Sick Boy
Super Moderator
A mate of mine’s dad used to be the builder for a famous Canadian singer and guitarist who moved next to a pub, got annoyed by the noise, so bought it and shut it down.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (148 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
A mate of mine’s dad used to be the builder for a famous Canadian singer and guitarist who moved next to a pub, got annoyed by the noise, so bought it and shut it down.
There wasn't much about brexit (just a bit at the end in audience questions) but I'd never heard of him and he talks a lot of sense.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Redirect Notice
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...-breeder-faces-court-over-noisy-cockerel.html
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&s...aw10vmFWG0pU5KIuPmmgAYDX&ust=1544025904726756
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-14231483
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&s...aw10vmFWG0pU5KIuPmmgAYDX&ust=1544025904726756
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&s...aw10vmFWG0pU5KIuPmmgAYDX&ust=1544025904726756
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/crowing-rooster-drives-couple-to-court.284254/
How many would you like?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There’s loads of cases like that. One I know of is a couple who moved about half a mile away from mildenhall stadium, a motorsports venue for almost a hundred years and promptly tried to close it down because of the noise. They very nearly succeeded and all but bankrupt the family that owns it in the process. Fortunately another promoter took it on and motorsport continues at the venue and it bailed the previous owners out from certain bankruptcy. Apparently they didn’t know it was there when they bought the house despite a permanent sign on the junction their house is situated saying mildenhall stadium half a mile this way amongst other things. They also live on the end of the runway for RAF mildenhall, not sure if they tried their arm with that one.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
That’s insane.
Not directly, but the circumstances described lead to the frustration that many people have. They voted leave, although that was not the answer to the question as to how to change things for the better. The very people that they should be wary of, offered Brexit as the answer. It isn’t. The answer he gives is probably right.. that the government invests in public health, education and care. Not what the hard core Brexiteers want... deregulation and lower taxes.
I had a newly qualified lawyer move in to our flats. Called the police on a „talk music“ event on a Sunday evening. And then tried to get the neighbours to join in getting me closed. The event was a favour for local „lefties“ and the American musicians/ poetry readers‘ next gig was actually at the Canal Basin in Coventry. Small world. My pub actually got a positive right up in an anarchist paper because of the police raid. Although the was a disclaimer that the authors weren’t regulars in my „conservative style“ pub.
Yes, it was more on the general rise of populism. Don't know if you caught it but maybe the 3rd audience question at the end asked 'why did the british vote for brexit?', to which he answered 'because they are morons!', and then pointed out all the good points of EU membership, alongside our keeping the pound, vetos etc putting us in the best position in europe.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not strange at all. They were expected to vote on something that they don't know the details of. Nothing unusual for the Tories. The difference this time is that many don't want it to go through whatever the details are and then others want to know the details to help them to decide. What surprised me was how close the vote was. 311 to 293.
Seeing as it is the first time in parliamentary history that a government has been found in contempt of parliament then, yes, 'strange days' is an appropriate response.
Next time your genius mind is going to predict something absolutely unique in parliamentary history it might be a good thing to predict it before it actually happens and then you'll get the intellectual kudos that your galaxy brain obviously deserves.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Well done to Grieve, he's brought a bit of power back to the house who are ultimately accountable to the electorate, rather than placing it in the hands of an idiot Prime Minister and her assumptions.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Not the best example of his stuff but there's a fair bit on YouTube. He's got some good stuff on austerity.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I have stated already on this thread my reasons for leaving the EU as I believe there will be an inevitable political and fiscal union and an inevitable drain on contributions to support an increasing number of poorer states. One thing I agree on Corbyn and Mcdonnell is that we should not as a nation have an elected government unable to carry out its economic strategy without permission from a parliament in Brussels which half of the EU populous do not even care about (according to the "very positive" 2018 survey)
However, unlike you I have said it was folly to ignore the fact that the 48% who voted to stay and therefore all people need to find a middle ground of compromise. Any normal private business leader would have looked at the alternatives and found a way out. The glaringly obvious move would have been to agree to a Norway style arrangements. It ticks a lot of boxes for leavers and crucially is not a complete separation for remainers - so it is a compromise deal that honours the spirit of the vote but delivers a sensible intent;
We have a reduced financial contribution
We have some ability to trade elsewhere
We have sovereign identity and the laws from the EU are far more restricted in number
Unfortunately you and your ilk believe a second referendum will somehow reverse the decision and eliminate the opposition So if 48% are against the EU next tine around they need to like it or lump it.
The notion "afraid of democracy" - which you have used will bring further division and alienation.
They will of course not lump it. There will be incredible outrage at the EU from them and they will feel even more alienated by the political classes at Westminster. Many have never voted before and will feel anger and resentment. It will not lead to a positive outcome and there would immediately be calls to reverse the decision again. Given the polls are not that dissimilar to last time until the referendum was called it is not beyond possibility that Leave will win again. Then what? It would be utter carnage and we would almost certainly crash out.
I have been convinced for some time that May and her cronies are stage managing a defeat so we can return to the Brussels empire. It is stupid and it will end badly. Parliament will be in contempt with the electorate and vast areas of the country will believe that their voice counts for absolutely nothing. A dangerous place to be.
There are some suggestions that polar opposites in the Tory party are pushing for the Norway solution. For the sake of the country they need to succeed and the country needs to rally to the cause.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The Norway option is the only sensible compromise that would go some way to repairing the damaged country and would be something of a middle ground.
As I said earlier, to completely overturn the result would unleash something very ugly within the country and turn some towards nationalism.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Stop acting like a twat. Or does it make you feel big insulting people?
The vote was close. And some Tories would have voted for it. This means that others that are not Tories would have passed in the chance of hitting the Tories. But no. As usual you want to score points. I left school a lot of years ago. I have better things to do with my time than join in with your childish behaviour.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So is Grieve now your hero?
I thought he was supposed to be one of the baddies in all this.
Yes, I can see that, but the attitude of some was "you lost, get over it". The hard brexiteers saw this "right wing coup" as an opportunity to push through deregulation of worker's rights and enviromental rules. A free for all. Having tried to ignore the remainers, and at the same time some louder figures pushing for a hard Brexit, there should be no surprise at the pushback from people who see that the way Brexit that is evolving won't have economic benefits for most people and is not the answer to the wealth and opportunity gap. May and co don't want the Norway model as they say it doesn't stop FOM. Stopping FOM is seen as a major reason for Brexit by many.
I see the problem of a second referendum landing a similar result to the first and therefore confirming the stalemate. The Norway model would have been more acceptable to most people, but it does look as if the relatively narrow victory was taken literally as 'the will of the people' by some, and expectations were high that we would just leave having used our strong hand to get a cake and eat it deal. The victors have screwed it up, but they will blame May.
So now it's back to the reality of a totally split country with the threat of another referendum looming. This has proved 1. that we are not good at referenda, and 2. the EU of 27 sovereign nations is actually capable of working together to acheive an aim. Neither of which was considered by the people who wanted a referendum.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The Norway option would certainly be a compromise between the two but the May positioned herself and has continued to do so would make anyone think that Leave won with a landslide. It didn’t and therefore a compromise between the two needs to be made, otherwise the country is going to be divided and weakened in the long term future.
And the government should actually listen to these communities who feel left behind and actually invest and turn their attention away from London and the south east
I didn't watch the questions. Had to work.... but I'll check that out. Morons is obviously a bit over the top, but he proved in the lecture, through his figures and graphs, why the people would go for the BS from the likes of populists who simplify everything to the lowest common denominator to make it easy to get their message across without people having to consider the whole picture, such as possible benefits of the EU. Just say EU bad, and give distortions and untruths and many will join the cause, especially if you can create the picture of an enemy by repeating the same catch phrases over and over again.
You are full of shit. You think you know everything, the font of all wisdom in all matters. You're a bullshitter and I can see through your nonsense. I remember when I first started on this site and all you ever went on about was winning every single bet you put on. 'Yeah, got £300 off that, obvious that was gonna happen'. Clown.
Thick as pig shit mate.
I would prefer a landslide remain at some point, but recognise the position the UK is in at this moment in time. The desired benefit of a second vote, which I hope we have, is it if were to give a clear majority either way. Unfortunately, unless something happens soon, or a leading figure takes control with massive political backing and pulls off a fantastic campaign, we will probably be back to square one. But, it may force a compromise by just being talked about, or if it goes ahead and we end up with another close tie. That would be better than what we have on offer now.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I think that's where this viewpoint is going wrong.
I would say more people actually voted for Brexit because people were calling them morons in the first place.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Very well put together response.
The analysis of the second referendum is spot on too.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Clown?
If you remember so much you will also remember I also out my winning betting slips up on here.
Oh good. Another keyboard warrior. Something we miss on here
Astute
Well-Known Member
I know you are. But I even try to treat idiots the same. After all it isn't your fault.
To be honest, I would rather remain than take a Norway deal. It's pretty much the same as being in the EU but with no say. Suits Norway because of their natural resources and gives a massive market for them. They export more to the EU than they import. We're the opposite.
I think that we should not fear a marked movement to the far right. Not even the majority of brexiters are racist aggro merchants even though the referendum seems to have given them a bit of bravado. A decision can be either democratic OR irreversible, it cannot be both.
And yes , totally agree that the communities that have been left to rot, pretty much from Thatchers time onwards, need to be helped. They have been treated disgracefully.
Clown?
If you remember so much you will also remember I also out my winning betting slips up on here.
Oh good. Another keyboard warrior. Something we miss on here
Yeah, some. And then you shut up about them and haven't mentioned your galaxy brain betting skills since. Wonder why. Bullshitter.
Remember the election when you said you only ever vote labour and then spent the next few months disparaging everything they did? Bit like your voting remain isn't it? Weird.
Disagreeing with you and calling out your bullshitting tendencies is really not being a keyboard warrior though. If you were in a pub with me and started the nonsense you come out with here then I would still call it out. Don't like bullshitting know-it-alls. Never have.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I find myself in the curious position where I agree with almost everything Grendull has said. The main exception being that the Norway option will tick all the boxes for leavers. Can't see it. If May's proposal is widely deemed a betrayal by leavers I cant see them liking a Norway option any more but I can see them liking it even less. For me EEA membership was always my preferred option and a leave vote didn't guarantee it so I voted remain as remain was my preferred option to any other version of leave other than EEA membership. Still, at least we've confirmed that out doesn't mean out and leave doesn't mean leave. Someone just needs to break the news to the majority of leavers who continue to use these empty tag lines that the useless MP tagged to garner favour ahead of an ill advised early election. The irony being if she had have stopped the tag line politics for the stupid and committed to EEA membership as an election pledge I suspect that she would have won with a majority and negated any calls for a second referendum in the process. She's backed herself into a corner with knee jerk politics that she got wrong and she doesn't know how to reverse out of it.
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Agree with Tony. The detail in a Norway deal would be no more acceptable to Leavers than Mays current withdrawal agreement, which for me (whilst I appreciate I might be in a minority of one !), barring being able to find a way to exit the backstop unilaterally (possibly after a time limit/if new EU rules implemented disadvantage the UK) is probably the best compromise available to deliver an orderly exit at present. Ultimately if it is genuinely accepted by the EU as a temporary arrangement, the withdrawal agreement ‘should’ (or certainly could) lead to a sensible wider trade agreement.
Norway option is worst of all Brexit outcomes for UK, say EU sources
Norway option is worst of all Brexit outcomes for UK, say EU sources
Ps Corbyn just talks total nonsense on the subject. He said it’s not credible for government to propose a deal ‘to reduce our powers to decide our relationships in future’. I presume he means trading relationships. Labours proposal (other than force general election - which at present is disgraceful politicising, the subject is far too important to try to turn it into a power grab) has always suggested a long term customs union, which would mean free/wider trade agreements with other countries are basically ruled out.
We have trade agreements all over the world through the EU. We lose these when we leave.