The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (287 Viewers)

[dutchman]

The people voted for leave and it has ended in a disaster.

What 'disaster' is that? I live here and I've yet to see any difference.

 

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[Grendel]

You can have a post-legislative referendum as we had on the parliamentary voting system.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You've said yourself the referendum was not legally binding so why are you still arguing that it was?

You can make all the arguments you like about will of the people, elections after the referendum, what was in a leaflet or anything else, many of which I would agree with but it doesn't change the very simple fact that the referendum was not legally binding.

I repeat we can’t have a legally binding referendum

We can have a referendum which the government if the day commits to honour the outcome - this was quite clearly the case in this campaign.

You seem to me adopting mad Mart tin foil mentality

As we can’t have a legally binding referendum without an Act of Parliament I assume you’d be ok if the government had another referendum and ignored its outcome.

Would that be ok?

 

[Sick Boy]

"If we need to leave with no deal and negotiate a free trade agreement during the transition period, so be it. Let’s be clear and honest and tell the EU that’s what we are prepared to do."

David Davis: There has long been an alternative to this discredited deal. It’s the Canada-style plan that Tusk and Barnier offered us. | Conservative Home

First there was his belief that the UK could make trade deals with individual EU countries and now this. It's hard to believe he was Brexit Secretary and has recently been touted as a potential leader.

This is insane.

 

[martcov]

I repeat we can’t have a legally binding referendum

We can have a referendum which the government if the day commits to honour the outcome - this was quite clearly the case in this campaign.

You seem to me adopting mad Mart tin foil mentality

As we can’t have a legally binding referendum without an Act of Parliament I assume you’d be ok if the government had another referendum and ignored its outcome.

Would that be ok?

We had one for PR.

 

[martcov]

What 'disaster' is that? I live here and I've yet to see any difference.

Put the Tele on and watch the unfolding disaster. We don’t have a government at the moment. The DUP are not playing ball any more.

 

[martcov]

I repeat we can’t have a legally binding referendum

We can have a referendum which the government if the day commits to honour the outcome - this was quite clearly the case in this campaign.

You seem to me adopting mad Mart tin foil mentality

As we can’t have a legally binding referendum without an Act of Parliament I assume you’d be ok if the government had another referendum and ignored its outcome.

Would that be ok?

Seeing as there is already a law that you cannot give more power to the EU without a further referendum, there is now an argument that making the UK a vassal state for the transition period, requires a further referendum. Unless you repeal the 2011 act.

Why a second Brexit referendum is required by law

 

[martcov]

I repeat we can’t have a legally binding referendum

We can have a referendum which the government if the day commits to honour the outcome - this was quite clearly the case in this campaign.

You seem to me adopting mad Mart tin foil mentality

As we can’t have a legally binding referendum without an Act of Parliament I assume you’d be ok if the government had another referendum and ignored its outcome.

Would that be ok?

Are you arguing that parliament is sovereign? I thought leavers believe that we are not a sovereign nation, with a sovereign parliament. Funny that when it suits, our parliament becomes sovereign again.

And if referenda are only advisory, as in this case, there is no legal requirement to either see this crap through, or reverse the 2016 one.

Let’s have another one anyway, and decide whether to enforce it or not when we have the result.

After that, ban all future UK wide referenda. As they have in Germany after bad experiences in the past.

 

[martcov]

I repeat we can’t have a legally binding referendum

We can have a referendum which the government if the day commits to honour the outcome - this was quite clearly the case in this campaign.

You seem to me adopting mad Mart tin foil mentality

As we can’t have a legally binding referendum without an Act of Parliament I assume you’d be ok if the government had another referendum and ignored its outcome.

Would that be ok?

Finality is not the language of poilitics. Not Mad Mart tin foil mentality, before you go to your normal insults. Benjamin Disraeli.

It is also true as with the Welsh devolution issue. At first drastically rejected by the voters in the 70s and then passed in the 90s.

The worse this gets, the greater the demand to put the brakes on, or at least to be able to decide whether to put the brakes on. You see leading Brexit proponents like Rees Mogg or BoJo or Davis making absolute fools of themselves. These were once popular figures who people put their trust in. Now lost and not even able to bring May down in her weakest moment. Pity we don’t have a popular opposition leader to wipe the floor with them and their American billionaire „think tank“ backers and save the UK from being sold to US extreme capitalism. Which is where the money behind the think tank propaganda comes from. Not even going down the Russian road, where other vested interests lie. The whole thing stinks. The losers will be the poor, as they already are according to the UN. The greatest winners will be the people who put the money and resources into the leave propaganda, targeting and professional marketing. All coordinated with help of the gang photographed in Trump‘s golden lift. The Brexit elite.

 

[Gazolba]

the problem is we need an expanding population to increase tax income and fund care and services for the increasingly aging population. This is going to be one of the big political issues in the next few decades.

So you need more young people to fund the increasing older generation.
But then when those young people get old, you need even more young people to fund them in old age.
The system continues to feed on itself until eventually you reach a point where everyone in the world is elderly except a few 20 year old couples who need to have a million children each.

An expanding population cannot be sustainable in the long term.
More people means more natural resources consumed, more space taken up and more pollution.
Eventually you will run out of space, natural resources and destroy the environment.
We need a whole different economic system that does not depend on growth.
It's not impossible to think that the brainpower of a nation could not come up with a solution.
Of course there is no political or public will to do it, so we are doomed in the long term.
I cannot see us colonising another planet.

 

[dutchman]

Put the Tele on and watch the unfolding disaster. We don’t have a government at the moment. The DUP are not playing ball any more.

And it hasn't made the slightest difference to everyday life here.

 

[Gazolba]

But today's workers are the futures pensioners. If they have paid their taxes they need to be looked after. That is what our system is designed for. Then they have earned their pension.

The big question is where does it end.

It ends when the money runs out.
As Margaret Thatcher said "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

 

[clint van damme]

So you need more young people to fund the increasing older generation.
But then when those young people get old, you need even more young people to fund them in old age.
The system continues to feed on itself until eventually you reach a point where everyone in the world is elderly except a few 20 year old couples who need to have a million children each.

An expanding population cannot be sustainable in the long term.
More people means more natural resources consumed, more space taken up and more pollution.
Eventually you will run out of space, natural resources and destroy the environment.
We need a whole different economic system that does not depend on growth.
It's not impossible to think that the brainpower of a nation could not come up with a solution.
Of course there is no political or public will to do it, so we are doomed in the long term.
I cannot see us colonising another planet.

That's basically what I was saying but you've examined it far better than I did.

 

[clint van damme]

It ends when the money runs out.
As Margaret Thatcher said "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Just look at what has happened with Carrillion and the East coast rail line if you want an example of a government wasting other people's money.

 

[martcov]

And it hasn't made the slightest difference to everyday life here.

Give it time..

 

[Grendel]

Just look at what has happened with Carrillion and the East coast rail line if you want an example of a government wasting other people's money.

I think Mr Corbyns utopian role model of an economy - Venuezula is a far more telling example

 

[clint van damme]

I think Mr Corbyns utopian role model of an economy - Venuezula is a far more telling example

it's really not.

 

[Ian1779]

I think Mr Corbyns utopian role model of an economy - Venuezula is a far more telling example

But strangely ignore examples like in Scandinavia where it works effectively.

 

[clint van damme]

But strangely ignore examples like in Scandinavia where it works effectively.

and the national investment bank is another idea the neo liberals try to smear but the KfW seems to work OK in Germany.
I think they might be worried that they can kiss goodbye to the scandalous PFI interest payments funded from the public purse, (and yes, I know it was Labour who introduced them when the war criminal was at the helm).

 

[Captain Dart]

But strangely ignore examples like in Scandinavia where it works effectively.

Redefining socialism. Sweden, Norway and Finland are democratic capitalist countries.

 

[Astute]

You two should join the campaign for a second vote as you're both doing a brilliant job of showing that people didn't actually know what they were voting on.

I'm actually quite shocked. DIdn't realise there was people who were claiming the result was legally binding.

What in the EU Referendum act makes you think that?

Shocked?

Why is it I am not surprised that you can't show anything where the referendum wasn't supposed to take us out of the EU if we voted leave?

Why aren't we having mass protests on the streets because the referendum wasn't supposed to be taking us out of the EU?

Who voted thinking that is was just an idea on public thought and not taking us out of the EU?

Exactly.

 

[martcov]

Shocked?

Why is it I am not surprised that you can't show anything where the referendum wasn't supposed to take us out of the EU if we voted leave?

Why aren't we having mass protests on the streets because the referendum wasn't supposed to be taking us out of the EU?

Who voted thinking that is was just an idea on public thought and not taking us out of the EU?

Exactly.

We are having mass protests because we don’t do referenda in the UK. Parliament is sovereign. We have only ever had 3 referenda in our history. The first EEC was luckily a clear majority which put the question to bed for most people. The second was AV which was made binding. The third is a disaster because it was flawed from the start. People couldn’t claim they knew what the were voting for as they still don’t know. And, yes there will be more protests because there is not a people’s mandate for any particular leave scenario. Happy with the advisory referendum?

 

[martcov]

Redefining socialism. Sweden, Norway and Finland are democratic capitalist countries.

With high taxes and generous benefits.

 

[Grendel]

But strangely ignore examples like in Scandinavia where it works effectively.

We have a far more socialist approach than those countries who heavily tax individuals and goods.

 

[Sick Boy]

Jeremy Corbyn: I would vote to remain in the EU in a second referendum

Jeremy Corbyn wants Britain to remain in the EU — but here are all the times he said it was bad

To be fair, he said the other week that he wouldn't know which way to vote.

The talk of Davis being touted as a potential interim prime minister should be much more concerning.

 

[skybluetony176]

We have a far more socialist approach than those countries who heavily tax individuals and goods.

So why do Scandinavian countries consistently rate as the happiest countries in the world? I suggest that you’ve taken a very simplistic view of two areas of their tax systems and misunderstood their pay scales, working practices and general mentality.

 

[dutchman]

We are having mass protests because we don’t do referenda in the UK.

I don't see hundreds of thousands of people in yellow jackets blockading the roads in England.

 

[martcov]

I don't see hundreds of thousands of people in yellow jackets blockading the roads in England.

There were over half a million wearing blue with stars recently .. did you miss that, or were you getting confused with the 4 people attending the UKIP demo in Downing Street?

 

[Ian1779]

Redefining socialism. Sweden, Norway and Finland are democratic capitalist countries.

Or maybe the idea that certain people in this country find the responsibility of adequately providing for the young, old and vulnerable to be a left-wing extreme idea and therefore dangerous.

Maybe says more about our country than theirs.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

With high taxes and generous benefits.

Yeah so redefining socialism

 

[dutchman]

There were over half a million wearing blue with stars recently ..

Last time I looked there were no blue stars on the British flag, must have all been foreigners (or traitors).

 

[Astute]

Last time I looked there were no blue stars on the British flag, must have all been foreigners (or traitors).

Ask people on the street and they are supposed to say that we should stay in the EU. Let people vote for their choice and they vote leave. I wonder where those they ask on the street come from.

The ratings on May have recently gone up to close to 50%. Those who want her gone is 33%. I think people have finally realised what a difficult job she has taken on.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don't see hundreds of thousands of people in yellow jackets blockading the roads in England.

What has a domestic policy on diesel go to do with the EU?

Oh, and apart from this protest which was on the same weekend? - Dozens arrested after climate protest blocks five London bridges

 

[Sick Boy]

The ratings on May have recently gone up to close to 50%. Those who want her gone is 33%. I think people have finally realised what a difficult job she has taken on.

A difficult job? A lot of it is self-inflicted by both herself and her own party and through putting people in roles for exiting the EU when they didn't seem to even understand how it worked.

Polls also showed that they were supposed to win the last election easily too.

 

[dutchman]

What has a domestic policy on diesel go to do with the EU?

It's about more than fuel prices, it's about the traitor-Macron's austerity policies in general, his obsession with globalisation and France's subservience to the European central bank.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's about more than fuel prices, it's about the traitor-Macron's austerity policies in general, his obsession with globalisation and France's subservience to the European central bank.

It's strange that domestic issues seem to get twisted into being a direct attack on the EU. The key driving force behind the protesters was related to increased fuel prices, anyway, it's not like our own governments have historically been on the side of the people, as demonstrated by the recent UN report - again all domestically inflicted.