The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (18 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

What gives the UK the high-level of bargain power to ensure that it is getting better terms that what are on offer now? Do you not think that these countries are going to be aware that Britain is going to be in need of signing trade deals and then try and take advantage?

What makes you think that some of those countries would not prefer to buy certain goods from the UK that the current EU deal insists they don't buy from the UK?

It's all ifs & buts, coulds & maybes. There are very few WILL happens in this scenario becuase there is no precedent.

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[SkyblueBazza]

no they're not.
You're not grasping this.
If two countries don't have a trade deal they deal under WTO terms.
If they agree a trade deal they trade under the terms of that deal.
We have free trade with the 27 members of the EU and trade with around 50 or 60 other countries through our membership of the EU, (don't know if they're free trade deals but trade deals none the less).
Now all of the countries involved are members of the WTO but they don't trade under WTO terms with each other because they have signed deals.

The day after we leave if there is no deal we will be trading under WTO terms with every other country. That means higher tariffs. It will hurt our economy, yes it will hurt theirs, but they will take the hit off trade with one country, we will take the hit off them all.
We can then start negotiating trade deals with every one else in the WTO, but it won't happen overnight as you seem to think.

Or they might all have the paperwork emailed over to them by 8am on Day 1 post Brexit, sign it (as it is the same deal but just with the UK) & email it back...which means business as usual & absolutely minimal disruption.

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[skybluetony176]

Watching Theresa may now , she’s finished .
Talking tough but has Fannied around too long

Watching her on the news last night I actually ended up feeling sorry for her. She looked like she was about to cry. I couldn’t work out if it was through anger, despair or a bit of both. Either way I felt sorry for her and the truth is whoever took this on as PM was always going to be between a rock and a hard place.

 

[skybluetony176]

So fuel prices only go up and never down?

Why do you continually try to put words in people’s mouths? That’s not what I said at all.

They only ever come down if there’s a long run on the falling price of crude oil. It’s always slow to happen, is never as much as a percentage and never linear. When the barrel price goes up the pump price always goes up the same day and by the same percentage, at least.

 

[Grendel]

This should be good. Are you saying a country has left or are you saying that a country hasn’t left? Still waiting for you to tell me what country has left on the other thread.

Greenland left you idiot

 

[SkyblueBazza]

...yeah, that is why the UK has been calling all of the shots in the 'negotiations' so far, isn't it?

Now ypu're being silly. Dictating to others is an EU thing...these are negotiations. And the latest suggestion of dictating? Back at the beginning of August there were many reporting cracks in the EU stance on Brexit & various leaders were saying things that didn't fit with the EU negotiating position. Since then they have magically come to a united front on Brexit & publically appear non-plussed by it.

This week there have been interesting articles on various channels...covering the fears the 1. French vintners, the 2. Spanish fruit growers, various 3. EU hauliers, are experiencing.

1. & 2. Resticted flow of product to one of if not their biggest single export market
3. Currently EU hauliers come here & can apparently (I never knew this) carry out 3 addition trips whilst in the UK (at a lower wage, & with a tank full of much cheaper fuel). Contentious point...geezer on the radio said it is common knowledge in the trade that they often do many more than 3 (= pinching our trucker's jobs)

There is a lot more to this EU design than meets the eye in many ways.

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[clint van damme]

Or they might all have the paperwork emailed over to them by 8am on Day 1 post Brexit, sign it (as it is the same deal but just with the UK) & email it back...which means business as usual & absolutely minimal disruption.

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It's a nice idea. But would you give the same trade deal to 1 country that you give to a trading block of 27?

And if you were the 27, would you be kissed off if they did?

 

[martcov]

So we said we don't want to be in the single market?

I could name many things we don't want. Point out where we said what you said.

May has categorically said that. What she offers was a common rule book which would not be 100% binding and would allow for other trade deals.

Don’t tell me that you hadn’t realised that we don’t want to be in the single market?

 

[martcov]

Now ypu're being silly. Dictating to others is an EU thing...these are negotiations. And the latest suggestion of dictating? Back at the beginning of August there were many reporting cracks in the EU stance on Brexit & various leaders were saying things that didn't fit with the EU negotiating position. Since then they have magically come to a united front on Brexit & publically appear non-plussed by it.

This week there have been interesting articles on various channels...covering the fears the 1. French vintners, the 2. Spanish fruit growers, various 3. EU hauliers, are experiencing.

1. & 2. Resticted flow of product to one of if not their biggest single export market
3. Currently EU hauliers come here & can apparently (I never knew this) carry out 3 addition trips whilst in the UK (at a lower wage, & with a tank full of much cheaper fuel). Contentious point...geezer on the radio said it is common knowledge in the trade that they often do many more than 3 (= pinching our trucker's jobs)

There is a lot more to this EU design than meets the eye in many ways.

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The EU has asked the UK to work within the agreed rules of the SM. We helped write these rules. How is the EU dictating? The alternative would be 27 countries adapting to what we want. Basically what May is asking for and which won’t happen,

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It's a nice idea. But would you give the same trade deal to 1 country that you give to a trading block of 27?

And if you were the 27, would you be kissed off if they did?

It depends what deal was offered. We are a major arms manufacturer, at the forefront of technology & life sciences. There will be mileage in those three alone to help smooth deals

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[skybluetony176]

Maybe you do have many faces. I don't care.

Try finding your truthful face and do one thing. Point out where I said a trade deal was dependent on BMW sales. How about even pointing out where I mentioned BMW.

It is you that tried to make out that the German imports are only worth a very small % of a small %.

Now back to seeing if I can get you to understand.

German exports to the UK are about 1/3 of the whole total we export to the whole of the EU.

Ok you didn’t specifically say BMW you were talking about the German car manufacturing industry as a whole but a little bit of poetic license aside the point stands.

We’re talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of 4%. If Grendull is correct profit is another percentage you have to factor in.

The EU imports into U.K. as a whole represents 4% of all EU imports, I think you’re trying to say that 33% of that is Germany products (let’s assume that is correct for the sake of it) so of my head 30% of 4% is around 1.3%ish, any data I can find on what percentage of Germany’s exports are from the motor industry is 12-15%, again of the top of my head 15% of 1.3% is about 0.20%. We’ll leave Grendulls fact about profit out of the equation even though that will reduce the amount more but on that basis alone you’re suggesting that the EU should rip up the single market to offer us a free trade deal based on 0.20% of the trade they do so Germany can still sell cars on the current footing into the U.K. What makes you think that the other 26 members are going to vote for the abandonment of the single market on that basis for the sake of one industry of one member? The 26 all have a power of veto I’ll remind you and only one has to use it.

 

[clint van damme]

It depends what deal was offered. We are a major arms manufacturer, at the forefront of technology & life sciences. There will be mileage in those three alone to help smooth deals

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Just had a quick look and will look into it further but apparently we can only sign roll over deals once the withdrawal agreement with th EU has been signed and the we have to have all deals in place and signed off by the end of March.

So it looks like they have us over a barrel. I'm not sure why they're allowed to have us over a barrel but I'll look into it more later when I get chance.

 

[Grendel]

Ok you didn’t specifically say BMW you were talking about the German car manufacturing industry as a whole but a little bit of poetic license aside the point stands.

We’re talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of 4%. If Grendull is correct profit is another percentage you have to factor in.

The EU imports into U.K. as a whole represents 4% of all EU imports, I think you’re trying to say that 33% of that is Germany products (let’s assume that is correct for the sake of it) so of my head 30% of 4% is around 1.3%ish, any data I can find on what percentage of Germany’s exports are from the motor industry is 12-15%, again of the top of my head 15% of 1.3% is about 0.20%. We’ll leave Grendulls fact about profit out of the equation even though that will reduce the amount more but on that basis alone you’re suggesting that the EU should rip up the single market to offer us a free trade deal based on 0.20% of the trade they do so Germany can still sell cars on the current footing into the U.K. What makes you think that the other 26 members are going to vote for the abandonment of the single market on that basis for the sake of one industry of one member? The 26 all have a power of veto I’ll remind you and only one has to use it.

You weren’t even aware Greenland left the Eu and it’s 27 not 26 you blithering idiot

 

[Evo1883]

We told the EU we were leaving. We don’t want to be in the single market. This means we are a third party state and that there will have to be a border by WTO rules. The easiest way to avoid that is to keep NI in the single market. That way there will be no border on the island of Ireland. A requisite of the GFA. May‘s problem is the DUP who won’t accept that. So the 8 DUP MPs are the problem and not the EU. She cannot drop them so she is on an impasse.

The EU don’t tell us what we do with our land , simple.
If the people of Northern Ireland don’t want a border then we don’t have a border

I the EU want to have a border they can control it and also control the violence if it re erupts

 

[martcov]

It depends what deal was offered. We are a major arms manufacturer, at the forefront of technology & life sciences. There will be mileage in those three alone to help smooth deals

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You weren’t even aware Greenland left the Eu and it’s 27 not 26 you blithering idiot

He is referring to the EU minus UK and minus Germany as they are the one country expected to lose out from car sales. Blithering idiot. Greenland is not a fully independent country anyway. A bit of a special case.

 

[martcov]

The EU don’t tell us what we do with our land , simple.
If the people of Northern Ireland don’t want a border then we don’t have a border

It is would be the WTO insisting on a border if we deal under WTO terms. Ireland and the EU are also party to the GFA. NI doesn’t decide on policy for the whole of Ireland. You talk about totalitarian...

 

[Evo1883]

It is would be the WTO insisting on a border if we deal under WTO terms. Ireland and the EU are also party to the GFA. NI doesn’t decide on policy for the whole of Ireland. You talk about totalitarian...

I never said they did , I added a point afterwards which was missed .
The EU can finance and control any border , they can also deal with any violence that may happen along with it .
After all they want it

All these things will add to more Anti EU sentiment , they are playing dangerous games

 

[martcov]

I never said they did , I added a point afterwards which was missed .
The EU can finance and control any border , they can also deal with any violence that may happen along with it .
After all they want it

All these things will add to more Anti EU sentiment , they are playing dangerous games

No. We are leaving. We don’t want to be in the single market. We want to trade under WTO rules. There will be a border, otherwise we cannot trade under WTO rules. We will pay for it and be hated for it. Do you honestly think that Irish people will blame the EU? 800 years of being ruled, at least in part, by Britain. They know who caused this mess and you can try and deflect to the EU, but the DUP would take a border to preserve their present status for a few more years. Most people on the island of Ireland do not want a border initiated by a decision taken by voters on the British mainland. NI is remain. Respect their decision. The UK asks for respect, but gives none.

 

[skybluetony176]

Greenland left you idiot

Left the EEC not the EU you idiot. Possibly a double idiot because I’m pretty sure Greenland isn’t a country it’s an overseas territory of Denmark.

 

[skybluetony176]

You weren’t even aware Greenland left the Eu and it’s 27 not 26 you blithering idiot

Greenland were never even in the EU you blithering idiot. 26 obviously doesn’t cover Germany. I’m clearly talking about the other 26 members voting in favour of 1 member for the benefit of 0.2% of the EU’s exports. Maybe you can manage 26+1 without my assistance.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Who is us BTW? He spoke out against liars who misled people, not the people of the UK. Are you a liar trying to mislead people? Why should you count yourself as part of „us“ otherwise? Does it hurt being called a liar by a president representing millions?

Hahaha. With every one of your EU fawning posts you reveal how little you understand the British people.

Virtually no one here gives a toss what a pipsqueak politician like Macron says. Come to think of it, there’s not too many in France who care either.

The arrogant lecturing from people like him, Juncker and Tusk are one of the reasons we voted to leave the EU cesspit.

And we will leave martclegg.

 

[djr8369]

Ok you didn’t specifically say BMW you were talking about the German car manufacturing industry as a whole but a little bit of poetic license aside the point stands.

We’re talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of 4%. If Grendull is correct profit is another percentage you have to factor in.

The EU imports into U.K. as a whole represents 4% of all EU imports, I think you’re trying to say that 33% of that is Germany products (let’s assume that is correct for the sake of it) so of my head 30% of 4% is around 1.3%ish, any data I can find on what percentage of Germany’s exports are from the motor industry is 12-15%, again of the top of my head 15% of 1.3% is about 0.20%. We’ll leave Grendulls fact about profit out of the equation even though that will reduce the amount more but on that basis alone you’re suggesting that the EU should rip up the single market to offer us a free trade deal based on 0.20% of the trade they do so Germany can still sell cars on the current footing into the U.K. What makes you think that the other 26 members are going to vote for the abandonment of the single market on that basis for the sake of one industry of one member? The 26 all have a power of veto I’ll remind you and only one has to use it.

It beggars belief doesn’t it? How can so many stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to understand basic concepts like this? I despair.


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[djr8369]

Hahaha. With every one of your EU fawning posts you reveal how little you understand the British people.

Virtually no one here gives a toss what a pipsqueak politician like Macron says. Come to think of it, there’s not too many in France who care either.

The arrogant lecturing from people like him, Juncker and Tusk are one of the reasons we voted to leave the EU cesspit.

And we will leave martclegg.

“Arrogant lecturing” they are trying to point out to the British people that the Tory party is being held to ransom by an extreme minority whose only interest is their own advancement and are already plotting to sell our public services to American corporations. And they call the people who want to stop Brexit “traitors”.



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[Captain Dart]

Just watching the news and chequers is dead in the water. The unsolvable riddle continues. Who’d have thought Danny Dyer would be correct.

Only Danny Dyer.

Hahaha. With every one of your EU fawning posts you reveal how little you understand the British people.

Virtually no one here gives a toss what a pipsqueak politician like Macron says. Come to think of it, there’s not too many in France who care either.

The arrogant lecturing from people like him, Juncker and Tusk are one of the reasons we voted to leave the EU cesspit.

And we will leave martclegg.

The more Barnier & Tusk et al talk and posture tough the more it hardens my attitude.

I think that is pretty much in tune with majority British attitude.

 

[Astute]

Why do you continually try to put words in people’s mouths? That’s not what I said at all.

They only ever come down if there’s a long run on the falling price of crude oil. It’s always slow to happen, is never as much as a percentage and never linear. When the barrel price goes up the pump price always goes up the same day and by the same percentage, at least.

It isn't me putting words into your mouth. It is questioning how correct it is that someone has said. Then that same old line comes out instead of admitting that false information has come out yet again.

 

[Grendel]

Left the EEC not the EU you idiot. Possibly a double idiot because I’m pretty sure Greenland isn’t a country it’s an overseas territory of Denmark.

So the EEC isn’t the Eu Tony? Is that the stance now Tony?

It also is not now an overseas territory of Denmark wiki man

 

[Astute]

It's a nice idea. But would you give the same trade deal to 1 country that you give to a trading block of 27?

And if you were the 27, would you be kissed off if they did?

Would you find it easier to make a trade deal with 27 countries that all want to protect their best industries or just one country?

 

[skybluetony176]

So the EEC isn’t the Eu Tony? Is that the stance now Tony?

It also is not now an overseas territory of Denmark wiki man

You tell me. You’re the one making it up as you go along.

What is it then?

 

[Astute]

May has categorically said that. What she offers was a common rule book which would not be 100% binding and would allow for other trade deals.

Don’t tell me that you hadn’t realised that we don’t want to be in the single market?

The question was when we voted. So to twist it you move onto a different subject. How unusual.

 

[Astute]

The EU has asked the UK to work within the agreed rules of the SM. We helped write these rules. How is the EU dictating? The alternative would be 27 countries adapting to what we want. Basically what May is asking for and which won’t happen,

So it has nothing to do with a trade deal now?

 

[skybluetony176]

It beggars belief doesn’t it? How can so many stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to understand basic concepts like this? I despair.


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It’s economics at a very basic level. I’m not sure how some people survive in the real world.

 

[Grendel]

You tell me. You’re the one making it up as you go along.

What is it then?

Well Tony you said this is the second referendum so I assume not

 

[clint van damme]

Would you find it easier to make a trade deal with 27 countries that all want to protect their best industries or just one country?

I didn't say it wouldn't be easier, I pointed out the timescales in an earlier post and said our trade deals should be able to be negotiated more quickly.
I said I doubt the terms wouldn't be as favourable.

 

[Grendel]

Would you find it easier to make a trade deal with 27 countries that all want to protect their best industries or just one country?

Tony believes it’s 26 countries

 

[Evo1883]

German manufacturing at a 2 year low

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