skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What about the stuff we send to the EU for JIT? Are those jobs going to be lost? If as you say it will create jobs from goods coming in the opposite effect is it loses jobs from goods going out.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (377 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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What about the stuff we send to the EU for JIT? Are those jobs going to be lost? If as you say it will create jobs from goods coming in the opposite effect is it loses jobs from goods going out.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Boris used 1066 in his Peston interview. They’re all at it.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I don't think you understand the concept of Jingoism, it is not the same as the Dunkirk spirit.
Jingoism was extreme patriotism, in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy, the Dunkirk spirit is about facing adversity and winning through in the end.
If anyone is following a Jingoistic policy it is the EU (well Jingo lite anyway). The seasoned practitioners are Donald's USA and Vladimir's Russia
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No one here is saying things like that. No one is saying the Luftwaffe should be brought in. The press here just mention about the Tory civil war and Brexit chaos. More amazement at the whole scenario than a wartime mentality. People here find it all hard to understand. Why on earth would you want internal EU borders or want to scrap freedom of movement? Hard to fathom.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
So that’s your definition of the Dunkirk Spirit is it?
‘‘Plucky Brits fighting back, by retreating’’.
Shame on you, I invite you to withdraw that comment.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It's referencing battles from a war, of course it's jingoistic. There's nothing superior about the British compared to other European countries in relation to facing up to adversity.
Let's us not forget that in both world wars, the British had multiple nationalities fighting side by side with them.
No. That was the truth. It was counted as a major victory as it preserved up to 300000 soldiers lives. Strategic withdrawal. Not a bunch of Brexiters equating trade negotiations with the risk of 300000 lives. Disgusting comparison. We are not at war. Our expeditionary Force is not cut off and we have decided, without good cause, to leave an institution set up by former enemies partly to avoid us ever landing in the position of Dunkirk again. You don’t get it do you? Any Tory or Faragist comparing Brexit to Dunkirk, or even 1066, needs their head looking at.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should adopt the views of Gunter Oettinger who once said that it’s unfortunate Germany do not have wars any more.
'who once said'..... maybe, and in what context? Whatever. Nothing to do with what we are talking about. No one here is calling the UK the enemy and relating the Brexit negotiations to WW1 or WW2 battles. Let's stick to the facts. We have yet to agree on how best to leave the EU. After 2 years! Talks of 1066 and WW2 are just distractions to appeal to the Brexit base, and to disguise the fact that Brexit is now a corpse. We don't even know who is going to lead us out of the EU. BinBrexit.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
You have no evidence to prove you right either! There is nothing but speculation & opinion.
Flippant yes, ignorant or burying head? No
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
No it is scheduled in to leave for it's destinstion earlier ffs. So it doesn't take any longer to make or assemble stuff except in a few cases. I will concede that in a few cases.
However by recognising that the 'door swings both ways' ypu have made great progress Tony. Well done!
Now, trawl back over many of your own posts or those ypu have liked by others & apply the same logic & you might appreciate where some of us are coming from on the issue at large!!!
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I think he means surviving with view to fight another day!
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SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Squirm.
Nice try but independent of Brexit, Hammond or Farage, your definition of the Dunkirk Spirit is ‘Plucky Brits fighting back, by retreating’. Simple as that, you said it.
Another one in the hundreds of jaundiced posts in which you ridicule this country on a daily basis.
Many including me regard the UK as the greatest place on earth to live in. Have you got anything good to say about it you bitter little loser?
I sure they do. I left when Coventry collapsed as the government stopped subsidies to the „lame duck“ car industry. At the time. Now things are better, but the UK is leaving a trade bloc of 500 million. Trump has just reconfirmed a trade bloc of 500 million.
How clever is that? No benefits on the horizon, but plenty of uncertainty.
Yes, I have got something good to say about the UK. We were doing great in the EU. We are now putting the greatest place on earth, in many people’s view ( I can imagine people in other countries may think the same about their country), at economic risk without knowing how we are leaving the EU, or having any tangible benefits lined up. Just promises of some future, as of yet, undefined benefits. People putting out wartime comparisons, which you buy, to cover for the Tories complete mishandling of Brexit. From promising to act on the „advisory referendum“ ( a contradiction) in order not to have a qualified majority, to allowing the dark money second leave campaign to lie to and cheat the electorate, to not having a workable solution to leaving, two years after the vote.
I am not squirming. Using Dunkirk, Churchill, 1066 etc to awaken a sense of pride to cover absolute failure appalls me. But, you buy this crap and ignore the failure of Brexit.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Dunkirk and the UK being the greatest place on earth have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, I've no concrete proof, but I've linked an article from the policy director of UK shipping.
I've linked a government article, so I've tried to present an argument, you've shown me nothing to contradict it.
2.6 million lorries a year taking ten minutes longer each to process, (if it is 10 minutes). It's quite easy to surmise that it will cause issues. Honda think it will cost them £850,000 a year. That's just one company. BMW are bringing their annual shut down forward so they can see how supply chains are affected, if you're ignoring that then yes, you are burying your head in the sand.
Which proves the strategy of distraction is working.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I’ve just received this morning at work an arrival notification for a shipment we have arriving from outside the EU. The ship arrives on 05/10/2018 and the container on it is scheduled to be unpacked on the 09/10/2018 assuming it doesn’t get pulled by customs. It takes 12-18hours give or take to unload a container ship so basically it’s 3 days until it can be emptied. It’s a mix load container (not everything in the container is for us so it was loaded with other goods at port that also wasn’t a full load container) so there’s a bit of extra paperwork as each consignment in the container has to be cleared before the container is released for unloading and our goods are haz/chem so again extra paperwork. So going by the schedule that’s 3 days at dockside. Could happen quicker but equally if it gets pulled it will take longer and it only takes one consignment in the container to be pulled and the whole container is pulled and quarantined by customs.
Now compare that with lorries crossing the channel. I bet the majority of trailers are mixed load, certainly hazardous goods go by road then ferry and you can mix hazardous goods of one category with hazardous goods of another category (as long as its within IMDG guidelines) and hazardous goods can be mixed with non hazardous goods. So already 10 minutes in looking ambitious to me based on my own experience. Quickest clearance would be a non hazardous full load (ie the trailer has one consignment only on it, not a number of consignments) and even then I can’t see it. Maybe if it’s express bills rather than full bills but even then it’s hopeful in my opinion.
Like you say though 2.6M lorries at 10 minuets each. That’s a hell of a lot of man hours to find.
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An interesting read here
"Why does the British elite, and not the French and German ones, believe they do not need the EU? The first reason is their rose-tinted view of Britain’s history. There is always a disjuncture between the way a country sees itself and how others perceive it, but this disjuncture is especially large in Britain’s case. Britain did not face the need to regain legitimacy in the same way as Germany did after the war, but there are more similarities than most Britons are prepared to admit. Too many see Britain as a beacon of democracy and liberty. Too few are aware that the country’s colonial history means that much of the rest of the world is more ambivalent – and that Britain is less trusted and admired – than they imagine."
"The second reason for the hostility, or at least ambivalence, of the British elite to the EU is that they always resented Britain playing second fiddle to the Franco-German axis. Not joining the EU until 1973 meant that the EU always looked like a Franco-German project that privileged French and German interests to the detriment of those of the other member-states, especially Britain. In short, the British have never been able to wholeheartedly support a European project that they were not the leaders of. And it is this, as much as an aversion to sharing sovereignty, that explains the depth of antipathy to the EU."
"Britain’s sense of economic invulnerability is even more puzzling. Why does a country that is significantly poorer than Germany, with far fewer internationally competitive industries and greater dependence on foreign capital and managerial expertise, believe it can afford to quit the single market? After all, the Germans would see such a move as gratuitous economic self-harm. Britain’s economic performance is no better than France’s and on some important measures – not least productivity – far worse. Yet nobody from France’s political mainstream seriously entertains the idea that French business or the French economy would benefit from leaving the EU."
"Why does the British elite, and not the French and German ones, believe they do not need the EU? The first reason is their rose-tinted view of Britain’s history. There is always a disjuncture between the way a country sees itself and how others perceive it, but this disjuncture is especially large in Britain’s case. Britain did not face the need to regain legitimacy in the same way as Germany did after the war, but there are more similarities than most Britons are prepared to admit. Too many see Britain as a beacon of democracy and liberty. Too few are aware that the country’s colonial history means that much of the rest of the world is more ambivalent – and that Britain is less trusted and admired – than they imagine."
"The second reason for the hostility, or at least ambivalence, of the British elite to the EU is that they always resented Britain playing second fiddle to the Franco-German axis. Not joining the EU until 1973 meant that the EU always looked like a Franco-German project that privileged French and German interests to the detriment of those of the other member-states, especially Britain. In short, the British have never been able to wholeheartedly support a European project that they were not the leaders of. And it is this, as much as an aversion to sharing sovereignty, that explains the depth of antipathy to the EU."
"Britain’s sense of economic invulnerability is even more puzzling. Why does a country that is significantly poorer than Germany, with far fewer internationally competitive industries and greater dependence on foreign capital and managerial expertise, believe it can afford to quit the single market? After all, the Germans would see such a move as gratuitous economic self-harm. Britain’s economic performance is no better than France’s and on some important measures – not least productivity – far worse. Yet nobody from France’s political mainstream seriously entertains the idea that French business or the French economy would benefit from leaving the EU."
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Work it out....or take your guess and say how bad it will be for the UK. It is all you ever do.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Full employment?
Yeah OK.
We don't have full employment. What we do have is a lot of low paid work.
You said they would be 5% more expensive and your firm would buy local.
If people leave poorly paid employment for better jobs ( if they are capable), then who replaces them? We have full employment.
Brexit is supposed to show benefits. Where are the benefits? Don’t guess the benefits, just come out with the facts. You try and say how easy peasy Brexit is, and when anyone points out there may be disadvantages that you haven’t thought about, you just say they are trying to knock the UK. Half the UK don’t want Brexit. If there were a referendum today remain would have a slight advantage... but as Grendel pointed out, it is too close to call. Whatever. Half the country would vote against it if there were a referendum today. No one is really that bothered about your latest bogey man. He doesn’t come into play until we get past the political negotiations. People want to see what benefits Brexit will bring.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
In other words you don’t know. Here’s a couple of big ones of the top of my head. The workers at the Airbus wing factory in Wales, the workers at the Mini crankshaft factory in Warwickshire. All part of a JIT manufacturing process. The Mini crankshaft is a good example of the single market, cast in France, shipped to Warwickshire for milling and drilling, shipped to Germany to be fitted in an engine and then shipped to Oxford to be fitted into a car. If the car is then sold in the EU that crankshaft will in effect have been through customs four times, four tariffs and four delays that even at the optimistic 10 minutes equates to 40 minutes. Time is money and all that.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Here’s some other stories that have probably passed you by Astute.
EU car manufacturers already in talks about rejecting British-made parts because of Brexit, industry leader reveals
Brexit triggers a great car parts race for UK auto industry | Financial Times
A Mini part's incredible journey shows how Brexit will hit the UK car industry
The UK’s industrial supply chains are dependent on European manufacturers
Brexit edges UK companies out of EU supply chain | Reuters
EU car manufacturers already in talks about rejecting British-made parts because of Brexit, industry leader reveals
Brexit triggers a great car parts race for UK auto industry | Financial Times
A Mini part's incredible journey shows how Brexit will hit the UK car industry
The UK’s industrial supply chains are dependent on European manufacturers
Brexit edges UK companies out of EU supply chain | Reuters
W
westcountry_skyblue
Guest
Does a mixed load mean products and immigrants?
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Tbh...I don't feel any need to contradict you. I have my own opinion based on my own logic, knowledge & experience (which counts for nothing to anyone else really) - I DO concur with Gove on the 'experts' thing. Up until a month ago the experts were telling us that 1/2 an aspirin a day helps prevent stroke...last month other experts have told us there is now no evidence to demonstrate that being true.
And I am not ignoring any of it...but whether I agree or not is a different matter.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Maybe the British elite are convinced that the unstoppable path the EU appears to be taking is toward some sort of modern-German Empire...& it doesn't wish to be a part of it!?
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I honestly wouldn't start on this.
My job is literally consulting supply chain managers of large companies across Europe.
You wouldn't believe the amount of money my clients save from importing their stock from the far east. It's roughly one third cheaper, which is a huge cost saving.
Have you had some binbrexit stickers made Mart ?!