The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (38 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

How did you come to that conclusion? Because it isn't what I said.

You’ve blamed both the EU because in your words “it happened on their watch” and you’ve blamed the UK because we were building cars of poor quality, when we weren’t out on strike of course. Which version of your events was it? You can’t have it both ways. They contradict each other.

 

---

[skybluetony176]

Not at all. I'm trying to work out what you are saying. It is you that is saying that UK car companies disappeared during our time in the EU.

Have I even given an opinion on why? It’s you with two different versions. Maybe you should try and work out what you’re saying first before you try and work out what I’m saying.

 

[Astute]

You’ve just spent god knows how many pages giving us your version of what the EU is. If you know what the EU is how can we be blindly staying?

Blind is brexit. No one knows what it is. Even the ruling party has two warring factions arguing over what it is. There is no brexit vision. It’s all fingers crossed empty rhetoric tag lines. That’s the very definition of blindly following something.

You blindly follow the EU knowing that it is crooked. And you constantly make excuses for it.

I have said that it could get tough to start with before getting better. It all depends on what sort of trade deal is made. Which part of that is blind?

 

[Astute]

Presumably German industry was a wreck pre Euro then?

But it wasn't. Not strong all over Germany but what country is?

Is that your full comment on the subject?

 

[Astute]

You’ve blamed both the EU because in your words “it happened on their watch” and you’ve blamed the UK because we were building cars of poor quality, when we weren’t out on strike of course. Which version of your events was it? You can’t have it both ways. They contradict each other.

OMG.

Look at what you said. You named the car makers. Then you said about how would it be better out of the EU.

Happened on their watch? Not a term I would use.

 

[skybluetony176]

But it wasn't. Not strong all over Germany but what country is?

Is that your full comment on the subject?

Nothing to do with recovering from being a divided country reunified when the infamous iron curtain fell?

 

[Astute]

Have I even given an opinion on why? It’s you with two different versions. Maybe you should try and work out what you’re saying first before you try and work out what I’m saying.

Wriggling out of what you have said again I see.

So did you...or did you not state about how manufacturing in the UK had reduced whilst we were in the EU?

Or were we not in the EU when it happened?

 

[Astute]

Nothing to do with recovering from being a divided country reunified when the infamous iron curtain fell?

So why wasn't their currency devalued well before joining the Euro instead of right before joining it?

 

[martcov]

So why wasn't their currency devalued well before joining the Euro instead of right before joining it?

It wasn’t devalued. The Euro was introduced at around 2 DM = 1 Euro ( e.g. 120 DM = 62,00 EURO). It was that before the actual coins came in and prices were marked in both before we had the currency. When was the devaluation according to you? French Francs were 6,6 ( I think ) per Euro.

 

[skybluetony176]

You blindly follow the EU knowing that it is crooked. And you constantly make excuses for it.

I have said that it could get tough to start with before getting better. It all depends on what sort of trade deal is made. Which part of that is blind?

I’m well aware of the short comings of the EU. I’ve pointed them out enough on here. You’ll say I haven’t but I’ve lost count the amount of times I have pointed out to you I have, sometimes that’s been multiple times on the same page you said that I haven’t. Happened 3 times just the other day. The one that sticks in my mind is where I linked 10 off my posts to one of your posts where I was saying exactly what you said I wasn’t saying. You still carried on claiming I hadn’t. Not sure how you’re supposed to debate against that.

So anyway. I’m not blindly following the EU. If I’m apparently making up excuses for their behaviour so once again you’re contradicting yourself in one paragraph. I can’t be both unaware of there short comings while making up excuses for something I’m not aware of.

Tough to start and then get better? 50 years Rees Mogg said yesterday didn’t he? I won’t see the apparent benefit then and neither will you. My children who are still at school won’t either, they’ll be getting ready for retirement at the point that benefit is apparently going to be delivered.

So what’s the point? I suspect our children will take us back in and with all the benefits Germany enjoys from the Euro. Although I suspect that we’ll have been relegated to a Greece or Italy by then so maybe not. Like Ricky Gervais said “did we really need a referendum to find out that the old hate the young”.

 

[martcov]

I haven't linked to those for ages. Whereas you have.

Sunday before last you did. 10:38 from memory.

 

[skybluetony176]

OMG.

Look at what you said. You named the car makers. Then you said about how would it be better out of the EU.

Happened on their watch? Not a term I would use.

Not the term you used but you did say basically the same thing, just used different words.

 

[martcov]

We were leaving before they broke their own rules and regulations to put Selmayr in the top position in the EU. So why do you always make out that it is why we are leaving?

Of course it is relevant. The EU is run to the benefit of Germany. Other countries overvalued their currency. Germany had an undervalued currency. So they started off with an advantage. And they have taken advantage of the situation. Now they are slowly taking over the top jobs or putting others in the top jobs where they have the same vision.

You are making things up now. Recently your theory was that Germany was bringing other weaker currencies in to keep the Euro weak and therefore making Germany competitive. Now you say the Germans devalued just before the Euro. So why are they doing both and how do you explain the strength of the Euro compared to its starting price?

 

[Astute]

It wasn’t devalued. The Euro was introduced at around 2 DM = 1 Euro ( e.g. 120 DM = 62,00 EURO). It was that before the actual coins came in and prices were marked in both before we had the currency. When was the devaluation according to you? French Francs were 6,6 ( I think ) per Euro.

I posted the link earlier showing you that it happened. Didn't you read it?

 

[Astute]

I’m well aware of the short comings of the EU. I’ve pointed them out enough on here. You’ll say I haven’t but I’ve lost count the amount of times I have pointed out to you I have, sometimes that’s been multiple times on the same page you said that I haven’t. Happened 3 times just the other day. The one that sticks in my mind is where I linked 10 off my posts to one of your posts where I was saying exactly what you said I wasn’t saying. You still carried on claiming I hadn’t. Not sure how you’re supposed to debate against that.

So anyway. I’m not blindly following the EU. If I’m apparently making up excuses for their behaviour so once again you’re contradicting yourself in one paragraph. I can’t be both unaware of there short comings while making up excuses for something I’m not aware of.

Tough to start and then get better? 50 years Rees Mogg said yesterday didn’t he? I won’t see the apparent benefit then and neither will you. My children who are still at school won’t either, they’ll be getting ready for retirement at the point that benefit is apparently going to be delivered.

So what’s the point? I suspect our children will take us back in and with all the benefits Germany enjoys from the Euro. Although I suspect that we’ll have been relegated to a Greece or Italy by then so maybe not. Like Ricky Gervais said “did we really need a referendum to find out that the old hate the young”.

You mean when you wanted a reply to a question you wouldn't come out but telling me to find your question?

Yeah OK.

 

[Astute]

Sunday before last you did. 10:38 from memory.

Bring up the link then.

10:38 from memory? Should be easy to find.

 

[Astute]

Not the term you used but you did say basically the same thing, just used different words.

OK. What did you mean by naming car makers that are no longer with us?

 

[Astute]

You are making things up now. Recently your theory was that Germany was bringing other weaker currencies in to keep the Euro weak and therefore making Germany competitive. Now you say the Germans devalued just before the Euro. So why are they doing both and how do you explain the strength of the Euro compared to its starting price?

So yes you have either ignored the links I have put up for you or are about to twist their words.

 

[Astute]

You are making things up now. Recently your theory was that Germany was bringing other weaker currencies in to keep the Euro weak and therefore making Germany competitive. Now you say the Germans devalued just before the Euro. So why are they doing both and how do you explain the strength of the Euro compared to its starting price?

Found one worded a bit better on behalf of Germany. Thought you would be happier with this one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/

 

[martcov]

I posted the link earlier showing you that it happened. Didn't you read it?

No. Which one was that?

 

[martcov]

Found one worded a bit better on behalf of Germany. Thought you would be happier with this one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/

Ok, now I read it. So there was no devaluation as such. The reunification took place more than 10 years before. There had been high unemployment as a result of the collapse of East German industry. I doubt whether that was deliberate just to gain a theoretical advantage in the Euro. The Euro had been planned for years. It was pushed through at a time of enthusiasm for the EU. If it did give an advantage, that was really coincidental. No one knew how long or if the German economy would recover to pre Reunification. It is cheap to turn the enthusiasm of people to make Europe more competitive and prosperous into an evil self centered conspiracy. Indeed there was a campaign to keep Germany out because they thought the Euro would be too weak. Germany has no, or very little oil. It is dependent on dollar oil imports. One reason that 45% of energy is now green energy. That may have given Germany an advantage.

 

[martcov]

Found one worded a bit better on behalf of Germany. Thought you would be happier with this one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/

Launch Of The Euro: Exchange Rates - Sterling and dollar slip at the

1,17 Dollar to - the same as on Launch day

1,12 GBP today’s rate - gbp could buy 1,42 Euro at launch The Euro is stronger than the pound. So any currency advantage for sales to uk has gone.

 

[skybluetony176]

You mean when you wanted a reply to a question you wouldn't come out but telling me to find your question?

Yeah OK.

Which was on the previous page. If you seriously need a link to go back one page there really isn’t any helping you.

 

[martcov]

Bring up the link then.

10:38 from memory? Should be easy to find.

Can’t find it. Must have been something else I was thinking about. There is no search for links. I’ll leave it at that, and assume you know what you posted.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK. What did you mean by naming car makers that are no longer with us?

It was an example of how we were once a manufacturing economy as apposed to the service economy we are now and why we are and will continue to be nett importers. Like I keep telling you. If you can’t keep up sit it out.

 

[Astute]

Found one worded a bit better on behalf of Germany. Thought you would be happier with this one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/

Ok, now I read it. So there was no devaluation as such. The reunification took place more than 10 years before. There had been high unemployment as a result of the collapse of East German industry. I doubt whether that was deliberate just to gain a theoretical advantage in the Euro. The Euro had been planned for years. It was pushed through at a time of enthusiasm for the EU. If it did give an advantage, that was really coincidental. No one knew how long or if the German economy would recover to pre Reunification. It is cheap to turn the enthusiasm of people to make Europe more competitive and prosperous into an evil self centered conspiracy. Indeed there was a campaign to keep Germany out because they thought the Euro would be too weak. Germany has no, or very little oil. It is dependent on dollar oil imports. One reason that 45% of energy is now green energy. That may have given Germany an advantage.

The German spin.

 

[Astute]

Can’t find it. Must have been something else I was thinking about. There is no search for links. I’ll leave it at that, and assume you know what you posted.

So I said I never posted what you said you knew I posted. So now you can't find what you said I posted although you knew what time I posted it you say I know what I posted so you will leave it at that?

:shifty:

 

[Astute]

It was an example of how we were once a manufacturing economy as apposed to the service economy we are now and why we are and will continue to be nett importers. Like I keep telling you. If you can’t keep up sit it out.

Yet i said why it all went wrong. What have you said on the matter?

So why did it all go wrong?

Why did you bring it up?

 

[skybluetony176]

Yet i said why it all went wrong. What have you said on the matter?

So why did it all go wrong?

Why did you bring it up?

You’ve given two versions of why it went wrong. Which one are you sticking to? Answer me that and I’ll give you my opinion. I’ve already told you why I brought it up. Do you need a link? You shouldn’t because it’s in the post you’ve just replied to but I know you struggle with this.

 

[martcov]

So I said I never posted what you said you knew I posted. So now you can't find what you said I posted although you knew what time I posted it you say I know what I posted so you will leave it at that?

:shifty:

It was another post about open doors..I think

 

[martcov]

The German spin.

Any facts to the contrary?

 

[Astute]

You’ve given two versions of why it went wrong. Which one are you sticking to? Answer me that and I’ll give you my opinion. I’ve already told you why I brought it up. Do you need a link? You shouldn’t because it’s in the post you’ve just replied to but I know you struggle with this.

Struggle with what?

Anyone with a couple of brain cells that work know that there isn't a single reason. It was several reasons. But strikes and poor quality were big reasons. Just like cheaper labour in the EU was another reason.

So what is the single reason you blame for it?

 

[Astute]

It was another post about open doors..I think

Show it then.

 

[Grendel]

Ok, now I read it. So there was no devaluation as such. The reunification took place more than 10 years before. There had been high unemployment as a result of the collapse of East German industry. I doubt whether that was deliberate just to gain a theoretical advantage in the Euro. The Euro had been planned for years. It was pushed through at a time of enthusiasm for the EU. If it did give an advantage, that was really coincidental. No one knew how long or if the German economy would recover to pre Reunification. It is cheap to turn the enthusiasm of people to make Europe more competitive and prosperous into an evil self centered conspiracy. Indeed there was a campaign to keep Germany out because they thought the Euro would be too weak. Germany has no, or very little oil. It is dependent on dollar oil imports. One reason that 45% of energy is now green energy. That may have given Germany an advantage.

Germany is a huge exporter to other European countries — by far the biggest. It’s should be obvious even to you what that means Im terms of benefitting from having a currency that’s the same value as a neighbour whose financially bust but still needs to import German goods.

 

[Astute]

Any facts to the contrary?

Just like you say the majority now want to stay in the EU. They don't. And many who voted remain have had enough of the tedious arguing being made by people like yourself.

The BBC is pro EU. Just about every article they produce is about how bad it will become. They point out everything that could go wrong. Yet look at the comments made after yet another article stating why we should stay in the EU. Even remainers have had enough of the remoaners.

UK driving licence 'may not be valid in EU' after no-deal Brexit - BBC News