Bakayoko (19 Viewers)

[steve82]

There was that one game it happened so many times, remember screen printing all of the times McNulty was clean through as people wouldn't have it. McNulty went apeshit at one of them as well.

And there was still some thinking he was the best thing going...... despite photographic evidence showing his selfishness.

Flair player yes, team player... not a chance! Fizzled out very quickly after Morecambe I think, Carlisle being the final straw.

Still that cuppa at half time at Lincoln did something as 80% of his warm up routine sat in the dugout.


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[SkyBlueCRJ]

True, could have either / or on the bench to mix it up!

It also depends who he plays on the wings.

Well that's a different debate altogether. We'd need someone instead of Hiwula on the left, which I think is a given. Good player and scores goals but he lacks the creative knowhow to regularly causes issues for the opposition on that left side. Jones could be an option but god only knows when he'll be back to full fitness.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Perhaps that's why he bought him. If Robins can get him playing with effort then perhaps he has the attributes to be a top player. A gamble for sure, but that's where we are as a club - playing the odds.

IMO a good work ethic is something that is extremely difficult to teach at Bakayoko's age. Not saying it's impossible but he's nearly 23...he's hardly a teenager.

 

[skybluegod]

It's a weird one, I just got the impression that in games when the ball gets played onto his head with nobody else around him he loses interest quickly and gets pissed off. (see Blackpool). Whereas you have players like Chaplin who will run all day chasing lost causes whether they think they will win them or not.

Against Oxford in the cup he did a fair bit of running, he was chasing down their full backs and put in a few tackles as well to press from the front and got dragged at half time.

Then you have games like Charlton and Plymouth where we played to his strengths and he could link up with players around him which made him look a much better player with a good touch to lay the ball off and then make runs in behind to get the ball back.

Tend to agree with Nick on this, I wasn't at the game but get what you are saying.

The mistake Robins made was that he brought on his most gifted players, but perhaps not the player to suit the game.

Chaplin I think many agree is the better striker, however if the game doesn't suit him he isn't going to be effective, the feel i got for the game was that it would suit Baka better, because of the traits Nick has said, If we had it may have made the Walsall midfield drop deeper, and given us more control to then go on and snatch an equalizer.

 

[Nick]

IMO a good work ethic is something that is extremely difficult to teach at Bakayoko's age. Not saying it's impossible but he's nearly 23...he's hardly a teenager.

The offsides at Blackpool were shocking. In other games when people have moaned it's usually been about work rate and not chasing the ball down etc. Those games he has usually been a lone striker so he's effectively just playing piggy in the middle with the defenders. Oxford in the cup he was doing a lot of running with not much reward and got dragged off, remember he ran pretty much the width of the pitch to close a full back down and block his cross / pass.

When he has had others close to him and actually got the ball at a height below his head he has actually had a decent touch to bring others into play and then made runs.

He comes across as somebody who won't break his back if he thinks there isn't much chance of it happening. (closing down the keeper when he knows he is going to pass it round him etc)

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's a weird one, I just got the impression that in games when the ball gets played onto his head with nobody else around him he loses interest quickly and gets pissed off. (see Blackpool). Whereas you have players like Chaplin who will run all day chasing lost causes whether they think they will win them or not.

Against Oxford in the cup he did a fair bit of running, he was chasing down their full backs and put in a few tackles as well to press from the front and got dragged at half time.

Then you have games like Charlton and Plymouth where we played to his strengths and he could link up with players around him which made him look a much better player with a good touch to lay the ball off and then make runs in behind to get the ball back.

Bakayoko gets the ball fired at his head because he doesn't work hard enough off the ball to make himself available, very frustrating player

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

The offsides at Blackpool were shocking. In other games when people have moaned it's usually been about work rate and not chasing the ball down etc. Those games he has usually been a lone striker so he's effectively just playing piggy in the middle with the defenders. Oxford in the cup he was doing a lot of running with not much reward and got dragged off, remember he ran pretty much the width of the pitch to close a full back down and block his cross / pass.

When he has had others close to him and actually got the ball at a height below his head he has actually had a decent touch to bring others into play and then made runs.

He comes across as somebody who won't break his back if he thinks there isn't much chance of it happening. (closing down the keeper when he knows he is going to pass it round him etc)

Exactly. How would you teach that? Breaking your back for your team, as you say, is something that's either ingrained within a player or it isn't. Teaching that to Bakayoko would be a full time job.

 

[Nick]

Bakayoko gets the ball fired at his head because he doesn't work hard enough off the ball to make himself available, very frustrating player

That's been the issue with all of our attempts at lone strikers this season pretty much. Him, Biamou and JCH.

Even last year we saw it that they needed somebody around them to work with.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

When?

Off the top of my head: Biamou and Nazon subs in first game v Notts, both assisted goals.
Nazon, Shipley both scored at Luton,
Reid made Biamou’s equaliser at Newport, both subs.
Biamou 2 against Yeovil, came on as a sub
Biamou sub at Crawley, changed game
Ponticelli at Notts County
Even against Accrington last week, Jones was sub, his shot lead to Doyle’s goal. These are subs that I can remember. Looking game by game in the fixtures that Robins has managed would, I am sure, give a lot more instances. The ones above are mainly goal scoring or goal making substitutes. I am sure there are lots of examples where subs have positively influenced the result without making or assisting a goal, such as Biamou’s performance at Crawley.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You said that he would only bring on his best / main striker. So that means he was only ever going to bring on Chaplin regardless of how the game is going.

Where have I said he would have scored?I said his attributes would have helped us push them back a bit and at least try to get at them.

In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not Mark Robins so my interpretation of his decision making is not really valid. Certainly not a valid criticism of MR because I said ‘you bring on your main/best striker.’ That’s also a dumbing down my argument. Clearly Robins thinks Chaplin is a better striker than Bakayoko and it’s evident that Robins felt Chaplin was a better change to make in this particular game. The JCH and Chaplin partnership is working v well in the league and our best opportunity to get an equaliser came through their link up play. JCH wins a header, flicked it on to Chaplin who controlled the ball and whipped the ball into a dangerous area and Walsall cleared it. In 15 or so minutes, there wasn’t really time for us to do anything.

Also, if you’re not saying he’d have scored, you’re more or less conceding you wouldn’t have made a change that would’ve changed the outcome of the game. In short, you’re venting about the game as opposed to constructively criticising the manager.

To weigh in on this Bakayoko debate as a whole, there’s evidence to suggest Robins rates his potential. Whilst he isn’t good enough to start for us right now, perhaps if the coaching team can work on a few things with him, he could become a v good striker. It’s worth adding that a club with our budget can’t just waste 200-300k on a player they see nothing in.

 

[Nick]

In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not Mark Robins so my interpretation of his decision making is not really valid. Certainly not a valid criticism of MR because I said ‘you bring on your main/best striker.’ That’s also a dumbing down my argument. Clearly Robins thinks Chaplin is a better striker than Bakayoko and it’s evident that Robins felt Chaplin was a better change to make in this particular game. The JCH and Chaplin partnership is working v well in the league and our best opportunity to get an equaliser came through their link up play. JCH wins a header, flicked it on to Chaplin who controlled the ball and whipped the ball into a dangerous area and Walsall cleared it. In 15 or so minutes, there wasn’t really time for us to do anything.

Also, if you’re not saying he’d have scored, you’re more or less conceding you wouldn’t have made a change that would’ve changed the outcome of the game. In short, you’re venting about the game as opposed to constructively criticising the manager.

To weigh in on this Bakayoko debate as a whole, there’s evidence to suggest Robins rates his potential. Whilst he isn’t good enough to start for us right now, perhaps if the coaching team can work on a few things with him, he could become a v good striker. It’s worth adding that a club with our budget can’t just waste 200-300k on a player they see nothing in.

Obviously Robins thought Chaplin was a better change as he put them on, it isn't hindsight to disagree considering people at the ground and in the match thread were saying it before he made the change for Chaplin.

How can I categorically say he would have come on and scored? I am saying the way was going, from what I have seen of him and Chaplin. He would have been better suited to make more of a difference.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Off the top of my head: Biamou and Nazon subs in first game v Notts, both assisted goals.
Nazon, Shipley both scored at Luton,
Reid made Biamou’s equaliser at Newport, both subs.
Biamou 2 against Yeovil, came on as a sub
Biamou sub at Crawley, changed game
Ponticelli at Notts County
Even against Accrington last week, Jones was sub, his shot lead to Doyle’s goal. These are subs that I can remember. Looking game by game in the fixtures that Robins has managed would, I am sure, give a lot more instances. The ones above are mainly goal scoring or goal making substitutes. I am sure there are lots of examples where subs have positively influenced the result without making or assisting a goal, such as Biamou’s performance at Crawley.

Nazon was sub at Lincoln and scored the winner

 

[steve82]

That's been the issue with all of our attempts at lone strikers this season pretty much. Him, Biamou and JCH.

Even last year we saw it that they needed somebody around them to work with.

Correct, it just doesn’t work very well for the group like last years too.


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[Skybluefaz]

Off the top of my head: Biamou and Nazon subs in first game v Notts, both assisted goals.
Nazon, Shipley both scored at Luton,
Reid made Biamou’s equaliser at Newport, both subs.
Biamou 2 against Yeovil, came on as a sub
Biamou sub at Crawley, changed game
Ponticelli at Notts County
Even against Accrington last week, Jones was sub, his shot lead to Doyle’s goal. These are subs that I can remember. Looking game by game in the fixtures that Robins has managed would, I am sure, give a lot more instances. The ones above are mainly goal scoring or goal making substitutes. I am sure there are lots of examples where subs have positively influenced the result without making or assisting a goal, such as Biamou’s performance at Crawley.

People want to try and find fault in something that isn't there.

 

[pusbccfc]

Off the top of my head: Biamou and Nazon subs in first game v Notts, both assisted goals.
Nazon, Shipley both scored at Luton,
Reid made Biamou’s equaliser at Newport, both subs.
Biamou 2 against Yeovil, came on as a sub
Biamou sub at Crawley, changed game
Ponticelli at Notts County
Even against Accrington last week, Jones was sub, his shot lead to Doyle’s goal. These are subs that I can remember. Looking game by game in the fixtures that Robins has managed would, I am sure, give a lot more instances. The ones above are mainly goal scoring or goal making substitutes. I am sure there are lots of examples where subs have positively influenced the result without making or assisting a goal, such as Biamou’s performance at Crawley.

Biamou v Yeovil despite losing 6-2 and Ponticelli? We also lost.

The rest I do agree with, but on the whole there were far too many times when he left the subs too late last season.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Biamou v Yeovil despite losing 6-2 and Ponticelli? We also lost.

The rest I do agree with, but on the whole there were far too many times when he left the subs too late last season.

(Citation needed)

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Biamou v Yeovil despite losing 6-2 and Ponticelli? We also lost.

The rest I do agree with, but on the whole there were far too many times when he left the subs too late last season.

Both were subs who came on and scored. So effective subs are only those who make sure the team draw or win? I think the criteria should be did a substitution positively affect the team. Biamou and Ponticelli both made a positive impact.
How does the impact of Robin’s substitutions compare with a more effective manager? Can you say who is a better manager in this aspect of the role than Robin’s?