The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (366 Viewers)

[Grendel]

About Brexit? I doubt it. Is he a remainer?

Now I know you are wummimg - thanks

 

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[Grendel]

Not according to the guy running Italy. We don’t know what will happen. Where are they going to go? Look at our mess. We are leaving at a time of low unemployment, economy was going great and the world economy was and is growing - yet still we cannot leave without screwing ourselves. What if there were a world recession going on now? Or a financial crash? They would be dependent on help from others which would stop them trying to go it alone. But, we cannot be sure either way.

Actually when I look at this comment it really shows how thick you are.

The Italian government made the euro comment as he’d trying to push a growth budget onto the Eu which goes against their expectations of contracting economies for the sake of debt repayment and the fear it would create competition in the eurozone. It’s goibg to be rejected. Italy’s credit rating has one more downgrade to do before it is sitting proudly alongside Zimbabwe as a country to do business with.

Your ignorance is staggering. The “help” they’d get is enduring the bond yeald doesn’t escalate beyond where Germany needs it regardless of the state of the country and its inhabitants. We, on the other hand can do what we like. We can devalue, we can stimulate industry as much as we want - we could nationalise failing businesses if we want. Italy can do nothing - it’s growth budget will not be approved by the Eu.

You laugh at astute, dart and bazza for being thick but this one statement shows you haven’t got a clue how the Eu operates and how it needs to continue austerity to survive

 

[Grendel]

Much in the same way we were told the EU was about to die and France, Austria and Holland were about to follow the UK out of the EU.

Are you moving to Italy now? I think you are? What do you think of Italy’s proposed budget aimed at economic and employment stimulus?

Are you happy the EU are telling them to fuck off and think again?

 

[Sick Boy]

Are you moving to Italy now? I think you are? What do you think of Italy’s proposed budget aimed at economic and employment stimulus?

Are you happy the EU are telling them to fuck off and think again?

Yeah, moving over in December for a booming start-up.

I think that 5Star are incompetent and La Lega are morons, so I have little faith in either of them. I am going to go over and enjoy the better quality of life and put my head in the sand like most Italians seem to do. If the country goes down the toilet we will just came back here on go over to Dublin.

 

[Ashdown]

Down South or oop North. Weather is still poor in the North, plenty of money around though, amazing culture and food . Loved my trip to Rome, history at every turn. Great products made in Italy.....bit pricy in places though. Oh and there are quite a few similarities between Spanish and Italian language which I'm learning. Good luck with it all, I couldn't live in Dublin though, climates worse than The Midlands of England.

 

[Sick Boy]

Down South or oop North. Weather is still poor in the North, plenty of money around though, amazing culture and food . Loved my trip to Rome, history at every turn. Great products made in Italy.....bit pricy in places though. Oh and there are quite a few similarities between Spanish and Italian language which I'm learning. Good luck with it all, I couldn't live in Dublin though, climates worse than The Midlands of England.

In Verona, so north east.

The winters can be very cold and the summers very hot and humid but I wouldn't describe the weather as poor.

Looking forward to it now!!

 

[martcov]

Actually when I look at this comment it really shows how thick you are.

The Italian government made the euro comment as he’d trying to push a growth budget onto the Eu which goes against their expectations of contracting economies for the sake of debt repayment and the fear it would create competition in the eurozone. It’s goibg to be rejected. Italy’s credit rating has one more downgrade to do before it is sitting proudly alongside Zimbabwe as a country to do business with.

Your ignorance is staggering. The “help” they’d get is enduring the bond yeald doesn’t escalate beyond where Germany needs it regardless of the state of the country and its inhabitants. We, on the other hand can do what we like. We can devalue, we can stimulate industry as much as we want - we could nationalise failing businesses if we want. Italy can do nothing - it’s growth budget will not be approved by the Eu.

You laugh at astute, dart and bazza for being thick but this one statement shows you haven’t got a clue how the Eu operates and how it needs to continue austerity to survive

Well I agree we can devalue. We already have.

 

[Grendel]

Well I agree we can devalue. We already have.

Lol you’ve really exposed your ignorance here

 

[martcov]

Lol you’ve really exposed your ignorance here

The GBP is worth less against the Euro. Why do you think that is?

Who is going to pull the brake on Italy? The financial markets or the EU? Who are the populists going to blame? Blame will go to the EU, but if they drop another notch in credit ratings they will have an even bigger problem. They know that, but cannot lose. Either they push the EU to their limit, or the market to theirs, or they get a higher than 0,8 rise and blame the EU for not being allowed to go higher. Whatever happens the finger gets pointed at the EU and they are the heroes for their base.

 

[Grendel]

The GBP is worth less against the Euro. Why do you think that is?

Who is going to pull the brake on Italy? The financial markets or the EU? Who are the populists going to blame? Blame will go to the EU, but if they drop another notch in credit ratings they will have an even bigger problem. They know that, but cannot lose. Either they push the EU to their limit, or the market to theirs, or they get a higher than 0,8 rise and blame the EU for not being allowed to go higher. Whatever happens the finger gets pointed at the EU and they are the heroes for their base.

This is brilliant

So answer my question:

Italy have put a budget in place which they believe will stimulate Italy and make them more competitive against European neighbours so create wealth and prosperity.

This budget if it was in Germany would be approved.

Should Brussels refuse the right of the Italian people (you say there is no fiscal or political union in the EU) to reject this agreed budget.

Just a word - yes or no?

 

[Sick Boy]

I explored the opportunity of working freelance in Italy for a couple of companies over here and found out that tax on my income would have been 40%, which is insane and is hardly going to help stimulate growth. I think the budget is trying to get this down, which I do agree with.

 

[Grendel]

I explored the opportunity of working freelance in Italy for a couple of companies over here and found out that tax on my income would have been 40%, which is insane and is hardly going to help stimulate growth. I think the budget is trying to get this down, which I do agree with.

Eu will say no won’t they Mart?

 

[Sick Boy]

Eu will say no won’t they Mart?

A compromise is more likely, IMO. I was surprised that Italy would be having a basic universal income.

 

[Grendel]

A compromise is more likely, IMO. I was surprised that Italy would be having a basic universal income.

As long as you are content with a nations budget being altered by Brussels that’s fine

 

[Sick Boy]

As long as you are content with a nations budget being altered by Brussels that’s fine

Based on the 5 Star's previous levels of competence, it's probably for the best.

 

[martcov]

This is brilliant

So answer my question:

Italy have put a budget in place which they believe will stimulate Italy and make them more competitive against European neighbours so create wealth and prosperity.

This budget if it was in Germany would be approved.

Should Brussels refuse the right of the Italian people (you say there is no fiscal or political union in the EU) to reject this agreed budget.

Just a word - yes or no?

Loaded question. They are theoretically allowed 3%. They had announced 0,8%, but the new government wants 2,4%. They have 130% GDP debt. They are required to have a maximum of 60%. No chance. The Eurozone wants them not to increase the debt %. The markets will increase the interest rates on state bonds if they do go for 2,4%. The EU will say no and the markets will punish Italy. The EU will be blamed by populists whatever happens. The European elections are coming up. There will be some sort of compromise, but the populists will say the EU prevented them getting rid of poverty.

 

[martcov]

I explored the opportunity of working freelance in Italy for a couple of companies over here and found out that tax on my income would have been 40%, which is insane and is hardly going to help stimulate growth. I think the budget is trying to get this down, which I do agree with.

Similar to Germany. You don’t have to be megarich to pay 42%. There is also solidarity tax. The German finance minister also agrees that the Italian budget has some good ideas. Especially as they don’t have insurance cover for long term unemployment at the moment. Suggests some sort of compromise could happen.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Loaded question. They are theoretically allowed 3%. They had announced 0,8%, but the new government wants 2,4%. They have 130% GDP debt. They are required to have a maximum of 60%. No chance. The Eurozone wants them not to increase the debt %. The markets will increase the interest rates on state bonds if they do go for 2,4%. The EU will say no and the markets will punish Italy. The EU will be blamed by populists whatever happens. The European elections are coming up. There will be some sort of compromise, but the populists will say the EU prevented them getting rid of poverty.

You're really bought into the EU language. 'Populists'

 

[Grendel]

Loaded question. They are theoretically allowed 3%. They had announced 0,8%, but the new government wants 2,4%. They have 130% GDP debt. They are required to have a maximum of 60%. No chance. The Eurozone wants them not to increase the debt %. The markets will increase the interest rates on state bonds if they do go for 2,4%. The EU will say no and the markets will punish Italy. The EU will be blamed by populists whatever happens. The European elections are coming up. There will be some sort of compromise, but the populists will say the EU prevented them getting rid of poverty.

No it’s a question and your pathetic squirming confirms the answer.

The bonds - the bonds tied to Germany I assume?

Now you struggled with yes or no so now I’ll make it A or B and see if we get along better. (All take note he has admitted that no fiscal union in the EU is a lie as he’s in a very roundabout way agreed Brussels will tell Italy what is acceptable and what is not)

a Will the people of a country who’ve had a budget rejected by the elected government from Brussels be more likely to swing to nationalism

B will such a country be more likely to become less nationalistic in its outlook

Go on just say A or B - I dare you

 

[Grendel]

You're really bought into the EU language. 'Populists'

It’s becoming too easy now. Bringing the Italy situation was the biggest own goal he could make

 

[martcov]

You're really bought into the EU language. 'Populists'

It is not EU language. It applies to Trump, it applies to Bannon and co who describe themselves as populists. Bannon calls his movement a populist movement. He has been in with Farage and co since at least 2014. So, I assume that, as they are all talking together, I am not offending anyone in Bannon's sphere. ( This includes the Italians who Bannon claims to have been advising ).

 

[martcov]

It’s becoming too easy now. Bringing the Italy situation was the biggest own goal he could make

No it isn't easy. Read what Bannon says about his 'right wing populist movement'. It's aims with regard to the EU.

 

[martcov]

No it’s a question and your pathetic squirming confirms the answer.

The bonds - the bonds tied to Germany I assume?

Now you struggled with yes or no so now I’ll make it A or B and see if we get along better. (All take note he has admitted that no fiscal union in the EU is a lie as he’s in a very roundabout way agreed Brussels will tell Italy what is acceptable and what is not)

a Will the people of a country who’ve had a budget rejected by the elected government from Brussels be more likely to swing to nationalism

B will such a country be more likely to become less nationalistic in its outlook

Go on just say A or B - I dare you

Wrong as usual. The conditions I was referring to apply to members of the Eurozone. There is no fiscal union.

The band of borrowing up to 3% is part of a Eurozone stability pact. The Italians are inside of that. The national debt is their problem and they have agreed to contain it. That is how they got their interest rates on money they borrow reduced. If they go through with this, they will be breaking their own commitments, their Ratings will be reduced and the lenders will ask for more money via the interest on Italian state bonds. This makes matters worse for Italy regardless of the EU.

Other Eurozone countries are objecting to them not stickig to the rules - Netherlands and Austria. This will mean the EU will have to take action at the request of member states. I predict a compromise because the Italians have a point and the EU elections are coming up. I think the Italians are clever enough to see that it is a difficult situation, although the populists will blame the EU.

The EU would cause itself more problems if it didn't follow up on the complaints from it's members.

 

[AVWskyblue]

Really? Your opinion, but then you‘re just a grumpy old man. Did you live stream Farage’s Harrogate speech to assembled OAPs?

You really are a nasty piece of work, all these insulting comments about our older people are ageism personified one of the base natzi traits........ unforgivable

Sent from my 5010X using Tapatalk

 

[martcov]

You really are a nasty piece of work, all these insulting comments about our older people are ageism personified one of the base natzi traits........ unforgivable

Sent from my 5010X using Tapatalk

What insulting comments? Mentioning that a large portion of the audience were OAPs? Is OAP an insult? It is a factual observation of the demography of leave means leave. FYI, I am an older ageing man with receeding and greying hair. I am hardly likely to be insulting myself. The only difference being that I cannot stand Farage and associated Brexit bullshit and bullshitters. "Our older people"....... stop having a go at me then. I am one of them.

 

[Grendel]

Wrong as usual. The conditions I was referring to apply to members of the Eurozone. There is no fiscal union.

The band of borrowing up to 3% is part of a Eurozone stability pact. The Italians are inside of that. The national debt is their problem and they have agreed to contain it. That is how they got their interest rates on money they borrow reduced. If they go through with this, they will be breaking their own commitments, their Ratings will be reduced and the lenders will ask for more money via the interest on Italian state bonds. This makes matters worse for Italy regardless of the EU.

Other Eurozone countries are objecting to them not stickig to the rules - Netherlands and Austria. This will mean the EU will have to take action at the request of member states. I predict a compromise because the Italians have a point and the EU elections are coming up. I think the Italians are clever enough to see that it is a difficult situation, although the populists will blame the EU.

The EU would cause itself more problems if it didn't follow up on the complaints from it's members.

You are becoming pitiful and embarrassing - can the Eu stop a country determing it’s own budget

Yes it no - just answer the question you imbecile

 

[Grendel]

What insulting comments? Mentioning that a large portion of the audience were OAPs? Is OAP an insult? It is a factual observation of the demography of leave means leave. FYI, I am an older ageing man with receeding and greying hair. I am hardly likely to be insulting myself. The only difference being that I cannot stand Farage and associated Brexit bullshit and bullshitters. "Our older people"....... stop having a go at me then. I am one of them.

Most remainers who I show your bilge to are ashamed you are on their side and think you are a nasty bigoted c**t

 

[Grendel]

What insulting comments? Mentioning that a large portion of the audience were OAPs? Is OAP an insult? It is a factual observation of the demography of leave means leave. FYI, I am an older ageing man with receeding and greying hair. I am hardly likely to be insulting myself. The only difference being that I cannot stand Farage and associated Brexit bullshit and bullshitters. "Our older people"....... stop having a go at me then. I am one of them.

Should the OAP’s wear Pajamas and a star Mart? So we know who they are? I assume any that voted remain of that age can wear normal attire?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Much in the same way we were told the EU was about to die and France, Austria and Holland were about to follow the UK out of the EU.

Nobody suggest the next day did they? We haven't even left yet!
I believe one or two will follow suit within 15yrs.

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[martcov]

Should the OAP’s wear Pajamas and a star Mart? So we know who they are? I assume any that voted remain of that age can wear normal attire?

They don’t need to. People who go to Farage‘s meetings are obviously supporters of the dishonest scumbag. Why do you keep on about the Hitler Youth Meetings and people wearing stars? Are you implying that by not liking the far right people like myself somehow are approving of the far right?

 

[martcov]

Nobody suggest the next day did they? We haven't even left yet!
I believe one or two will follow suit within 15yrs.

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Bully for you. You also believe everything will be great in 30 years when I am probably dead. Not very convincing arguments for Brexit.

 

[martcov]

Most remainers who I show your bilge to are ashamed you are on their side and think you are a nasty bigoted c**t

Don’t believe a word of it. You would have to show your bile at the same time.

 

[martcov]

You are becoming pitiful and embarrassing - can the Eu stop a country determing it’s own budget

Yes it no - just answer the question you imbecile

We shall see. It has never happened before as countries stick to the rules or get an agreement.

 

[martcov]

You are becoming pitiful and embarrassing - can the Eu stop a country determing it’s own budget

Yes it no - just answer the question you imbecile

Plus the usual insult to someone who has a different opinion. And you accuse me of being a bigot... you do talk some crap.

 

[Grendel]

We shall see. It has never happened before as countries stick to the rules or get an agreement.

So the budget submitted as it is will not be changed? Why keep humiliating yourself?