I’ve been partner of NITB, and later Tourism Ireland for over 30 years. I do give a fuck. I have witnessed the change for the better and it is sick that Btexit is causing unnecessary stress for people on Ireland.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (285 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
I’ve been partner of NITB, and later Tourism Ireland for over 30 years. I do give a fuck. I have witnessed the change for the better and it is sick that Btexit is causing unnecessary stress for people on Ireland.
Good riddance you rabid mentally challenged ignorant pillock.
If you take Grendel at his word, he has joined the other losers: Astute, Dart and Bazza. So much to the benefits of Brexit. They would be reeling off the benefits as counter arguments if there were any instead of e.g. making excuses for the British border problem and downplaying a major political achievement.
Yeah but most the vans are gathering scrap metal and the lorries are going to Tesco......bit like Cov really !
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s obvious that Grendull is just repeating some well chosen snippets of the GFA that have been doctored to be presented in a certain light from someone else’s work. No way has he read “it” himself. I have read both agreements, not since their signing admittedly but given I have a vested interest in the peace process I made the point of reading them which is why I knew it wasn’t a singular agreement. Maybe it is time to read them again.
Anyhow Grendull has once again tried to be clever by being stupid, shown himself up, I’ve put him right and then presumably out of embarrassment he’s blocked me. Funnily enough the same MO as last time he blocked me. Never mind. I’ll get over it.
Yes, he was caught out on ‚fiscal union‘ and something else recently. I think he has been having a hard time wriggling and twisting and has thrown the towel in for the time being. He will roll up again of course and read all the comments made during his ‚ignoring‘ period, as did Astute, when things have been forgotten.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You don't put people right. You come out with the same old lines even when everyone knows that you are wrong. Then the insults start.
Have you ever tried to have an adult debate and not spat your dummy out when proven wrong?
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I have not dismissed them. Everyone has concerns & uncertainty around Brexit. What people such as yourself seem to do is find some rightful concern that is blown into something much bigger by over zealous &/or sensational reporting in the media - & revel in it like pigs in shit because you perhaps expect it will make people change from being accepting of Brexit, to being anti-Brexit. Pretty much treating people with the same respect & intelligence as the very people that are slagged off for misleading the public, in the run-up to the referendum, to vote leave!
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't they? They are a business with objectives to meet
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Grendull claimed to have read the GFA. He clearly hasn’t because if he did he would know it wasn’t a singular it’s two agreements. The section he’s quoted in the one agreement he seems to be aware of doesn’t even cover the border issue. He’s bullshited his way through the border question clearly quoting someone else’s bullshit. Not sure how you can say I didn’t put him right. I very clearly did. Check it out for yourself if you don’t believe me.
Same old lines? I’ve never pointed out the facts on this issue out to him before so not sure how you’ve come to that conclusion.
If correcting someone’s very obvious mistakes is insulting then guilty as charged.
I tried having an adult conversation with him and he just wanted to make out I was Marts boyfriend. It was Grendull who didn’t want to discuss it. Probably down to his serious lack of knowledge on the subject.
Spat my dummy out? Only one of us has been blocked in a very I’m taking my ball back and going home style. It’s Grendull who’s spat the dummy not me. When I block someone in that manor by all accuse me of spitting the dummy out. It would be justified.
4 people, including Astute, have spat their dummy out recently. All pushing leave „arguments“ which they have trouble justifying. All claim not to be able to have a debate and that the thread is ruined by people pointing out facts.
Remarkable. Maybe leaving the EU is becoming difficult to justify as more and problems are coming out. The politicians who want leave are squabbling amongst themselves and insulting the EU, whilst being totally confounded that the EU won’t change it’s rules based system for the a country that is leaving.
The Selmayr II appointment by May goes totally unnoticed, whilst the original was a „thank god we‘re leaving issue.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
my concerns are nothing to do with the media.
I work in the JIT supply chain so now how fucked that could be in the event of a no deal.
And when this all began I had heard of the WTO but didn't know how it operated. I've spent time looking into it and have a basic knowledge of how it works and I can't help but conclude that there will be a massive negative impact on our economy if we end up operating under WTO rules.
Just look at the report released by the national audit office yesterday, it makes frightening reading.
I have asked several times, on here and in conversation with people, for evidence that my concerns are not justified and no one has come back with any unless you count we're leaving get used to it which seems to be the most common mantra and I think you yourself may have even parroted that one before.
And as for being pro or anti Brexit it makes no difference to me. As I have repeatedly said, I don't support a second referendum so I don't have an agenda, just pointing out evidence based facts.
. I just hope we get a deal but it's looking very unlikely.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
We don't know if there is a deal on the table. May says they are 95% there. But I don't trust her.
But I stand by what I have said previously. The EU will try everything to make us stay in. But I can't see them letting us leave without a deal. We are a massive market for them. But I can see us having to pay to get a good trade deal agreement.
So they would mess our JIT foundations up if they wanted to? But what some seem to forget is they would also mess their own up.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I think the EU are fully aware that it will cause them issues but as I've said, no one will suffer as much as us.
The WTO predict 1.6 million job losses in the UK and over 2 million in the EU but their losses will be spread. And I don't think anyone wants to mess up supply chains but it will just be a consequence of what's happened though it was both predictable and I would say avoidable.
And having a deal at 95% done means nothing if the other 5% isn't done.
We still haven't started negotiating on trade officially and the report yesterday said it is now too late to put in place the necessary infrastructure to cope with a no deal. It's a mess and it's exactly why I voted remain because this government are hopeless.
I don’t know how it is that if you say anything against Brexit you have an agenda, hate the UK and think the EU is perfect.
I hope that somehow we stop the nightmare and either through a referendum or an election, remain in the EU. The alternative is a mess and an economic hit for an unknown length of time with maybe something better in the distant future ( 30 years according to Bazza and 50 years according to Rees Mogg ).
I can hardly be trying to convince people of something on an off topic thread on a football forum in order to gain anything for my „agenda“. I just cannot sit here and see all the distractions and lies without wondering why people are defending what seems to me to be a major mistake. I point things out and get told I have ruined the thread and then get blocked. Strange times.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Do you remember the predictions for if we voted leave? Yes the opposite happened on nearly everything.
And yes more jobs could be lost here than any other country. But we could cope. Some countries in the EU are on their knees. And it would be even worse for those in the Euro. Those running the EU know this. Then you have their problem of not getting billions off us each year. This will also have to be replaced by money from elsewhere or they will have to make drastic cuts. Could they make big cuts to countries that get hit hard if there is only a crap offer on the table?
Yes we could get hit hard. But you need to look at it from both sides. Even the strongest out of the whole EU would get hit hard. They say about 25,000 well paid car making jobs in Germany could be lost. Yet Germany will most probably have to make up a lot of what we presently pay.
Or how about Italy? We are their 4th largest export market. Worth close to 25 billion a year IIRC. They are already in big trouble. Would you like to tell them that they can't have a trade deal with the UK but also tell them that they can't loan many more billions to keep going? How do you think their far right government would take it?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
We haven't left yet. Things will get worse and we have put ourselves in that position when there was no need.
You keep going on about what will happen in the EU, no one is disputing it, but we still aren't in a position to even start discussing deals with 5 months to go. There are red lines on all sides that won't be crossed and there appears to be no solution to.
Let's see if these fabled free trade deals eventually appear. I think it will take years to negotiate ourselves back to where we are now.
No deal is the odds on favourite and the odds are shortening daily.
We made the problem. The British border, which we voted to control ( control our borders), is our self made hurdle. We have to climb down on that and then we can move on to trade. Everyone wants a trade deal.
The problem is the Tory party, or rather the party in the party led by Rees Mogg and the DUP in particular.
The Italian government is a coalition and not all far right.
Many, probably the majority, blame Britain for this potential mess. If EU citizens lose out they won’t necessarily blame the EU. The EU can point to the insults from Tory MPs - Mafia, USSR, Nazis - to clearly show who was not acting in a spirit of good will.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Who’s we? If I lose my job there’s no we, it’s just me. We isn’t going to pay the bills only me is. Same goes for you.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Watching question time last night someone asked the panel why there’s no cross party consensus in Parliament on brexit. The labour and SNP MP’s were quick to point out that there was and the cross party consensus was a customs union that solves issues like JTI supply chains, the Irish border etc etc basically all the problems that the government is facing with Brexit through their “strategy”. The pro brexit at any cost Tory MP (who wants Davis to be leader) dismissed it out of hand after not five minutes previously saying all parties should be working together to find a solution. Funny really as she also pulled the how many referendums do we have to have to get the right answer quote out the hat in reply to a second referendum. How many cross party consensus’s do we have to have until we get the right answer for her?
Truth is MP’s like her, Rees-Mogg, Davis etc are in a minority in their own party let alone our democratically elected sovereign government yet somehow they seem to have been able to high Jack brexit as the only real reason May is adverse to a customs union is to attempt to satisfy a minority of her MP’s. Let’s face it, if it was the majority she would never have been leader in first place.
Truth is MP’s like her, Rees-Mogg, Davis etc are in a minority in their own party let alone our democratically elected sovereign government yet somehow they seem to have been able to high Jack brexit as the only real reason May is adverse to a customs union is to attempt to satisfy a minority of her MP’s. Let’s face it, if it was the majority she would never have been leader in first place.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Is it two agreements? It's a multilateral agreement isn't it?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
unforgivable that our government and particularly our trade secretary couldn't have seen this coming.
In a cabinet full of useless twats 'DR' Liam Fox stands out head and shoulders above the others as a completely and utterly talentless, deluded moron.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
In a cabinet full of useless twats 'DR' Liam Fox stands out head and shoulders above the others as a completely and utterly talentless, deluded moron.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There’s two. If you go on the governments website there is a singular document on the GFA but it’s a 35 page brief of the two agreements combined into one common document. The details are in the individual agreements and the British-Irish agreement is pinned to single market membership which is why the border currently is simplified. The 35 page document only talks about physical barriers. There’s so much more to it than that and as always the devil is in the detail. Freedom of movement being one. Might not actually be a problem for people born in the North or parents who were because they automatically qualify for an Irish passport, however there are people in the south who work and run business’s ect in the North but don’t have the right to a British passport. Irish people both sides of the border will no longer be on an equal footing. Pretty sure that contravenes the GFA.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
He’s a complete fuckwit who makes Diane Abbott look competent. Although this is just typical of the governments handling of brexit.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
these are the countries who he claimed would be queuing up to sign trade deals with us the day after we leave. Instead of that they're objecting to our proposed WTO schedules. What a fucking cretin he is.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I can't see it happening as a no deal. The EU needs a deal just like we do. They try to get deals all over the world. Why would they suddenly not want a deal with us?
Of course they want to make things difficult for us. They don't want others to leave. They want to get as much as they can out of us. And they certainly don't want us to leave. They haven't given up on trying to make us stay in yet.
The people making it difficult for the UK are closer to home. DUP and ERG. DUP are only interested in their own narrow agenda. ERG is funded by Americans and no one knows who all the members are and what their real motives are. Seeing as there is big money behind it and monied people like Rees Mogg are the figureheads, I would „guess“ that they are not interested in the forgotten people or the future of the UK and/ or Northern Ireland.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The Italian government isn't far-right, it's a coalition made up of a far-left leaning party and a far-right leaning party.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
He really is a moron and should be nowhere near such a position, especially after he was forced to resign previously.
WTO: „Several countries have expressed reservations“. Which translated means 20 countries, including the USA, China and Russia, are blocking the UK‘s „cut and paste“ trade deal plan. We will definitely have a worse deal than under EU WTO conditions and the WTO membership deal will take years to complete, as will individual trade deals. As predicted. Even Fox now says that the „reservations“ were expected. He forgot to mention that before. Why are we still going ahead with Brexit? Oh, Blackwater are not moving as many staff as expected to the EU ( yet ), and shareholders stopped Unilever moving to Holland therefore maintaining the status quo. But, those are not benefits. Where are the benefits?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
There are no benefits to it whatsoever, it has become about personal ideology and it's going to leave the UK bitterly divided for the foreseeable future. If it goes start to go wrong it'll only get worse and worse.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Pretty much the same then
Hahaha... probably why he calls me a fascist one day and thinks I am a Corbyn supporter the next...
No. Far right has less members of parliament than 5Star. So far right leaning rather than far right.
Conte Cabinet - Wikipedia