The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (304 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Like I said it won't be easy. They will now know this. They have had 2 years to sort something. They have had warnings since last year. Carney has been warning them most of this year.

5 months to go and nothing has been done.

All the fault of Brexit but nothing to do with the reason why the majority voted leave.

So what do you think of the chances of a good deal for both sides?

Or do you still say the EU doesn't need a deal?

I have heard that the pragmatic approach of the British civil service is pretty much the only way to make sense of EU regulations & laws...& there is huge concern amongst the EUs own civil service as to how they are going to continue to be effective if/when the British depart

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[martcov]

They will.

But there are two problems. 52% voted for it and Labour is led by Corbyn.

What is „it“? „It“ ( leave? ) has crystallised into political options.
Which of the 4 current political options for „leave“ did the people vote for? 48% voted remain. That’s more than voted for any one of the 4 leave versions. Put the 4 options, including remain, up to vote and remain will be the most popular option with the least people unhappy and the best result for the country. We could then move forwards.

Corbyn would have to bite the bullet.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yeah the country is going to be divided for years if not decades to come. At least the Tories will forever own this mess.

So Labour supporters that voted to leave are unconditionally excused?

The Tories just have the unenviable task of getting to an outcome as decided by the referendum.

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[Sick Boy]

So Labour supporters that voted to leave are unconditionally excused?

The Tories just have the unenviable task of getting to an outcome as decided by the referendum.

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A referendum that they opted to hold without any plan at all if the vote was to leave. As I said, it's a Conservative mess that they will have to own and it will inevitably taint them for a long time to come.

 

[martcov]

I have heard that the pragmatic approach of the British civil service is pretty much the only way to make sense of EU regulations & laws...& there is huge concern amongst the EUs own civil service as to how they are going to continue to be effective if/when the British depart

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No. Martin Selmayr is in charge.

 

[Astute]

I didn't say any of your first 3 claims.

My point was that it's a long way from the German car industry and Italian wine industry insisting that the UK got what it wanted. As we've seen, they view the Single Market as more important than the UK, surprise surprise.

So who has said anything about them insisting that the UK got what they wanted?

Mart loves to make out that everyone is being Juncker and co on not giving us a decent deal.

Anyone who can think for themself would know this isn't right. But those in the EU do as they are told.

 

[Astute]

52% of those who voted went for it.

Makes no difference who Labour is led by, it's still a mess created and put into action by the Tories.

Yes it is.

But if Labour was united behind a decent leader it would be the end of the Tories for ages. But that isn't the case.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes it is.

But if Labour was united behind a decent leader it would be the end of the Tories for ages. But that isn't the case.

The Tories are hardly united either but I do think the country will end up with a Corbyn government.

 

[Sick Boy]

So who has said anything about them insisting that the UK got what they wanted?

Mart loves to make out that everyone is being Juncker and co on not giving us a decent deal.

Anyone who can think for themself would know this isn't right. But those in the EU do as they are told.

There have been plenty on posts on here saying those industries would have ensured that the UK got a deal that suited it. Even the moronic Boris Johnson claimed much the same.

 

[Astute]

No.

No.

Leavers no longer surprise me.

But you have just said the EU wants to cherry pick banking jobs from London. It is there in black and white. That is why this post is short and sweet without mentioning what it is about.

So yes the EU wants to cherry pick more.

Good chance of a no deal if it continues.

 

[martcov]

But you have just said the EU wants to cherry pick banking jobs from London. It is there in black and white. That is why this post is short and sweet without mentioning what it is about.

So yes the EU wants to cherry pick more.

Good chance of a no deal if it continues.

No it doesn’t. It hasn’t asked the UK to give it it’s business in return for the UK leaving. The UK has made itself a third country and the business has become more complicated. One solution is to move some of it to the EU.

I don’t think you get what cherry picking means.

 

[martcov]

But you have just said the EU wants to cherry pick banking jobs from London. It is there in black and white. That is why this post is short and sweet without mentioning what it is about.

So yes the EU wants to cherry pick more.

Good chance of a no deal if it continues.

If what continues?

 

[Astute]

The Tories are hardly united either but I do think the country will end up with a Corbyn government.

If Brexit goes badly the Tories will get rid of May. It would be like a new start. If Labour keeps Corbyn it will be the same as now. Untrusted and a lack of charisma.

 

[Astute]

There have been plenty on posts on here saying those industries would have ensured that the UK got a deal that suited it. Even the moronic Boris Johnson claimed much the same.

No. It was said they would speak up. And now the date of us leaving is getting closer and no sign of a deal they are starting to speak up. They are getting worried about their livelihood. It is enough to get their leaders worried.

They can't tell the EU what to do. People in the EU can't even say anything.

 

[Astute]

No it doesn’t. It hasn’t asked the UK to give it it’s business in return for the UK leaving. The UK has made itself a third country and the business has become more complicated. One solution is to move some of it to the EU.

I don’t think you get what cherry picking means.

Banning London from doing the work it did before the EU?

Just a shame they didn't have a clue what it involves.

 

[Astute]

If what continues?

Not wanting to give anything but wanting to take what they can.

You are as blind as those ruining the EU.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

A referendum that they opted to hold without any plan at all if the vote was to leave. As I said, it's a Conservative mess that they will have to own and it will inevitably taint them for a long time to come.

They would argue they were true to their word, unlike previous Labour governments...& when actually given the chance - a sizeable number of Labour voters voted to leave. Or are you saying they should have been denied their promised & democratic opportunity to vote on the issue?

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[martcov]

No. It was said they would speak up. And now the date of us leaving is getting closer and no sign of a deal they are starting to speak up. They are getting worried about their livelihood. It is enough to get their leaders worried.

They can't tell the EU what to do. People in the EU can't even say anything.

What now? The EU is 27 countries. They back Barnier unaminously as was shown at Salzburg.

 

[martcov]

They would argue they were true to their word, unlike previous Labour governments...& when actually given the chance - a sizeable number of Labour voters voted to leave. Or are you saying they should have been denied their promised & democratic opportunity to vote on the issue?

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There are 4 'leaves' on the table at the moment. All incompatible. So which one, leave version, did people vote for? Did more people vote for remain than any of the other, leave, alternatives.

 

[Grendel]

There are 4 'leaves' on the table at the moment. All incompatible. So which one, leave version, did people vote for? Did more people vote for remain than any of the other, leave, alternatives.

I voted to leave Mart pure and simple

 

[martcov]

Not wanting to give anything but wanting to take what they can.

You are as blind as those ruining the EU.

What? The UK is leaving. The EU wanted the status quo. What are they supposed to do now? Look after their members' interests by getting as much business as they can in the circumstances? Or just say 'take your cherries and you don't have to pay anything or to comply with our laws'?

 

[Grendel]

What? The UK is leaving. The EU wanted the status quo. What are they supposed to do now? Look after their members' interests by getting as much business as they can in the circumstances? Or just say 'take your cherries and you don't have to pay anything or to comply with our laws'?

What is your view on the Bank of England statement on the implications for the EU bank of a hard Brexit?

 

[Sick Boy]

If Brexit goes badly the Tories will get rid of May. It would be like a new start. If Labour keeps Corbyn it will be the same as now. Untrusted and a lack of charisma.

How would it be a fresh start hahaha!! It's forever going to taint the party, to suggest a new leader would wipe this away is very naive.

A lack of charisma? I'm not a fan of his but how many other party leaders have had festival crowds chanting their name?

The not trusted stuff comes is the same narrative as the Tories' claims that Labour are the party of chaos - if there's currently a party of chaos it's the Conservatives.

 

[martcov]

I voted to leave Mart pure and simple

Are you in agreement with Canada+, Norway, Chequers or no deal? Genuinely interested? You must be unhappy with three of them.

 

[Sick Boy]

No. It was said they would speak up. And now the date of us leaving is getting closer and no sign of a deal they are starting to speak up. They are getting worried about their livelihood. It is enough to get their leaders worried.

They can't tell the EU what to do. People in the EU can't even say anything.

Do you have any quotes from these industry leaders?

 

[Astute]

What now? The EU is 27 countries. They back Barnier unaminously as was shown at Salzburg.

They are told to.

But are you telling me that everyone is happy with the way things are going?

 

[martcov]

They are told to.

But are you telling me that everyone is happy with the way things are going?

Who told 27 heads of government what to say?

 

[Astute]

There are 4 'leaves' on the table at the moment. All incompatible. So which one, leave version, did people vote for? Did more people vote for remain than any of the other, leave, alternatives.

Will you be surprised with the way the EU has been that it will end up being a no deal and the EU getting what it wants until they see how much their egos has fucked it up?

But no. It is all the fault of the majority who voted leave. The way the EU is run isn't pissing people off throughout the EU. Anyone who can't see the benefits of being in the EU even if they don't benefit personally in any way is an idiot.

Yes Mart. We know your version.

 

[martcov]

Will you be surprised with the way the EU has been that it will end up being a no deal and the EU getting what it wants until they see how much their egos has fucked it up?

But no. It is all the fault of the majority who voted leave. The way the EU is run isn't pissing people off throughout the EU. Anyone who can't see the benefits of being in the EU even if they don't benefit personally in any way is an idiot.

Yes Mart. We know your version.

I don't understand the bit about their egos. Whose egos? In what way is this about egos?

The way the EU is being run isn't even mentioned here in Germany. A bit of uproar about Selmayr, but people are not going on and on about it.

Brexit is indeed the fault of people who voted for it without reading the small print. We will all take a hit. We will see who are the first to suffer are and realise what they had in the EU.

 

[martcov]

What is your view on the Bank of England statement on the implications for the EU bank of a hard Brexit?

I haven’t read it. The government claims to be able to bring in measures for a three year period to allow EEA Banks to apply for UK licenses.

Do you mean the ECB? Astute refers to the EIB as the EU bank.

 

[Grendel]

Are you in agreement with Canada+, Norway, Chequers or no deal? Genuinely interested? You must be unhappy with three of them.

Compared to remaining in the Eu no I’m not

 

[martcov]

Compared to remaining in the Eu no I’m not

So you would take Norway with free movement and regulatory alignment? But with no say? Or you would take a crash out, WTO and a Fox USA or Rees Mogg deregulation and drop all tariffs deal? Or Canada style FTA, which would mean a possible sea border with NI? Or you would back Chequers, which in it’s present form won’t be accepted?

Which one of those is more in the country‘s interest than remain?

Or would you put yourself in the caricature „leaver“ class of thick, gullible, misguided and clueless „ just get on with it“ ( whatever „it“ is ) type?

 

[martcov]

Will you be surprised with the way the EU has been that it will end up being a no deal and the EU getting what it wants until they see how much their egos has fucked it up?

But no. It is all the fault of the majority who voted leave. The way the EU is run isn't pissing people off throughout the EU. Anyone who can't see the benefits of being in the EU even if they don't benefit personally in any way is an idiot.

Yes Mart. We know your version.

Your version, is that the EU is unprepared and the EC and ECB are incompetent, or you suggest they must be, or that they haven’t thought of the consequences of Brexit on the financial system and are inactive. You haven’t mentioned that Carney and Draghi have been working together in a joint working group for months and months. Both sides are well aware of what is going on. They want, for starters, the EC to introduce a transition time of 3 years as Carney and the government have. The EC says the industry should make it’s own arrangements. Remains to be seen who is right and it is probably a negotiating tactic. We wouldn’t be discussing this without Brexit.

On the other hand you ignore Brexit inactivity ( incompetence? ), and unpreparedness problems in the UK.

Such as:

„More than three-quarters of NHS trusts, however, have made no preparations for the UK's departure from the EU whatsoever, according to Freedom of Information obtained by the People's Vote campaign.

The group also commissioned a YouGov poll of the UK's doctors and nurses, who - according to the poll - now back another referendum by a margin of three to one“.

There are problems all over the place. Potential disasters. But, instead of saying Brexit is a crazy idea, you twist it to „it‘s the EU‘s fault“ and „the EU willl suffer because of their egos“ ( latest Astute theory). If the European banking system fails, the UK will also take a massive hit.

I don’t know how you are going to turn the NHS unpreparedness into the EU‘s fault considering that we are leaving the EU largely to save the NHS and pump money into it. At least that’s what it said on the bus.

 

[Astute]

What? The UK is leaving. The EU wanted the status quo. What are they supposed to do now? Look after their members' interests by getting as much business as they can in the circumstances? Or just say 'take your cherries and you don't have to pay anything or to comply with our laws'?

Same old lines Mart, same old lines.

So the UK wanted the EU to try and bully us into staying in the EU?

The UK wanted the bad end off every deal?

Of course you only see the German side of it. You have been living in Germany since before the EU started. You have seen the benefits to Germany. You have seen the benefits to Germany of the Euro. You would have said we were foolish not to join the Euro. Many did say it was foolish not to join. It has been proven since that we are as strong as we are because we didn't join the Euro.

The whole of the EU and Euro is for the benefit of Germany. You say we have a voice in the EU. We do not. We have a whisper that gets ignored.

So now we should lose what we had before the EU because we dare to say enough is enough?

 

[Astute]

How would it be a fresh start hahaha!! It's forever going to taint the party, to suggest a new leader would wipe this away is very naive.

A lack of charisma? I'm not a fan of his but how many other party leaders have had festival crowds chanting their name?

The not trusted stuff comes is the same narrative as the Tories' claims that Labour are the party of chaos - if there's currently a party of chaos it's the Conservatives.

Pro EU whatever happens pro Labour whatever happens.

So those drugged out of their brains and that don't have experience in life chant his name. That will make him a good leader? You admit on one hand he isn't the one to take us forward but then use a reason that isn't a reason why he should stay as Labour leader.

Are you saying that Labour has nobody better than Corbyn? If he is the best we have the Tories will win again.