Appeal Dismissed (23 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

You might be thinking of the talks Anderson was having with Wasps. When he came in he said he wanted to start afresh with all options on the table with the preference being staying at the Ricoh long term. Think a rolling 10 year deal was mentioned at some point. Both sides reported that talks were progressing well and then Wasps turned round and said they were stopping all talks.

Interestingly a few weeks after leaving Anderson was interviewed by a German paper (he is German) and spoke about how he and his investors had been trying to take over a club. He also mentioned he couldn't discuss Coventry City due to a confidentiality clause but did mention the potential target as an English League One / League Two club. Could Wasps stance have lost us the chance of new owners? We'll probably never know.

Well it won’t be SISU’s fault will it.

 

---

[Captain Dart]

What an absolute cop out.

Question: At the meeting of full council 9th September, 2014, when the sale was unanimously agreed, councillors debated the following:
The commitment that any deal relating to the Ricoh Arena would not be approved unless the following three tests were satisfied:
(1) A good deal for the City
(2) The security and future of Coventry City Football Club
(3) The security and future of Coventry Rugby Club

The then council leader Anne Lucas said at the press conference announcing the sale on October 8, 2014: “This deal would not have happened if it threatened the future of the Sky Blues or Coventry Rugby Club.”

Is the council satisfied these tests are still being met? Does the council have any powers to enforce these?

Joint statement from Cllr George Duggins, Leader of Coventry City Council and Cllr Gary Ridley, Leader of the Opposition Conservative Party, Coventry City Council: “Back in 2014, Coventry City Council was very clear that the existing tenancy the football club had to play at the Ricoh Arena must be honoured as part of any sale to Wasps.

“This tenancy had four years to run and the length was negotiated by the football club as its intention was to then move to a new stadium. As a result, this 2014 pledge was fulfilled by both Coventry City Council and Wasps.



Funnily when they said they mentioned the security and future of the club was a 'pro' for selling the ricoh to wasps they failrd to specify what thet really meant was only for that current 4 year deal only......I wonder why??

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Weasel words indeed. I was at a SBT meeting in the Squirrel when Eastwood spoke & no time limit was mentioned.
The clear impression I was left with was the situation of Wasps allowing CCFC to rent the Arena would persist.
However at that time legal action did not effect Wasps and frankly if a commitment isn't in a contract then any promise is worth stuff all.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

The ridiculous figures that have been banded around as to what SISU wants for the club can’t be motivating at all. Given that they’re so ridiculous I can’t imagine Tim would believe it possible or in the slightest bit likely. If another rumour is true he has apparently tried to bring people in to takeover/invest in the club and SISU have rejected it out of hand.

I'm not arguing that it's a primary reason but it could perhaps be one of many. I don't think there's a singular reason why TF has stayed at the club for such a long period of time. We could debate why that reason is until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is, we'll never know. Originally I would've suggested that he would have received a huge payout if CCFC were successful in acquiring a proportion or all of the Ricoh. But considering that is no longer a viable option perhaps another sweetener was thrown into the mix... If you think about it logically though TF is probably on a respectable income from the business he either runs or is part of. But if he's already doing relatively well then why stay at CCFC? Where's the incentive as surely whatever he's on isn't worth the abuse, hate or the blackspot on his CV. IMO there'll be a motivator somewhere in his contract but we can only guess what it is.

A personal contact who will obviously remain nameless does quite a bit of business in China and he asked TF whether he would allow him to locate and subsequently pitch CCFC to a number of Chinese prospects. TF outright refused. It wouldn't surprise me if he was looking at bringing in investors at one time before the Wasps fiasco but IMO that ship has sailed as SISU are no longer interested in selling because to put it simply there's nothing to sell. Not for the amount they want anyway.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

You do realise that TF is merely a figurehead now and effectively just a bridge between SISU and the club. To put it into context Dave Bobby has zero communication with Joy and, I've heard from reputable sources, has actually never even met her personally. Tim's the only one really she deals with. TF won't stand in the way or pipe up because it's not his job to do so. He's paid a handsome salary to be a yes man and work x amount of days a month by attending perhaps one game a month and pop in now and again at Ryton.

Why would he do anything other than agree with his club's statement? He's there to say everything will be fine and the owners are fully behind the club that's it.

Well the part he has never met her is untrue. He had a conversation with her at Wembley.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Well the part he has never met her is untrue. He had a conversation with her at Wembley.

Fine they met once because they were in the same room and were sat near to each other. In a professional capacity Dave Boddy has never dealt with Joy nor speaks to her. Only repeating what I've heard.

 

[Magwitch]

[QUOTE="JamesCCFC,

A personal contact who will obviously remain nameless does quite a bit of business in China and he asked TF whether he would allow him to locate and subsequently pitch CCFC to a number of Chinese prospects. TF outright refused. It wouldn't surprise me if he was looking at bringing in investors at one time before the Wasps fiasco but IMO that ship has sailed as SISU are no longer interested in selling because to put it simply there's nothing to sell. Not for the amount they want anyway

.[/QUOTE]
This is where this whole thing is so muddy, if as I’m sure it is what you have said re TF is true beggars the question what is his role at ccfc, we are told he has nothing to do with sisu and it’s legals with Council/ Wasps but according to what you say above he has the power to turn down possible buyers or investment, isn’t getting investment in what sisu are about ? When programs like Talksport interview a representative of ccfc it’s always him or seems to be. There has been a list of questions in the Telegrapg recently recently to the relevant parties involved I suggest to them they pin TF down and get from the horses mouth exactly as chairman what his role and duties are.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Aren’t we also supposed to believe that Tim doesn’t get paid? Sure he’s repeatedly said that.

There are two directors of SBS&L Fisher & Deering

the 2017 accounts for SBS&L show the following for the Group (SBS&L + Otium)



Although Venus was a director for 9 mths of that year

There is one director of Otium - Fisher

the 2017 accounts show the following



Could be reasonable to conclude Fisher gets paid by a intermediate company set up at least £75,781 by Otium.

Does that mean he gets £100k paid by SBS&L less what was paid to Venus or it a charge paid to SISU Capital for the Director services of Deering who is a SISU Capital employee?

 

[skybluetony176]

There are two directors of SBS&L Fisher & Deering

the 2017 accounts for SBS&L show the following for the Group (SBS&L + Otium)

View attachment 11096

Although Venus was a director for 9 mths of that year

There is one director of Otium - Fisher

the 2017 accounts show the following

View attachment 11097

Could be reasonable to conclude Fisher gets paid by a intermediate company set up at least £75,781 by Otium.

Does that mean he gets £100k paid by SBS&L less what was paid to Venus or it a charge paid to SISU Capital for the Director services of Deering who is a SISU Capital employee?

Can’t be. Tim said otherwise and we all know that he isn’t prone to exaggerating the truth

 

[Magwitch]

As I said TFs roll is as clear as mud.

 

[Captain Dart]

I have heard that rumour before. I don’t think there’s any merit to it. Certainly nothing at companies house to back it up so unless he’s done it through SISU and is one of their hidden investors I can’t see it myself.

There are fees paid for services, presumably to a company TF is Director of, that's how it would work, he just pays himself a dividend from the profits of that company*.

*Probably.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

You do realise that TF is merely a figurehead now and effectively just a bridge between SISU and the club. To put it into context Dave Bobby has zero communication with Joy and, I've heard from reputable sources, has actually never even met her personally. Tim's the only one really she deals with. TF won't stand in the way or pipe up because it's not his job to do so. He's paid a handsome salary to be a yes man and work x amount of days a month by attending perhaps one game a month and pop in now and again at Ryton.

Why would he do anything other than agree with his club's statement? He's there to say everything will be fine and the owners are fully behind the club that's it.

I went to an open meeting that the Trust had arranged with Dave Body at the Ricoh about a year ago. Body spoke about communication with Seppala and it certainly seemed that they had had face to face meetings. As with Anderson before him, he also confirmed the obvious, saying that the legal action comes from Sisu and is nothing to do with the club.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

As an aside from all this, I was listening to the radio yesterday where Tim Grayling, the transport minister, was taking a beating from his interviewer over his role in the railways timetabling fiasco. One piece of evidence she brought forward was a report produced by railways expert (Michael?) Bing who was very critical of the government’s handling of the railways. Need less to Grayling rejected the reports findings and questioned Bings credentials as an expert. Surely this must be the Mr Bing of the Chinese railway and football investors and missing emails fame?

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

I went to an open meeting that the Trust had arranged with Dave Body at the Ricoh about a year ago. Body spoke about communication with Seppala and it certainly seemed that they had had face to face meetings. As with Anderson before him, he also confirmed the obvious, saying that the legal action comes from Sisu and is nothing to do with the club.

I can neither confirm or deny as I wasn't at that meeting nor was I the creator of the rumour. But if it is true that DB has no or little communication with JS then it wouldn't surprise me as does she really care about the day to day goings on at CCFC? Unless there's a crisis then no - and even then the update would probably come from TF rather than DB as after all, technically in hierarchical terms DB works under TF. The rumour probably should be taken with a pinch of salt but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is little or no communication. Perhaps a start/end of season brief/debrief but other than that I can safely bet there's radio silence as she's got more important things to concern herself with. E.g. Legal action.

 

[Gibbo]

Wrongly.

There is no right or wrong about it, it's just business

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

This is where this whole thing is so muddy, if as I’m sure it is what you have said re TF is true beggars the question what is his role at ccfc, we are told he has nothing to do with sisu and it’s legals with Council/ Wasps but according to what you say above he has the power to turn down possible buyers or investment, isn’t getting investment in what sisu are about ? When programs like Talksport interview a representative of ccfc it’s always him or seems to be. There has been a list of questions in the Telegrapg recently recently to the relevant parties involved I suggest to them they pin TF down and get from the horses mouth exactly as chairman what his role and duties are.[/QUOTE]

It's definitely true, my contact has no reason to lie at all and he was simply offering out of curtesy to the club. He has no direct connection to CCFC he's just a someone who lives locally and used to have a seat in hospitality. This is what confused me when he reiterated the story to myself, as I was always under the impression that SISU were always activity open to listen to investors/potential new owners however how wrong I was! Especially as finding co-investors was his priority when he initially came into the club.

We as fans wouldn't get any new information that we didn't know before though. I guarantee TF has textbook responses to most questions directed to him as the same questions are always put to him during every interview he's undergone. So scripted answers such as SISU are in it for the long term and that the Ricoh is the priority, I want to see this through to the end blah blah blah, will always be reiterated.

Hence why I said that we'll probably never know what TF's role or intentions actually are because the truth is never spoken.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Fine they met once because they were in the same room and were sat near to each other. In a professional capacity Dave Boddy has never dealt with Joy nor speaks to her. Only repeating what I've heard.

Well you would have thought she would have learnt her lesson from the last time.

 

[Magwitch]

As I see it Boddy is nothing more than overseeing the running of the football club years ago they were called the club secretary now it’s c.e.o. I would think he has his work cut out doing that alone.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Last was one of the ring leaders in the whistle protest as everyone knows.

No I wasn't I just paid for them.

 

[Covstu]

As far as I can remember their appeals have always been on the deadline day. The fact that they got the club to point out that their deadline had not passed as had been reported would indicate that they knew full well what they were going to do. Do you really see Seppala and co huddled with their lawyers on deadline eve saying will we or won’t we? I think this is their ongoing strategy; to frustrate, annoy and irritate as much as possible as well as prolonging the whole process by waiting until the last possible day.

Don’t disagree there is a clear strategy but this isn’t directly against the fans. They don’t sit there and work out ways of annoying and aggravating us fans because they don’t give a shit about us fans. Their strategy is against wasps, council etc

 

[letsallsingtogether]

It's nice to see some original wit on this board

Not if we have the same builders as Spurs.

 

[skybluetony176]

Don’t disagree there is a clear strategy but this isn’t directly against the fans. They don’t sit there and work out ways of annoying and aggravating us fans because they don’t give a shit about us fans. Their strategy is against wasps, council etc

It’s a bonus though.

 

[RegTheDonk]

....This is what confused me when he reiterated the story to myself, as I was always under the impression that SISU were always activity open to listen to investors/potential new owners however how wrong I was! Especially as finding co-investors was his priority when he initially came into the club.

Does seem strange doesn't it, turning down people who want to invest.

Perhaps this would have a negative bearing for any future civil action for damages. SISU can hardly tell a judge that the council and wasps effectively made the club toxic property and lost them millions if there were people prepared to invest.

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

Bedworth branch of Sports Direct?

We haven’t got room,to many kin charity shops.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

I have heard that rumour before. I don’t think there’s any merit to it. Certainly nothing at companies house to back it up so unless he’s done it through SISU and is one of their hidden investors I can’t see it myself.

Think about it. He’s highly thought of in the financial world as his other business activities prove. If you were in his position would you either go and live a relatively easy life being a consultant in Frankfurt or Wall Street for a decent salary that he probably doesn’t even need or listen to several thousand people in unison call you a wanker every week or two whilst apparently earning no salary after being undermined by those apparently above him? I can believe the no pay bit but for no long term reward? Is he mental?

 

[skybluetony176]

Think about it. He’s highly thought of in the financial world as his other business activities prove. If you were in his position would you either go and live a relatively easy life being a consultant in Frankfurt or Wall Street for a decent salary that he probably doesn’t even need or listen to several thousand people in unison call you a wanker every week or two whilst apparently earning no salary after being undermined by those apparently above him? I can believe the no pay bit but for no long term reward? Is he mental?

Naa not mental. Just a prick.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Don’t disagree there is a clear strategy but this isn’t directly against the fans. They don’t sit there and work out ways of annoying and aggravating us fans because they don’t give a shit about us fans. Their strategy is against wasps, council etc

Either way we’re the ones who are being affected

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Well you would have thought she would have learnt her lesson from the last time.

Considering we're on our 45th appeal I have a feeling Joy isn't one for learning from her mistakes

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Does seem strange doesn't it, turning down people who want to invest.

Perhaps this would have a negative bearing for any future civil action for damages. SISU can hardly tell a judge that the council and wasps effectively made the club toxic property and lost them millions if there were people prepared to invest.

Exactly. But knowing Joy, she could just say that any interested parties weren't the right owners neither for SISU or for the club though. As that's a subjective comment, it wouldn't be classified as perjury if she stated that in a court of law whether it was true or not. To be honest Joy is so far gone by this whole ordeal she probably genuinely believes that. Plus, I doubt any previous interested parties would want to be dragged into a legal battle to confirm/deny such a thing anyway so Joy can effectively say what she likes really.

 

[duffer]

Considering we're on our 45th appeal I have a feeling Joy isn't one for learning from her mistakes

It's not a mistake mate, imho, it's entirely deliberate. SISU genuinely believe that there's a chance of winning this, and in truth I think there still is until the whole legal process has been exhausted. It's a very remote chance I suspect, but it's enough to keep them digging away at it.

A different judge and a different opinion on some fairly obscure, very technical section of legislation and it might just go the other way. My gut feeling though it that the end of the road is nigh for this particular strand, and if they're going to keep going at it then it won't be through the JR process.

 

[duffer]

There are two directors of SBS&L Fisher & Deering

the 2017 accounts for SBS&L show the following for the Group (SBS&L + Otium)

View attachment 11096

Although Venus was a director for 9 mths of that year

There is one director of Otium - Fisher

the 2017 accounts show the following

View attachment 11097

Could be reasonable to conclude Fisher gets paid by a intermediate company set up at least £75,781 by Otium.

Does that mean he gets £100k paid by SBS&L less what was paid to Venus or it a charge paid to SISU Capital for the Director services of Deering who is a SISU Capital employee?

Not for the first time, I find myself wondering why accountants make accounts so bloody obscure.

It's to keep yourselves employed, isn't it OSB?

 

[lapsed_skyblue]

Maybe they are continuing the appeals because they are not yet ready to launch JR3?

 

[Magwitch]

If I have read things correctly the appeal hasn’t been allowed yet, the next hearing is for the Supreme Court to allow an appeal or not.i might be wrong but if not it could be turned down, if it is that’s the end of the case, if that scenario is right wtf happens then

 

[chiefdave]

Exactly. But knowing Joy, she could just say that any interested parties weren't the right owners neither for SISU or for the club though. As that's a subjective comment, it wouldn't be classified as perjury if she stated that in a court of law whether it was true or not. To be honest Joy is so far gone by this whole ordeal she probably genuinely believes that. Plus, I doubt any previous interested parties would want to be dragged into a legal battle to confirm/deny such a thing anyway so Joy can effectively say what she likes really.

Not to mention we don't actually know what Fisher said, its second hand information.

There's a big difference between Fisher saying no to someone asking him about potential investment as its not his decision and saying no SISU won't speak to any investors.

But as you say the chances of this playing any part in a future legal case are very slim.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

It's not a mistake mate, imho, it's entirely deliberate. SISU genuinely believe that there's a chance of winning this, and in truth I think there still is until the whole legal process has been exhausted. It's a very remote chance I suspect, but it's enough to keep them digging away at it.

A different judge and a different opinion on some fairly obscure, very technical section of legislation and it might just go the other way. My gut feeling though it that the end of the road is nigh for this particular strand, and if they're going to keep going at it then it won't be through the JR process.

I was referring to her tactics first time around being the mistake. E.g. Waging war on ACL and the Council so SISU could seize half the stadium. It didn't work first time around and led us moving to Northampton. There's no reason why JS's bullying tactics will work again.

Well that's exactly why they're continuing their pursuit of this lawsuit. However the majority of judges have already seemed to view SISU in a poor light, so unfortunately IMO everyone involved in the SISU camp surely has in the back of their mind that any judge put on the case is going to be reluctant to do a complete 360 and disagree with the decisions of those before him/her. I know judges are obviously supposed to remain objective before looking at all the evidence but they're human at the end of the day. There's only so many times they can keep this up before it looks to be a lost cause to any future judge that is handed this case.

I'm by no means a legal expert nor would I claim to be but with regards to realistic litigation, could CCFC folding actually work in SISU's favour as there could be a case for holding the council liable for damages to the club?

 

[Covstu]

I just cannot see how another crack at this is going to benefit anyone but surely there is a game plan to this action without a doubt which is either 1) they think they can win or 2) another attempt at trying to distress another party, this time Wasps.

Even though Wasps aren't looking financially sharp at the moment, they aren't going bust anytime soon and I think they would ensure that if they go down, we go down with them.