The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (79 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

You would not be breaking a UN treaty and it’s covered by an option in the Treaty - the uk could legitimately not enforce it and therefore it would be the Eu enforcing it

Again, it wouldn’t do the UK’s standing any good.

You’d also be allowing banned goods to enter the EU and showing open disrespect after the UK going on about being shown respect.

There’d also be numerous issues of illegal immigration into the UK.

It really would not do the UK’s standing any good at all.

 

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[Astute]

The French disputes are not to do with poverty

But they are. That is why Macron has given so much away.

The problem is he won't give back what he has taken away.

 

[Sick Boy]

The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it

Yeah because the people of Brexit like Rees Mogg, Farage, Patel et al are all about making the poorest’s lives so much better and sorting out inequality.

 

[Grendel]

Again, it wouldn’t do the UK’s standing any good.

You’d also be allowing banned goods to enter the EU and showing open disrespect after the UK going on about being shown respect.

There’d also be numerous issues of illegal immigration into the UK.

It really would not do the UK’s standing any good at all.

Nonsense. Also were you not championing the course of a Scottish referendum?

 

[Grendel]

Yeah because the people of Brexit like Rees Mogg, Farage, Patel et al are all about making the poorest’s lives so much better and sorting out inequality.

Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?

 

[Sick Boy]

Nonsense. Also were you not championing the course of a Scottish referendum?

If that’s what they wish to pursue then it’s their choice.

 

[Astute]

No it’s not about many things at all and yes the specifically demanded concessions

It is about many things. But it is mainly fuel tax rises that gets the headlines because it affects just about everyone. The workers rights removed involves millions less. Increased tax involved a lot so some has been given back. But he took off those who already couldn't afford to live. And with the fuel rises they couldn't afford to get to work. Millions of the jobs are in areas the rich have taken over. But the poorer people had to move away. So the rich don't need a car as they have the good transport links. The poorer have no choice but to drive in.

 

[Sick Boy]

Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?

I don’t know enough about them. And I’m particularly a fan of his, not sure what’s given you the impression I could be.

What makes the likes of RM, Johnson and Patel any different? Do you genuinely believe they wish to make the poor’s lives better through Brexit?

You go on about the EU being setup for the rich, it sounds like you’ll be voting for Corbyn next.

 

[Astute]

The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it

Yes that is why many are taking part. But there are many reasons for many people.

 

[Grendel]

If that’s what they wish to pursue then it’s their choice.

So you would be ok with a hard border across Scotland. If we stayed in the Eu and they left (which they would have had to under terms of the EU) that would be the outcome. If we left and agreed the customs union with the Eu to “save” Ireland but could not with a new independent Scotland I assume we’d have to have a hard Irish border anyway as Scottish goods would flow through the channel into Northern Ireland?

 

[Grendel]

I don’t know enough about them. And I’m particularly a fan of his, not sure what’s given you the impression I could be.

What makes the likes of RM, Johnson and Patel any different? Do you genuinely believe they wish to make the poor’s lives better through Brexit?

You go on about the EU being setup for the rich, it sounds like you’ll be voting for Corbyn next.

Our government was not proposing 25% hikes in fuel duty, removal of wealth taxes and other taxation measures targeting middle earners to pay for it

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

But we don’t have the problems of the UK or France in Germany. Knife crime for example is rare. Cutting reports on abject poverty are not in the news. The crime rate is low. The refugee crisis has died down. Far right demos are directed at foreigners not the price of fuel or cost of living in germany

That's absolutely fantastic for Germany. No world war 3 imminent by the sound of it. We're here to discuss the UK, not your favourite place on earth.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you would be ok with a hard border across Scotland. If we stayed in the Eu and they left (which they would have had to under terms of the EU) that would be the outcome. If we left and agreed the customs union with the Eu to “save” Ireland but could not with a new independent Scotland I assume we’d have to have a hard Irish border anyway as Scottish goods would flow through the channel into Northern Ireland?

It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.

 

[Grendel]

It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.

Which would then by default mean a hard border in Ireland

 

[Astute]

That's absolutely fantastic for Germany. No world war 3 imminent by the sound of it. We're here to discuss the UK, not your favourite place on earth.

All is well in Germany. Even the rise in antisemitism and the right wing is good.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

All is well in Germany. Even the rise in antisemitism and the right wing is good.

Yes. But surely it doesn't exist ?

 

[Astute]

It’s a completely hypothetical and unrelated scenario that’s diverting away from the issue.

However, if they elected to have a hard border with England then it would be inevitable and their decision to do so.

It’s a consequence of Brexit that wasn’t discussed pre-referendum and no plans made for it.

If the Tories hadn't gone for project fear and been truthful they could have told the electorate the reality of the situation. But only if they understood it themselves.

 

[Grendel]

I also don’t get this smuggling theory in Ireland - why would there be smuggling if we left the Eu

 

[martcov]

No it’s not about many things at all and yes the specifically demanded concessions

They demanded a withdrawal of the fuel tax. They got a postponement. They got a minimum wage rise and an encouragement for firms to give bonuses, and tax free overtime payments. Mayors from all regions will asked to lay out their problems.

Why don’t our government offer these things without having to go through the shit that France is going through? Because they are giving us sovereignty, which we already have, control of our borders, which we have ( except FOM, where we still have the 3 months rule ), and control of our money, which we already have. How about the government taking care of the problems which Ashdown mentioned instead of try to bring us out of the EU?

 

[martcov]

But they are. That is why Macron has given so much away.

The problem is he won't give back what he has taken away.

Agree with point one. Still waiting to hear what rights he has taken away.

 

[martcov]

Macrons policies are supporting the rich - do you agree?

Sounds like Tory policies. Do you agree?

 

[martcov]

The French dispute is because Macron is symbolic of EU rule. Worship the rich abd ensure they get richer while squeezing the middle classes to pay for it

Exactly the Tories austerity policy. The only difference being that the French blame Macron and the right wing Tories and their press barons blame the EU.

 

[Astute]

Agree with point one. Still waiting to hear what rights he has taken away.

You have been searching because you know more than before.

So are you saying that no rights have been taken away?

 

[martcov]

So you are admitting that you are clueless?

It’s you who refuses to answer the question.

 

[Astute]

Exactly the Tories austerity policy. The only difference being that the French blame Macron and the right wing Tories and their press barons blame the EU.

Are you saying that no EU rules and regulations have anything to do with it?

 

[Grendel]

They demanded a withdrawal of the fuel tax. They got a postponement. They got a minimum wage rise and an encouragement for firms to give bonuses, and tax free overtime payments. Mayors from all regions will asked to lay out their problems.

Why don’t our government offer these things without having to go through the shit that France is going through? Because they are giving us sovereignty, which we already have, control of our borders, which we have ( except FOM, where we still have the 3 months rule ), and control of our money, which we already have. How about the government taking care of the problems which Ashdown mentioned instead of try to bring us out of the EU?

What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?

 

[skybluetony176]

On the point of 'what's good for the country', a good start would be for Parliament to fully honour the result of the referendum and for the Government to honour the Brexit pledges in its own manifesto.

That’s the contradiction and Liam Fox has also just said on the Andrew Marr show. If it was Parliament that were instructed to deliver Brexit why didn’t Parliament draw the red lines instead of Teresa May and the conservatives? Cross party consensus has always been there and hasn’t changed since the day after the referendum, through a general election and to this day. The Tories are now trying to pass responsibility to Parliament now they’ve fucked it up by not giving the responsibility to Parliament in the first place.

 

[Astute]

It’s you who refuses to answer the question.

Is it?

So how many times have I asked you and Tony the sane thing without reply?

 

[martcov]

You have been searching because you know more than before.

So are you saying that no rights have been taken away?

I am saying you refuse to tell us what rights are being taken away. I don’t know and have asked you. If you cannot answer I have to conclude that you don’t know either. Some debate this is.

 

[martcov]

It is about many things. But it is mainly fuel tax rises that gets the headlines because it affects just about everyone. The workers rights removed involves millions less. Increased tax involved a lot so some has been given back. But he took off those who already couldn't afford to live. And with the fuel rises they couldn't afford to get to work. Millions of the jobs are in areas the rich have taken over. But the poorer people had to move away. So the rich don't need a car as they have the good transport links. The poorer have no choice but to drive in.

What rights have been removed?

 

[Astute]

What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?

Macron only got in because it was either him or extreme right wing. If there was another vote now the extreme right would do much better. It isn't because the French want the extreme right in. They just detest Macron and what he has done.

 

[skybluetony176]

There won’t be any violence and misery - why would there be

It’s never really gone away for starters.

 

[Astute]

What rights have been removed?

Last time I am asking or I will just ignore your rants.

Are you saying that no rights have been taken away?

 

[martcov]

What on Earth are you on about? Macron is reviled across the whole of France. He is seen as a corrupt greedy c**t who has deliberately tried to introduce measures to make the rich in the society richer and squeeze the middle classes

The uk haven’t proposed an increase in fuel duty for years (let alone a 25% one) - the bonus scheme is laughed at as another marcon con.

Macron is dead in the water. He is a greedy arrogant pig despised in the whole of France other than by the greedy filthy rich he toadies up to.

What’s your view on macron?

The UN just published a report about how Britain has become an economically divided country where the filthy rich toadies are getting richer at the expense of constantly growing numbers depending on food banks and living on the streets. You may have missed this as you are too busy showing concern for the French.

 

[Astute]

I am saying you refuse to tell us what rights are being taken away. I don’t know and have asked you. If you cannot answer I have to conclude that you don’t know either. Some debate this is.

You don't debate. You just ruin this thread with your rants.