The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (75 Viewers)

[Astute]

Sportsman‘s bet says we will pay. We may claim to have got concessions, but no way are we doing a runner.

Is that you saying that we won't get a trade deal as well?

 

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[Grendel]

Sportsman‘s bet says we will pay. We may claim to have got concessions, but no way are we doing a runner.

No agreement regarding this bill has been signed has it? Also a no deal will mean no transition period which is when a bulk of these payments are paid.

It would likely be an issue which the courts would have to decide

 

[martcov]

Is that you saying that we won't get a trade deal as well?

No.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is that you saying that we won't get a trade deal as well?

How you would take that from the above posts is bizarre to say the least.

 

[martcov]

No agreement regarding this bill has been signed has it? Also a no deal will mean no transition period which is when a bulk of these payments are paid.

It would likely be an issue which the courts would have to decide

How do you think the courts will decide on things we agreed to?

 

[Astute]

Where have I said we should leave without a deal? I think one will be struck but it will be down to the UK to make concessions (again).

May's embarrassing and empty words about being 'a bloody difficult woman' are all bluster.

You made out that we are trying too hard to get a deal.

Concessions will be made on both sides. And from the present position I would guess less made by the UK than EU. We have already moved a lot. Or there won't be a deal.

 

[Grendel]

How do you think the courts will decide on things we agreed to?

What did we agree to? There is not as far as I can see any firm agreement signed and also I repeat the bulk of the payments are in the transitional period - a period that will not exist if no deal will be achieved

 

[Astute]

How do you think the courts will decide on things we agreed to?

What courts are these?

If we are not a part of the EU the EU courts have no jurisdiction over us. And show me where there is a law that covers any payment.

 

[Sick Boy]

You made out that we are trying too hard to get a deal.

Concessions will be made on both sides. And from the present position I would guess less made by the UK than EU. We have already moved a lot. Or there won't be a deal.

I think you're going to be in for a surprise. The UK is effectively going to have to go back to the drawing board now that Chequers is dead

 

[Sick Boy]

What courts are these?

If we are not a part of the EU the EU courts have no jurisdiction over us. And show me where there is a law that covers any payment.

Are you on the wind up? Why would an EU court be involved?

 

[Astute]

Are you on the wind up? Why would an EU court be involved?

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit

 

[Sick Boy]

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit

You're the one made out an EU court would decide?

 

[martcov]

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit

Do you read your links? There is no 100bn bill for the reasons stated in the article. 39 billion is the agreed figure. That is the enforceable amount, not 100bn. If Grendel is right, the UK could save the transition period payments. I don’t think he is right, as I think we pay until the end of the current budget. But, maybe you can quote facts to show who is right?

 

[martcov]

What courts are these?

If we are not a part of the EU the EU courts have no jurisdiction over us. And show me where there is a law that covers any payment.

Show me a law which says international agreements only apply when it suits. We are covered by international courts not the EU in this dispute.

 

[martcov]

What courts are these?

If we are not a part of the EU the EU courts have no jurisdiction over us. And show me where there is a law that covers any payment.

EU 'will take Britain to The Hague if it does not pay £50bn Brexit bill'

 

[martcov]

You made out that we are trying too hard to get a deal.

Concessions will be made on both sides. And from the present position I would guess less made by the UK than EU. We have already moved a lot. Or there won't be a deal.

What are you on? 27 countries have just said no to our plan, and you think that puts us in a position to make less concessions than the 27? What do you think they are going to do now? Keep discussing until they decide to accept our plan?

 

[Grendel]

EU 'will take Britain to The Hague if it does not pay £50bn Brexit bill'

That’s a very old article. They would actually initially have to go through the Eu courts to establish validity. There is nothing actually I’ve seen in any European documentation that actually deals with the situation of liability on leaving. There would have to be proof that there is and a formula for calculation

The figure presently suggested shows an agreed arrangement born by negotiation and goodwill. If the uk believes the goodwill is breached it’s perfectly entitled to then refuse and the EU will have to prove through its own courts that legislation exists to cover payments. The uk will have to refuse to pay initially and ensure some legislative process exists to make it pay.

 

[martcov]

That’s a very old article. They would actually initially have to go through the Eu courts to establish validity. There is nothing actually I’ve seen in any European documentation that actually deals with the situation of liability on leaving. There would have to be proof that there is and a formula for calculation

The figure presently suggested shows an agreed arrangement born by negotiation and goodwill. If the uk believes the goodwill is breached it’s perfectly entitled to then refuse and the EU will have to prove through its own courts that legislation exists to cover payments. The uk will have to refuse to pay initially and ensure some legislative process exists to make it pay.

Depends. If they have agreed that they owe that money, then they owe that money. If there was a clause that some of it was dependent on getting a transition period, then that may be different. I suspect it will be a gray area. They had to agree to go forward to the trade deal. But, which court would say that the UK doesn’t owe any money after an agreement has been made? It is not a „bonus“ payment which only works if a deal is done.

 

[Grendel]

Depends. If they have agreed that they owe that money, then they owe that money. If there was a clause that some of it was dependent on getting a transition period, then that may be different. I suspect it will be a gray area. They had to agree to go forward to the trade deal. But, which court would say that the UK doesn’t owe any money after an agreement has been made? It is not a „bonus“ payment which only works if a deal is done.

It’s purely dependant on the articles and constitution of the Eu on leavers. Has any country ever left the Eu Mart?

 

[skybluetony176]

So your point is more expensive imports puts prices up but cheaper imports doesn't bring prices down?

Abolish the CAP, let food prices tumble - Institute of Economic Affairs

No protectionism in the EU?

Stephen Cadogan: Protectionism next threat for EU food and farm sector

No. Your assumption is that goods that all of a sudden become 30% cheaper at ports because a tariff is no longer applied is going to be a cost saving passed onto the consumer.

If you want an example of this look at the cost of petrol at the pump. When the barrel price of crude oil goes up prices at the pumps go up the same day. When it goes down prices don’t go down the same day if at all. Excuses are made like the wholesale price has to filter through and then when everyone has forgotten about it it gets swept under the carpet.

 

[skybluetony176]

What makes you think it would be worse?

The EU is all about protectionism. 28 countries have all had to agree in principle. So those who sell one thing want it protecting. That is a lot of things to protect in 28 countries. The UK would find it much easier alone than with 27 more countries to come to agreement.

I’ve been making this exact point to you on the other thread and you dismissed it instead trying to make out that a free trade deal with the EU hinges on BMW sales and the other 26 nations are irrelevant. Yet turn to another thread and you’re using my argument as a fact. More faces than Big Ben is the term that springs to mind.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s purely dependant on the articles and constitution of the Eu on leavers. Has any country ever left the Eu Mart?

This should be good. Are you saying a country has left or are you saying that a country hasn’t left? Still waiting for you to tell me what country has left on the other thread.

 

[martcov]

It’s purely dependant on the articles and constitution of the Eu on leavers. Has any country ever left the Eu Mart?

Didn’t you ask Tony that? Has any country ever presented a plan that has already been verbally rejected?

 

[martcov]

No. Your assumption is that goods that all of a sudden become 30% cheaper at ports because a tariff is no longer applied is going to be a cost saving passed onto the consumer.

If you want an example of this look at the cost of petrol at the pump. When the barrel price of crude oil goes up prices at the pumps go up the same day. When it goes down prices don’t go down the same day if at all. Excuses are made like the wholesale price has to filter through and then when everyone has forgotten about it it gets swept under the carpet.

Yes, my wholesale beer prices went up because of a barley shortage, then a hop shortage, then because of the lorry toll on the Autobahn.... funnily enough, I am still waiting for a reduction now that diesel is cheaper and there is no talk of hop or barley shortages.

 

[Evo1883]

Watching Theresa may now , she’s finished .
Talking tough but has Fannied around too long

 

[Evo1883]

What she has said is that the EU asked her to keep Northern Ireland in the single market which would mean the breakup of the uk .
Who the fuck would ask that of a country lol

Totalitarian clowns

 

[Astute]

You're the one made out an EU court would decide?

Lying again I see.

I asked the question saying how could they order us to pay anything when we wouldn't even be in their jurisdiction.

 

[Astute]

EU 'will take Britain to The Hague if it does not pay £50bn Brexit bill'

So we don't buy anything from the EU if they tried to go the legal route that their own lawyers have admitted won't work?

 

[Astute]

No. Your assumption is that goods that all of a sudden become 30% cheaper at ports because a tariff is no longer applied is going to be a cost saving passed onto the consumer.

If you want an example of this look at the cost of petrol at the pump. When the barrel price of crude oil goes up prices at the pumps go up the same day. When it goes down prices don’t go down the same day if at all. Excuses are made like the wholesale price has to filter through and then when everyone has forgotten about it it gets swept under the carpet.

So fuel prices only go up and never down?

 

[martcov]

What she has said is that the EU asked her to keep Northern Ireland in the single market which would mean the breakup of the uk .
Who the fuck would ask that of a country lol

Totalitarian clowns

We told the EU we were leaving. We don’t want to be in the single market. This means we are a third party state and that there will have to be a border by WTO rules. The easiest way to avoid that is to keep NI in the single market. That way there will be no border on the island of Ireland. A requisite of the GFA. May‘s problem is the DUP who won’t accept that. So the 8 DUP MPs are the problem and not the EU. She cannot drop them so she is on an impasse.

 

[Astute]

I’ve been making this exact point to you on the other thread and you dismissed it instead trying to make out that a free trade deal with the EU hinges on BMW sales and the other 26 nations are irrelevant. Yet turn to another thread and you’re using my argument as a fact. More faces than Big Ben is the term that springs to mind.

Maybe you do have many faces. I don't care.

Try finding your truthful face and do one thing. Point out where I said a trade deal was dependent on BMW sales. How about even pointing out where I mentioned BMW.

It is you that tried to make out that the German imports are only worth a very small % of a small %.

Now back to seeing if I can get you to understand.

German exports to the UK are about 1/3 of the whole total we export to the whole of the EU.

 

[martcov]

So we don't buy anything from the EU if they tried to go the legal route that their own lawyers have admitted won't work?

I have no idea what you are on about. Their own lawyers have admitted nothing of the sort. They have said that the 100 bn was not enforceable not the 39 bn.

 

[martcov]

Maybe you do have many faces. I don't care.

Try finding your truthful face and do one thing. Point out where I said a trade deal was dependent on BMW sales. How about even pointing out where I mentioned BMW.

It is you that tried to make out that the German imports are only worth a very small % of a small %.

Now back to seeing if I can get you to understand.

German exports to the UK are about 1/3 of the whole total we export to the whole of the EU.

12%.

 

[Astute]

We told the EU we were leaving. We don’t want to be in the single market. This means we are a third party state and that there will have to be a border by WTO rules. The easiest way to avoid that is to keep NI in the single market. That way there will be no border on the island of Ireland. A requisite of the GFA. May‘s problem is the DUP who won’t accept that. So the 8 DUP MPs are the problem and not the EU. She cannot drop them so she is on an impasse.

So we said we don't want to be in the single market?

I could name many things we don't want. Point out where we said what you said.

 

[Astute]

12%.

12% what?