Astute
Well-Known Member
So where did I say that?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (31 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It's the same person
Astute
Well-Known Member
But why does the right want to stay in the EU?
It is all down to money. Italy doesn't have a pot to piss in. They need to be bailed out yet again. And it will be down to Germany to do so. The question is will they?
Fixing the Euro: The Time to Act Is Now - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
Nothing to do with the opinion expressed in the article calling for reform. It says relying on a transfer system is naive, as the problem will still be there without reform. The final sentence was not to be frightened by the populists into making a wrong decision.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
When was the last time Italy was bailed out?
It won't be Germany alone, which is why Austria have expressed concern about Italy's budget plans.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Unless you have 2 accounts on this forum, it wasn't in reply to your post.
Oh those Italians......they shall probably change sides again, they have form for that !
Do you remember the contributions during the gulf war:
The US sent 250,000 men and 400 tanks
The UK sent 50,000 men and 50 tanks
The French sent 24 Fighter jets
The Canadians sent 4 naval vessels
The Italians sent 12 Ice cream vans !
No. He was caught out yet again and reverted to name calling, lying and diverting.... which he always does when beaten. He couldn’t make any sensible points and ended up humiliating himself. Funny how you missed that. Any more jokes about foreigners lined up?
Astute
Well-Known Member
It was in reply to you quoting a post of mine.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Losing? You were all over the place. You quoted a speech regarding Italy that showed the Eu controls and dictates market budget
You refused to answer a direct question and went on some bumbling rant about grumpy old men
You couldn’t answer my comment on bond yields and it’s linkage with Germany
You couldn’t comment on it’s downgraded rating and it’s implication
You refused to answer a question linking this to extremism and nationalism
You couldn’t when backed into a corner explain how it’s better a country in a volatile economic climate is better “helped” by the Eu bank than deploy typical fiscal and economic strategies which it’s restrained from doing
Instead you laughed at stupid old Brit’s, called some poster a Christian nut job and everyone else thick
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
No it wasn't.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Italy keeps getting loans it can't afford to pay back. Next best thing to a bail out. And it will most probably lead to a bailout needed.
So who can afford to give countless billions to Italy? Germany would have to bear the brunt of any bailout. If we are still in the EU there would be rules somewhere that means we would have to help. But if we are not then who would take our place?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Apologies. Trying to work and keep up with this. Not easy when I am not allowed my phone on site.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Just clicked on the show ignored comments bit. Half of me wants to unblock Mart so I can have a laugh.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Before the vote it was agreed that Eurozone members would not have to contribute in future, so if remain had won the UK wouldn't have contributed.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm serving my notice now, so can enjoy the comforts of a desktop computer for a change
Yeah here is a couple:
What's the difference between a Turk and a Bavarian in Berlin ?
The Turk speaks better German !
Why did the Germans confiscate all the Dutch bikes in 1944 ?
It was quicker to retreat on a bike !
I knew you would. So I kept on calling you out.
Bullshit. As usual. You asked loaded questions which didn’t allow a simple yes or no.
I explained the rules and why raising borrowing would result in lenders wanting higher interest rates from Italy.
I did not laugh at stupid old Brits. I said that the leave means leave meeting looked like an OAP club outing because of the number of ageing people and lack of young people.
The born again Christian said I was a fascist and was insulting our older people. No one has yet explained the so called insult of pointing out the demographics of leave means leave.
I am in the age group mentioned and am not insulting myself. That’s your job apparently.
I pointed out that the EU has been asked to take action about the Italian budget by member states and is obliged to do so. The situation would be worse if the EU does not act.
Astute‘s link explained that all options for Italy are bad and called for reform including pressing ahead with the banking union.
It is a complex situation and you claim that the EU wants to tell Italy what to do with their budget.
Italy accepted the rules and up until now has complied with them. The whole thing is a populist theatre. At the end there will be some sort of compromise and promises of necessary reforms.
As Astute‘s link said, we should not be frightened by populists into making a wrong decision.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The problem is would the EU watch Italy go to the wall?
I don't think they would. So they would come up with the money. And where does the money come from?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Fair play to you. Love Italy and the people. Always seem to get invited to a family do each time I go. And with the Italians there us always a family do.I'm serving my notice now, so can enjoy the comforts of a desktop computer for a change
I don't like pasta or pizza but love it in Italy. And the Peroni.....Always drive there so I can bring back as much weight as I can carry.
9 years 1 month til I retire. Hoping to spend a few years exploring the South.
WhaleOilBeefHooked
Well-Known Member
GTFO
Astute
Well-Known Member
Calling me out? Don't be silly.
I still think that I want us to stay in the EU. But I can see the problems. You try to make out that everything is OK. You make out that we must stay in the EU. And you don't care what crap you come out with. You must even know you contradict yourself.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not in England. It is bland. But in Italy I can't get enough.
WhaleOilBeefHooked
Well-Known Member
You're forgiven, in that case.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No problem.
Too big to fall, too big to save.
I see more problems leaving. Staying is safer and problems can be worked on. Leaving solves nothing.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
"I don't like pasta or pizza" - Is that even possible?!
"And the Peroni.....Always drive there so I can bring back as much weight as I can carry." - Better make the most of it before Duty Free makes a return
I tried a double malt Peroni when I was last there, it was about 6% or so, I would recommend trying to find it. Also Ichnusa is probably my favourite Italian beer and is much nice than the standard Peroni and Nastro Azzurro"Hoping to spend a few years exploring the South." - The south is beautiful, especially Sicily - I much prefer it but there is not a lot of work down there and my girlfriend is from the deep north.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
There are loads of Italians in Brighton, there are restaurants where the food is that good you'd think you're actually in Italy.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Brighton is a bit far for me to go just for a meal though :smuggrin:
Wherever I go I hire a villa. Then you are amongst the natives. You don't have your food cooked for you. So you eat with the natives. And the rule is only speak English when we are alone or have to. I can't stand ignorant people that don't even try. Then expect a full English breakfast and Sunday roast.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Said the captain of the Titanic!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Mart lives his in own delusional bubble.
He hilariously mocks the Brexiteers as living in the 70’s but urges greater decision making through centralism when modern thinking supports devolution of power.
He says I asked a question that was loaded. The question was can Italy set its own budget. The answer is NO they need permission from other countries to decide their fiscal and economic strategy. Fancy that - that’s really hip and modern.
Then there was a question i asked for an A or B answer as I assumed he had some numerate dyslexia. That was is such acts of denying a country’s elected government the power to make its own decisions result in greater desire for nationalism and a rise of the far right. Answer is A yes it does.
I’m still waiting for responses on the following:
Bond yield impact
Downgrading of credit impact
Crucially what the country would do in the event of an economic collapse when it clearly has no authority to act freely.
Mart says Europe are there to “help” - it’s the sort of “help” doctor shipman offered to his patients.
Send the boys round and tell them what they can and cannot do. What if course they cannot do is any fiscal strategy that requires borrowing what they feel they need.
It’s hilarious he pointed to an article that showed all you need to know about the capitalist club and why we need to leave.
What Mart cannot and never will get is that the club is the antithesis of normal democracy and independent thought. He won’t ever get it because of the fact he lives in a country which is top of the euro tree.
The decaying roots at the bottom he does not care about as they make his life even better as the elite can bung tariff free goods and destroy their business or produce their at massive labour cost reduction.
That’s classic centralist federalism. It’s classic far right dogma. The few control the many and the few reap the benefits.
Actually, many Brexiters do live in the 70s. Even Farage was a 70s National Front Fan whilst at school. The people in the photo of leave means leave were of an age where they would have spent their youth in the 60s and 70s. I can understand their nostalgia.
The question is loaded. It can set it’s own budget. Theoretically it can plan 3% of borrowing, but seeing as it is already massively in debt it will need to have agreement from other countries in the Eurozone. The Netherlands and Austria have requested the EU to take action if it stays by the new plan of 2,4%. The old plan was 0,8% and would be acceptable to the partners in the Euro. Italy agreed to these conditions. They were not forced upon Italy.
I have explained about bond yield impact caused by a lowering of ratings. You missed it. Too busy writing insulting incorrect posts.
The article that Astute posted by an economist pointed out that there are no good options for Italy. Reform is urgently needed in the Eurozone and economists disagree with each other as to what to do in the case of Italy. You no doubt have the answer which no expert has yet thought of.
The writer said we shouldn’t be frightened by populists into making the wrong decision.
Since when do we have referenda on the running of a currency or how much we should pay in tax or the government should borrow? Is that what you call democracy?
I would rather have parliamentary democracy with serious candidates, which delegates the running of the financial institutions to professionals. Obviously a rule based financial system - as in the Eurozone. Preferably a PR democracy as that offers a wider palette of parties to choose from. As in the European Parliament or other European countries. Much more democratic as FPTP or a House of Lords type system.
You obviously have a different understanding of democracy.