Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No they are on point, he is identifying problems with the EU, which you and mart seem to be blind to for some reason.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (33 Viewers)
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
And plenty are blind to the problems with Brexit and would proceed with it even if it destroyed the country.
The EU is not the problem. Brexit is, and the future of post Brexit Britain. The EU will continue to evolve. 27 countries will take a shared hit, but Britain is going it alone.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How am I blind to them? I’ve acknowledged that it’s a problem in politics full stop. I haven’t excluded the EU from that and have in fact posted links just today about the problems happening in the EU. Something by the way Astute by his own admission is oblivious to. He seems to think that when we leave the EU we’ll be entering a world of pure, clean, whiter than white brand of U.K. politics. It’s bollocks. Our MP’s are just as bad and our top civil servants are equally as unelected. People like Alistair Campbell has passed him by, scandals like cash for questions and spurious expense claims have also passed him by. He’s clueless and needs educating on the political class and the way it operates. He thinks that the EU is the exception when it’s very much the rule. All I’ve done is point that out to him. That’s not blind to the EU, that’s acknowledging that they’re all as bad as each other. I bet he still doesn’t know who Britain’s top civil servant is now.
Constantly saying let’s get on with it, no feet dragging, trade deals etc. The leavers want it as quickly as possible before the younger generation gets to vote in an election or second referendum. Leavers are dying at twice the rate of remainers. And, no we are not going to change to leavers automatically as we get older. That’s wishful thinking on your part. But the younger generation wants a future with Europe. Promises of deregulation and tax breaks for companies are not what young people prioritise. Never was.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
you're the one who is happy to see the UK economy go over a cliff edge but seem happy as long as the EUs does as well. I'm not sure how been so blasé about that outcome can be considered sticking up for the UK.
I have said several times I will be delighted to be wrong, a thriving UK economy is much more beneficial to me and my future plans than a basket case, unfortunately if there is no deal I can only see a bad outcome.
If I'm wrong I will be the first on here to admit it and say fair play to those who voted leave. Equally, if it goes wrong, leave voters will be to blame, no one else, and I'll say so.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Many European countries are listed as the worse for animal welfare
The Eu law is bollocks. It’s ignored and laughed at in practically every country.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Again, I haven’t argued otherwise. You keep ignoring that a vote has taken place in this country that dismisses that animals are sentient beings. You’re putting political gain before your apparent morals on this subject. That’s not very moralistic at all. We’re leaving the EU in case you missed it. We have no grounds to dictate what happens in the EU as we’ve lost our voice as you wanted and voted. You do have a voice in U.K. politics though and given the way you’ve talked about animal rights in the past I would have thought that this action by the conservatives would more important to you than using a look over there tactic. But yet here we are. Try putting your morals first as you’ve demonstrated in the past and maybe I’ll take you seriously on this.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
evolve = slowly crumble
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There has not been a vote to that effect Tony
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
He is ignoring the subtle message that the powers that be in the EU NOT the 27 have deemed their cozy club (?) MUST be protected at all costs...even if their citizens pay a heavy price...similar arguments he has cast himself about those championing Brexit. There is also a chance it indicates no desire to reform in any way. Selmayr will set the agenda moving forward unless there is a dramatic shift in the EU elections. There will be no compromise except in the face of failure from him.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Whether it crumbles or not is one for another day.
It's the 'evolve' thing. The EU is hell bent on evolving into something that many, who care enough to go vote when the chance arose, do not agree with. They wish to evolve in a different direction they see as more favourable for the longer term good of the UK.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You clearly went to the same what’s going on in the country school as astute The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit
More crap. More Faragisms. Now certain people in the EU are protecting the cozy Brussels club. No evidence. Nothing drastic happened which proves that. Just Bazza spewing crap which he read in a crap newspaper or on a Brexit Twitter account. Selmayr is there to get things moving. Juncker promised wide ranging reforms and has got Selmayr to a position to drive the EU forward through Brexit and the non EU migration crisis after he himself has gone. People don’t doubt Selmayr’s work ethic, multi lingual capability, legal experience and knowledge of how the EU functions and his network of contacts. He was rushed into position, but he was well qualified anyway. The idea is that Selmayr succeeds. Brexit is a choice of the U.K. and it is up to the U.K. how that pans out. Latest rumour is that Selmayr wants the EU ambassador’s job in London. Which would satisfy his critics.
Many know naff all about the EU and voted according to what they had been told by unscrupulous self interested spivs, dodgy businessmen and hedge fund owners or managers. They still spew the cliches as if they are true, although Brexit is not what it was made out to be.
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Which is actually crumbling? The EU strengthening it’s exterior borders and working together to sort out the migration problem? Or the U.K. led by a PM trying to sell the EU a plan that they don’t want, and to convince the Americans to invest in a non EU offshore island at a special offer price of „2% off“ with deregulation thrown in?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No Tony and Mart that has widely been dismissed as fake news as they did not vote at all. They are committed to creatimg separate legislation which will offer greater protection and exclude some of the vile practices adopted by the EU
Even CWF have welcomed the stance of the government on this one.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
CIWF is one of the organisations that started the online campaign against this. Gove then made a statement in Parliament last year which CIWF welcomed. However since then this has happened Government must not drop the Sentience Bill | Compassion in World Farming
You seem very out of the loop on how this is progressing. Or maybe that should be regressing.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That article proves the government has not voted to remove animal sentience Tony - they have not had a vote to remove it. They have removed an aspect of legislation from the EU act. The government has repeatedly re-arfimmed its commitment on this issue when separate legislation is created. Gove is committed to this and subsequent announcements (a law which mandates CCTV in slaughterhouses and another to ban puppy farms as well as the banning of imports of dubious EU animal farming practices) confirms this stance
The nearer we get to Brexit, the more aggressive your posts become, you just need to accept defeat and your cliquey little club in Brussels will lose £10 billion a year soon so they better re evaluate their budgets and trim their costs !
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
“Our Director of Campaigns, Emma Slawinski,said: “The British public have been told numerous times that animal welfare standards will be maintained or improved as we leave the EU. They will be dismayed to hear the suggestion that there is a delay in incorporating the sentience principal into UK law.
“The government must take account of the strength of public support on maintaining this important legal principle post-Brexit. We urge them to proceed with the full Bill."
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not sure Gove is as committed as you seem to think he is. CIWF are that concerned about his “commitment” they’ve started a petition on it. Here’s an article about it with a link to said petition. Animal welfare campaigners fear backtrack on pledge to ban live exports after Brexit
You can sign it while you’re there. Or not, if you’re so sure that you can take Gove at his word.
Gove backtracks on pledge to end exports of live animals for slaughter
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Have you read the commission statement as to why they want they want the legislation delayed Tony?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Live exports are allowed as part of the Eu sentient definition Tony.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Don’t sign the petition then. I’m sure your faith in Gove isn’t misplaced. It’s not like he has a history in backtracking. Much.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
But sentience is your issue Tony and live exports in unsustainable cages happens all across Europe. Anyway Tony surely according to you exporting anything - let alone livestock - will be virtually impossible post Brexit won’t it?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not sure how this is about me. You’re the one expecting animal welfare to improve in this country post brexit based on the word of Gove. You brought CIWF into it on the assumption that they were backing Gove. When you look at what they’ve actually said they’ve said that they welcomed an announcement that he made in the commons in 2017, at which point you’ve stuck your fingers in your ears and gone la la la while blissfully ignoring what a man with a history of backtracking has said since and the concerns since of CIWF and others. You’ve made it pretty clear that you’re going to give the government a free pass on this one for the sake of Brexit while pointing to the EU as a distraction. Situation normal.
No. Not to Astute for example, but Bazza cannot make a Post without a a faragism or cliche in it. Other people can say something pro Brexit, when they are sober, and I don’t get angry. It is just the sheer stupidity of his comments that gets annoying.
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
You couldn't make this shit up, at least she his her skill as a mathematician to fall back on.........Watch: Diane Abbott’s BBC bias gaffe | Coffee House
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
"unscrupulous self interested spivs, dodgy businessmen and hedge fund owners or managers. They still spew the cliches as if they are true"
If you add unelected bureaucrats to that sentence you would be defining M.E.P's
If you add unelected bureaucrats to that sentence you would be defining M.E.P's
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Not much different British MPs and probaby MPs across the world.
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
Of course, so we can't just keep saying that anyone who voted for Brexit was an idiot because they believed lies told by the political elite, they all do it, on both sides. The vote leave was an absolute protest vote delivered by people who have long felt left behind and disconnected to the two major parties in this country, we can't keep allowing those, (who still can't get over the fact it happened), to get away with using this as a 'get out clause' that they are just stupid, mislead, racist, uneducated and thick. The political establishment got exactly what it deserved.