Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What are you on about? I was talking about EU migration. Just admit you got something wrong for once ffs
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (88 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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What are you on about? I was talking about EU migration. Just admit you got something wrong for once ffs
It's pretty sad that they have to set up a page to dispel the myths that some elements of the UK media have put out relentlessly.
I am not trying to belittle you or anyone else, I have family members with similar views to you. If you take your information from certain sources then it's not surprising that you parrot that information. You may be dismissive of social media, I myself am of facebook, but twitter and reddit are more like news distribution services and are therefore potentially useful. Of course, one can choose to only source info from people who agree with you but that's pretty pointless imo. I studied science so am more persuaded by things that have some grounding in fact. Most of the brexit arguments are rhetorical, emotive and nationalistic. The remain arguments are far more persuasive to me personally.
The strongest predictor of likelihood to vote leave was education. I'm not saying that people who leave school at 15/16 are stupid, I left at 16 myself. I went to uni as a mature student. The point about education is the more you learn, the more you learn how little you know. Things are not simple. There are so many levels to everything.
We can take a gamble that may well ruin the country for generations to come. There doesn't seem to be too much evidence that it will actually return us to the superpower that we once were. Or we can stick with the status quo.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Then you said
So is EU migration illegal immigration or are you having a problem with admitting that you are wrong or mistaken and would prefer to accuse me of what you have done more than just hold your hand up and admit something for once.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I was discussing the 90 day rule and how Italy enforces this and makes checks on EU residents once they’ve registered and denies services to those who do not comply, unless they have funds for themselves.
This was in response to someone say it was completely deregulated, which it is not in that respect. The UK has the option to enforce the same but it does not.
You claimed I said that Italy doesn’t have a problem with illegal immigration, which was an outright lie to back up your argument.
Jesus. This is getting bad now. He told you of his experience in living in Itsly and the controls he had as an EU citizen. Then you moved to illegals. He questioned thst and now you are saying because he questioned it, he was talking about illegals. That is some twisting even for you. It would be easier for you to say, „sorry mate, I got confused“.
Those are quotes from the press. It doesn’t take much or cost a lot of money to fact check this bullshit. There are constant lies coming from the Brexit press.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t know what your definition of without any problems but didn’t the government say it’s a huge problem in Italy and they are trying to find a way of removing half a million illegal immigrants.
He said „it’s enforced in Italy“. It being the 90 day rule for legal EU FOM migrants. You are now on about illegal immigration. Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU or FOM.... which was brought up by Astute.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There are two paragraphs in his comment - the second giving his view on illegal immigrants
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Illegal immigration here and in Italy is very different, especially as a lot of the African countries try and refuse to have their own citizens returned to them. The comment about illegal immigration was referencing the UK, not Italy.
Bizarrely Astute claimed I said Italy has zero problems with illegal immigration.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Good, it’s the worst deal in history. It will be rightly voted down.
I’ve been calling for Mrs May to go for a while now stating she is the problem. This might finally be it but I’m not holding my breath.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I don’t think it has any chance of getting though. The problem the country has is that there’s not a lot of options to take over from her.
The likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg were good at sounding off without a lot of substance and they seem to have gone quiet after the no confidence letters, especially Rees Mogg.
Both Davis and Raab have shown shocking incompetence considering their previous positions.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Scientists often disagree, argue over & dispute scientific data.
Are you suggesting the EU set up a page to dispel 'myths' as propogated by the UK media? And these 'myths' are not held in similar esteem elsewhere?
Wonder what 'certain sources' you believe of which I am a 'parrot'...but let me assure you that you are almost certainly wrong if I am guessing correctly.
I am dissmissive of, or at least take with a pinch of salt, most media in whatever form you care to mention.
As for levels - you are absolutely correct. Ypu talk of ruining the country for generations, whereas others would argue that continuing on the same path as the EU will lead us to ruin anyway. Both camps talk mostly of the economy (growth...unsustainable in the modern world imo) businesses & money. Like keeping a ship on a steady course, though all its crew are dying of starvation or whatever. What about the overall quality of life?!
There are few ethics in politics...that is why Labour will not support ANY circumstance for Brexit as they seem to see its rejection as an opportunity to create the right kind of chaos to suit them...& bring them to power.
As for the status quo...scientist you say???
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s clealy a tactic from her and the dribbling remainers to delay leaving and not leave at all
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
1. No, I didn't. But suppose that Gordon Brown really is the one man who has ruined them for good. Which generation is he part of? Same goes for Tony's illegal war.
2. Where did I talk about house prices???
3. Point being?
4. Coal is finished not for environmental reasons but because Thatcher shut it down once and for all. The changes being made now are too small and too late in the day. Yes, it would help a lot if humans went veggie overnight because producing and processing meat is a carbon intensive process. Are you a sceptic or not?
Baffling lines of argument.
Ok mate, I give up.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Outright lie? You gave me a mini lecture on why we can't remove illegal immigrants but other countries can. Mart agreed with you as always. So then I posted a link on how Germany has problems deporting anyone and then I posted a l8nk showing Italy also has a problem deporting anyone.
Suddenly you didn't say this
Of course you didn't say it. Yet we can all see it in black and white. You are talking about illegal immigrants. Or would you like to explain how illegal immigrants came with an EU passport.
Of course you won't. Nothing changes on this thread.if you get it wrong you blame me for it. Or say I put the words in your mouth.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
You were saying we don't but others in the EU do. So no you didn't name Italy or Germany. But I gave links for Germany on behalf of your pal Mart and Italy for you.
So name the countries in the EU that don't have a problem deporting illegal immigrants.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
The UN are trying to facilitate migration. Many countries have refused to sign this agreement including Australia, Italy & Hungry, Bulgaria, Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic and Croatia
Global compact for migration
There is a HoP petition but I bet May signs. The press have been spectacularly silent on this.
Petition: The UK should not agree the UN's Global Compact for Migration
The conversation started about FOM and got somehow deflected into nothing to do with FOM.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I didn’t get anything wrong. I was talking about the UK not imposing EU rules for EU working migrants and you somehow included non EU economic migrants and those claiming asylum.
You then made up claims that I’d said something completely different to back up your argument.
As I’ve said before, not everything is about you. Yet again you’ve made it about yourself and played the victim.
It would have been better to discuss why the UK hasn’t bothered to impose the 90 day rule and why most people are actually unaware of it and that the Uk has bothered to use it.
Also how is it going to work post-Brexit? IMO Brexit will make it more likely that ID cards are introduced in the future.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’s bizarre, isn’t it?
They are not trying to facilitate migration, they are trying to introduce uniform rules to cover migration. The alternative is to say it doesn’t exist.
Yes. And Astute posts links about German problems returning non EU criminals to war zones. Absolutely nothing to do with FOM, which he claims is not regulated, but is subject to conditions which are enforced by countries such as Italy which you yourself have experienced. Instead of admitting the obvious, it’s off on another tact about illegal immigrants.
I cannot understand the objections of Conservatives to ID cards. I am for FOM and people getting benefits to alleviate hardship. Things that some on here don’t like. On the other hand, I am for measures to stop people taking advantage of the system. If we are giving people benefits and rights, then it seems obvious that we should have a means of ensuring that the right people get these. Cameron binned the ID cards as soon as he took over. Other EU countries have absolutely no problem with ID cards. Some have blood group, health records, social security number on and you can use them as internet identity. You have the option of what can be read by the authorities. The Estonian ID Card is probably the most advanced. I don’t know how the UK will control who has settled status and who doesn’t without additional bureaucracy. An ID card with the Details of residency, NI, voting rights on it would simplify any system. The UK‘s lax system of identity has allowed fraud of all types.
715 pages. 25,000 posts.
What have we learned, if anything at all?
That Brexit has split the nation?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don't worry national 'Flip Off Foreigners' day is not in any jeopardy
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Don't some of you ever take a break from this crap ?
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
..that the majority of voters in the UK are not happy remaining in the European Union as it stands .
Well, you know that is not true. They reached their peak of 52% in June 2016 and it’s been downhill for most of the time since then. Latest figures 54% remain and 46% leave. Chances of May’s Brexit, virtually nil. GE virtually nil. Referendum with remain on the ballot, support growing.
Do you not read or listen or watch what is happening?
It is difficult as it is always on the news, in the headlines and all over the Internet. If you are still relying on carrier pigeons, you may not have noticed the ongoing debates on the subject.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
This crap? It’s probably the most significant domestic political event of our lives.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Whatever some would have you believe, it is looking increasingly likely that there will be a 2nd vote and there is more talk of the EEA option gaining cross party backing.