Appeal Dismissed (14 Viewers)

[Irish Sky Blue]

If you're going to assign blame, then I'd start with the people who sold to the rugby franchise without putting something in place to guarantee that the club would have the right to a deal at the stadium. You know, the ones who said that the critical part of the deal was that the football club would not be disadavantaged. Maybe you forgot that bit?

I don't really get why people are so worried about the legal action, if it's bullshit then it'll eventually come to an end and SISU will have to pay the loser's costs (which will be substantial). If it isn't bullshit then one potential remedy is that Wasps may have to pay more to the Council for the stadium. I don't have a particular issue with either of those outcomes.

Wasps and the Council must have been well aware that the deal that they were doing had elements of legal risk, especially given the past history of the stadium and the SISU/Council court battles. Presumably this is why there were the flat-out lies from the council denying it, and all of the other secrecy around the sale. Wasps and the Council chose to push on and take that risk - why would I have sympathy about them having to defend it until the legal process is exhausted? It's the way the law works.

There's no actual reason for this to stop Wasps doing a short-term deal with the club, as they have done before. People who want to pitch it as all SISU's fault are looking at it with one-eye closed, imho.

I’m not going to get bogged down in another debate about Sisu. We all know what they have done and continue to do to our club. The very first statement above however ignores the fact that the Council sold to Wasps after Sisu had tried to distress ACL by taking the club to Northampton. To not blame Sisu for this and all of the other wrongs they have committed seems equally one eyed. The hammer blow in all of this was the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps but to simply blame the council alone for that ignores all Sisu did to precipitate the sale.

 

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[Nick]

I’m not going to get bogged down in another debate about Sisu. We all know what they have done and continue to do to our club. The very first statement above however ignores the fact that the Council sold to Wasps after Sisu had tried to distress ACL by taking the club to Northampton. To not blame Sisu for this and all of the other wrongs they have committed seems equally one eyed. The hammer blow in all of this was the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps but to simply blame the council alone for that ignores all Sisu did to precipitate the sale.

He didn't actually say SISU shouldn't be blamed for anything did he?

This is why threads where people mention the council go on for ages. People seem to read somebody saying something about another party as saying SISU are great and shouldn't be at fault.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Why not go at both? Why use the word allegedly?

I say allegedly because you seem blinded, it’s attack SISU group. Forget them for a moment focus on the short term, one thing at a time.

By all means though, go after both, stop cosying up to the group actively threatening to kick us out of a stadium built for us. I only suggested wasps now because that needs to be dealt with now. SISU next.

 

[Magwitch]

No use protesting until after Tuesday. If SISU decided not to peruse legal action then Wasps have said negotiations can begin. Should SISU decide to continue, then that is the time to talk about serious protests. Wait until after Tuesday ?

Bang on the nail.
As for what can we do if this Wasp threat continues, bad publicity plenty of it too, Wasps won’t want that, already tarnished moving the club 100 miles from its roots to be accused of aiding an established sports club to fold wouldn’t go down very well, poor reputations can hinder things such as sponsorships, advertising etc. We need to see what happens after Tuesday what the Wasp stance is and take it from there.

 

[christonabike]

Wasps will never let the club be successful - they already have offered a 10 year deal which effectively would screw the club and financially ruin them.

They want to be the only show in town and see us as a threat to their absurd ego and ambition

Wasps are the only enemy and need to be removed

Please show me this about the 10 year offer. Plus as I see it they need a tennant to boost their income.

 

[Grendel]

Please show me this about the 10 year offer. Plus as I see it they need a tennant to boost their income.

How can I show it? Still if wasps say it wasn’t presented it must be true - after all;

- “our home is in the south west of London”
- “we will be building an academy creating jobs in Coventry”
- “We are interested in regeneration around the coventry area”
- “our business model is working”
And on and on and on.

They will want us as a tenant but at a price that will suppress any hope of success

 

[CJ_covblaze]

We all go to games. For clarity, Steve hasn’t been on the board for a year or two.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

I say allegedly because you seem blinded, it’s attack SISU group. Forget them for a moment focus on the short term, one thing at a time.

By all means though, go after both, stop cosying up to the group actively threatening to kick us out of a stadium built for us. I only suggested wasps now because that needs to be dealt with now. SISU next.

Fair enough. We’re far from cozying up to them. How are we doing that?

 

[christonabike]

I just want to see the 10 year offer as you stated.
Please show me. I’m not saying you are wrong.

 

[dazed&confused]

How can I show it? Still if wasps say it wasn’t presented it must be true - after all;

- “our home is in the south west of London”
- “we will be building an academy creating jobs in Coventry”
- “We are interested in regeneration around the coventry area”
- “our business model is working”
And on and on and on.

They will want us as a tenant but at a price that will suppress any hope of success

So, just your not-so-educated guess, then? Or do you have some inside information to share with us all?

 

[Nick]

We all go to games. For clarity, Steve hasn’t been on the board for a year or two.

Home games?

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Home games?

I think everyone on the board goes to them bar me.

 

[skybluetony176]

I just want to see the 10 year offer as you stated.
Please show me. I’m not saying you are wrong.

It won’t happen. It’s Grendulls oldest trick. Keep repeating something he’s made up until people start believing it’s true.

 

[Nick]

I think everyone on the board goes to them bar me.

Are you sure?





That's the first 2 I found.

What happened to the smug "raise your hand for away days only?"

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Fair enough. We’re far from cozying up to them. How are we doing that?

Apologise wrong choice of words, It’s more the refusal to condemn them, you’ve been a most welcoming

They’ve literally done what SISU did to us. Yet the trust have never organised anything against them. Wasps should be condemned and reviled.

As I’ve said you have Influence and the ability to organise successful protest. Not once has this been done against Wasps, you’ve never made them uncomfortable.

Hasn’t Moz Baker praised them even? Not 100% (apologies if I’m wrong) you’re right of hitting SISU but right now they’re not going to listen, but just maybe - if the trust can cause an adverse atmosphere and start deterring Wasps fans from coming or just making wasps uncomfortable - we may be able to get them to the table.

Writing to SISU every now and then isn’t going to do much over the next 6 months. But embarrassing Wasps just might

 

[Nick]

Apologise wrong choice of words, It’s more the refusal to condemn them, you’ve been a most welcoming

They’ve literally done what SISU did to us. Yet the trust have never organised anything against them. Wasps should be condemned and reviled.

As I’ve said you have Influence and the ability to organise successful protest. Not once has this been done against Wasps, you’ve never made them uncomfortable.

Hasn’t Moz Baker praised them even? Not 100% (apologies if I’m wrong) you’re right of hitting SISU but right now they’re not going to listen, but just maybe - if the trust can cause an adverse atmosphere and start deterring Wasps fans from coming or just making wasps uncomfortable - we may be able to get them to the table.

Writing to SISU every now and then isn’t going to do much over the next 6 months. But embarrassing Wasps just might

You could count the article with the headline "Coventry City watch from gloom while Wasps make a buzz at Ricoh Arena" that somebody from the Trust participated in:

Talking about one of our games (it wasn't Moz by the way)

It was dire, particularly when compared with the Wasps match which really was a fantastic sporting occasion

Yep, this was after a couple of years of telling everybody how wrong it is to move teams.

I haven't seen anything to the contrary of it.

 

[Grendel]

I just want to see the 10 year offer as you stated.
Please show me. I’m not saying you are wrong.

The offer was suggested to be £750,000 a year with no separation clause after 2 years and some additional clauses which made the rent after 2 years re-negotiable,

How can I show you?

Someone else heard similar though

Surprisingly Grendel isn't definitely wrong on this 750k.
I heard it from an insider from when CA was still here trying to talk about rental deals before talks were called off supposedly because of the court actions etc. Did hear it was for short-term deal and could be a smaller figure for a longer term deal.

As Tony lurking I’ll make it easy for him as he struggles with those pesky links

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Are you sure?





That's the first 2 I found.

What happened to the smug "raise your hand for away days only?"

Andy has been attending. You’re right about Roger though. What do you mean about the raise your hand bit?

 

[skybluetony176]

The offer was suggested to be £750,000 a year with no separation clause after 2 years and some additional clauses which made the rent after 2 years re-negotiable,

How can I show you?

Someone else heard similar though

Coventry City will die if we stay at the Ricoh - Fisher

Suggested by who? Your link is also 2 years old and since then we’ve signed a 1 year extension that wasn’t £750k and was also something that apparently had been suggested to you wouldn’t happen. Based on that what makes you think that anything suggested to you was accurate?

 

[Nick]

Andy has been attending. You’re right about Roger though. What do you mean about the raise your hand bit?

At the trust meeting where there were votes to see who was going to away days only.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Apologise wrong choice of words, It’s more the refusal to condemn them, you’ve been a most welcoming

They’ve literally done what SISU did to us. Yet the trust have never organised anything against them. Wasps should be condemned and reviled.

As I’ve said you have Influence and the ability to organise successful protest. Not once has this been done against Wasps, you’ve never made them uncomfortable.

Hasn’t Moz Baker praised them even? Not 100% (apologies if I’m wrong) you’re right of hitting SISU but right now they’re not going to listen, but just maybe - if the trust can cause an adverse atmosphere and start deterring Wasps fans from coming or just making wasps uncomfortable - we may be able to get them to the table.

Writing to SISU every now and then isn’t going to do much over the next 6 months. But embarrassing Wasps just might

How have I been most welcoming? I’ve been the complete opposite of that.

With regards to writing to SISU we’ve written to Wasps as many times as them when it comes to the current problems.

 

[Nick]

How have I been most welcoming? I’ve been the complete opposite of that.

With regards to writing to SISU we’ve written to Wasps as many times as them when it comes to the current problems.

Think he's on about the trust rather than you as an individual.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

At the trust meeting where there were votes to see who was going to away days only.

If that is when I think it was only Moz, Roger, Rachel and myself are still on the board.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Think he's on about the trust rather than you as an individual.

Ah ok. Apologies. He said “you”.

 

[Grendel]

If that is when I think it was only Moz, Roger, Rachel and myself are still on the board.

When you look at articles like this there is an opportunity for the trust to highlight the threat wasps pose but again it’s the usual sisu soundbytes.

Coventry City: A once great club suffering an 'unmitigated disaster' with no end in sight

 

[CJ_covblaze]

When you look at articles like this there is an opportunity for the trust to highlight the threat wasps pose but again it’s the usual sisu soundbytes.

Coventry City: A once great club suffering an 'unmitigated disaster' with no end in sight

Point taken on board. Thanks.

 

[chiefdave]

Why not go at both?

I would suggest the trust don't have unlimited resources. Therefore it is best to concentrate the resources they do have on a course of action that has the greatest chance of achieving our desired outcome.

I would also suggest, no disrespect intended to anyone, that some of our supporters need a focused, simple, message otherwise it descents in to arguments amongst ourselves over who is to blame for our predicament.

On that basis I would say targeting Wasps has by far the greatest chance of success. There's no point targeting CCFC as nobody there has any say in the legals and targeting SISU directly will do nothing. They don't care if people turn up at their offices to protest and that is always likely to be a damp squib as it needs to be in office hours limiting the numbers that would attend.

Wasps on the other hand have shown themselves to be very sensitive to adverse publicity. They would not want the Trust in the Telegraph, on CWR and Midlands Today publicly calling them out, or even in national media. They wouldn't want their sponsors contacted pointing out the damage their course of action will inflict on CCFC and how that might impact the image locally of any company associated with them. They wouldn't want protests at the Ricoh on their match days making sure their fans known the consequences of Wasps stance and ensuring their fan base knows how the people of Coventry feel rather than being enclosed in a sanitised bubble where everything is great and Wasps can do no wrong.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Ah ok. Apologies. He said “you”.

Yes apologies for the misunderstanding. It was aimed at the trust.

For what it’s worth I’ve actually had conversations with you a couple of time CJ - once at the Colly at the beginning of the trust’s rebirth. I actually find you quite engaging.

We had a difference of an opinion then, but you were willing to talk.

I find the trust quite frustrating, I appreciate the difficulty in arranging things, I also appreciate feelings towards SISU. But at the end of the day we’re all Coventry fans who have seen our team ripped apart and become a nomad team.

The easy ride wasps have had, has frustrated me, they should have been driven out of town years ago, and for me the trust should have been at the forefront of that. Fighting for the members, fans and ultimately CCFC

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Yes apologies for the misunderstanding. It was aimed at the trust.

For what it’s worth I’ve actually had conversations with you a couple of time CJ - once at the Colly at the beginning of the trust’s rebirth. I actually find you quite engaging.

We had a difference of an opinion then, but you were willing to talk.

I find the trust quite frustrating, I appreciate the difficulty in arranging things, I also appreciate feelings towards SISU. But at the end of the day we’re all Coventry fans who have seen our team ripped apart and become a nomad team.

The easy ride wasps have had, has frustrated me, they should have been driven out of town years ago, and for me the trust should have been at the forefront of that. Fighting for the members, fans and ultimately CCFC

I would suggest the trust don't have unlimited resources. Therefore it is best to concentrate the resources they do have on a course of action that has the greatest chance of achieving our desired outcome.

I would also suggest, no disrespect intended to anyone, that some of our supporters need a focused, simple, message otherwise it descents in to arguments amongst ourselves over who is to blame for our predicament.

On that basis I would say targeting Wasps has by far the greatest chance of success. There's no point targeting CCFC as nobody there has any say in the legals and targeting SISU directly will do nothing. They don't care if people turn up at their offices to protest and that is always likely to be a damp squib as it needs to be in office hours limiting the numbers that would attend.

Wasps on the other hand have shown themselves to be very sensitive to adverse publicity. They would not want the Trust in the Telegraph, on CWR and Midlands Today publicly calling them out, or even in national media. They wouldn't want their sponsors contacted pointing out the damage their course of action will inflict on CCFC and how that might impact the image locally of any company associated with them. They wouldn't want protests at the Ricoh on their match days making sure their fans known the consequences of Wasps stance and ensuring their fan base knows how the people of Coventry feel rather than being enclosed in a sanitised bubble where everything is great and Wasps can do no wrong.

Fair enough and I’ll take that on board. If you’re both not doing anything on the 10th come down to the Albany, help us raise a few quid for a great cause and we’ll have another chat. Throw some ideas around about what can be done. Same goes for Grendel.

 

[Nick]

Fair enough and I’ll take that on board. If you’re both not doing anything on the 10th come down to the Albany, help us raise a few quid for a great cause and we’ll have another chat. Throw some ideas around about what can be done. Same goes for Grendel.

What you are basically saying is that they will be ignored because they don't go to meetings.

 

[Nick]

Andy has been attending.

Strange U turn now then?

My point was that the passion seems to be more for protests, fans rights, impressing other clubs fans, supporters direct and all that than the actual football team and the actual focus of what people are angry about has been lost. This is where the other groups that have been started will differ.

I've disagreed with Juggy most of the time when he has phoned into the radio or gone off on one about stuff but you can't really fault what he has setup there.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

What you are basically saying is that they will be ignored because they don't go to meetings.

Where have I said that? They seem to have ideas and want to be proactive. What’s the harm in trying to organising something to galvanise those ideas? If it also can be combined with raising some money for a cause you’ve backed publically and having a bit of fun it makes it even better.

 

[riched1992]

Where have I said that? They seem to have ideas and want to be proactive. What’s the harm in trying to organising something to galvanise those ideas? If it also can be combined with raising some money for a cause you’ve backed publically and having a bit of fun it makes it even better.

Just skim reading this thread, fairplay your patience is impressive!!

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Just skim reading this thread, fairplay your patience is impressive!!

With my job I have to have.

 

[Nick]

Where have I said that? They seem to have ideas and want to be proactive. What’s the harm in trying to organising something to galvanise those ideas? If it also can be combined with raising some money for a cause you’ve backed publically and having a bit of fun it makes it even better.

Because after years of suggesting things, that's exactly what it means.

There was another time I spent an evening writing ideas down after I was asked. Some may have worked, others probably loads of shite. Want to hazard a guess what happened?

Again, you will discuss things and fire fight and fair play to you but once it gets past you it's probably a lost cause.