Astute
Well-Known Member
You are the EMU. You bury your head in the sand and jeep up with your rants expecting people to believe you.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course you won't admit to the readers comments. They show you know nothing or won't admit to what the British public actually think and say.
So what do we owe and what for.....
Grendel
Well-Known Member
To be fair only Tony ever does
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
A bit like you and astute. Seeing as you didn’t correct him can we assume that you agree with him and also believe that horses love horse racing because they keep running when the jockey falls off?
Astute
Well-Known Member
And you ignored the quotes I put up for you.
And you wonder why I have you on ignore. I was only looking for what Mart has said. And I just see you coming out with more crap.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Was that the quote from a pro racing journalist who’s basis of horse racing can’t be cruel is because there isn’t protests at every race meeting at every racecourse? I can see why you liked that quote as it demonstrated the same childlike logic you have on the subject.
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Rant? That’s your department. Saying things also..
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Or you that had a go at the UK for badger baiting, fox hunting and horse racing. And had a go at horse racing because some horses end up being eaten. But you never mentioned horse racing in any EU country and never mentioned where the horse meat is eaten. And then tried to make excuses for bull 'fighting'
So yet another go at the UK and defending the EU. Just a shame you had to mention them eventually. And you think your version of what I said could take the heat off your biased attack.
Yeah well done again. This is why you are blocked.
Astute
Well-Known Member
They said before that they wouldn't fight to keep Poland like they are fighting to keep us. Can't work out why though.......:wideyed:
There are loads of leavers moaning and cursing on the internet. If you read comments elsewhere there are remainers. But you think reading leavers comments is the be all and end all and you ignore the rest.
We owe what we have agreed that we owe. Not what someone on an Internet forum claims we owe.
„Yet more Brits than Italians currently oppose the EU, with only 24 percent in Italy saying they would vote to leave the bloc compared to 35 percent in the UK.“
Is that what you wanted to point out?
Didn’t he say there was horse racing all over the world?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No I am just interested where this actually came from and they consistently Italy along with 2 or 3 other countries actually find the Eu even more negative than those of the uk
Where did it come from? Can’t remember
Astute
Well-Known Member
Only after being pushed to admit that more than the UK has it. And also had to admit that no horses had died in the national since 2012 after saying that they died in it every year. And moved all meat eating is bad after asking him where the horse meat is eaten. And made many excuses for bull 'fighting in Spain and tried to say horse racing is as bad.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Stop with the evidence based statistics
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
No you moron. I said horse racing is cruel. If you don’t have the intelligence to understand that that means full stop not just in the U.K. I can’t help you.
Aside from the fact that I actually pointed out practices were worse in other parts of the world and provided links to the American organisation PETA as a source of why it’s cruel and specifically why they continue running when the jockey falls (surprise surprise it’s not because they love it) and never said by any stretch of the imagination that it’s only cruel in the U.K.
I never made any excuses for bull fighting either so stop twisting and bullshitting.
I’m blocked because you’re a childish moron who uses block as an equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la la la, I can’t hear you. Although clearly you are still listening because you keep replying to me. Which makes your bragging of blocking as if that somehow makes you some sort of infallible hero me even more childish.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Like he says, the Nazis and fascists.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What evidence? What are the assumptions?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Did I really have to admit that horse racing is international? I didn’t realise it was a secret. How was I pushed?
Wow. No horses died in one annual race during the race itself. How many have die in horse racing each year exactly in total? No horses dying in one particular race in six years isn’t a cause for celebration when dozens of horses are dying year in year (159 in 2017 to be exact and that’s only those recorded on the racecourse itself. The figures don’t include those killed in training or those that were bread purely to become a race horse but didn’t make it so are sent for slaughter even though they’re still young, fit and healthy) out through horse racing.
Eating a horse is no different to eating a cow. If you won’t eat horse meat but will eat cow meat that just makes you a fussy eater not some bastion of animal rights.
What excuses did I make for bull fighting exactly? Show me. Where did I say horse racing is as bad? Show me. I bet you can’t Chubby Checker.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
As you know you went off in one saying how cruel to animals we are in the UK. You just never considered those you favour in the EU.
The EU "divorce bill"
The conclusion is that opinion is divided and the legal arguments are not tested. But you say we owe nothing. Who are we to believe?
Astute
Well-Known Member
The conclusion of what? The link you put up states this
'The divorce bill is not binding until parliament approves the withdrawal agreement'.
In the link I provided it said the majority, but not all of the legal people say that it can't be held up by law. So a few say it can.
We have agreed to pay our liabilities up to when the latest EU budget ends. That is in 2020. The plan is to leave in 2019. Remind me how much we put into the EU each year. Then IF it ended up in a court of law and IF it was decided that we still had to pay our liabilities they would still have to show what our liabilities are. As I also stated we have also agreed to help fund the ECB. Can you explain to me how that comes up to 39b?
So yes it is certainly in the best interests of the EU to come to an agreement on trade and everything that comes with it. This is on top of the jobs it would safeguard in the EU. As you know Germany isn't as strong as people think. We can debate this if you want to do it honestly. Italy is in trouble as we all know. A lot of Italians rely on us. A no deal would make the situation worse in Italy. A lot of the North of France relies on trade between the EU and UK. This is on top of the jobs elsewhere in France that relies on us. And as we all know things are not good in France at the moment. Macron has had to give in and give to the poor. He gave to the rich and hit the poor previously. They are now in danger of not hitting financial targets set by the EU. Not normally a problem but this has changed because what is going on between the EU and Italy.
And before you say your normal comments this isn't biased comments. This is how it is. Yes the EU has held the upper hand. But just about nobody wants the deal offered to May by the EU. You also can't deny this.
And I still say the same as I have been saying for a couple of years. The EU wants to do what they can to keep us in the EU. They need our money to keep their project going. This is including what we have to give them each year as well as the jobs our trade provides. So I see them as either relenting close to the date we leave or we leave without a deal.
You have seen the comments that Tusk has made. He was in charge of Poland when their people lost their life savings in a ponzi scheme that he did nothing about. His son was involved in it. And he says they won't fight to keep Poland in the EU lime they are fighting to keep us in. This is without mentioning yet another one at the top of the EU with skeletons in the closet.
So put all this together and if you are honest you will understand why I say I don't have a clue which way all this will go.
So a quick roundup.
The EU is trying to make us stay in the EU. It may still work. Yes you have the areas like City of London and Brighton that voted 70% to 75% to remain in the EU. But the vast majority of areas in England voted to leave including Coventry which was 55.6% against 44.4% leave. Yes you do have Scotland where every area voted remain. But the Tories and Labour don't have seats at risk like they do in England to go against the people.
Then you have this people's vote thing. It is as if they are saying that the people didn't vote last time. The call is mainly led by rich self important people.
Yes many of us are better off with us staying in the EU. But you need to consider that many of us are not better off staying in the EU.
The actual course of the conversation was that bull fighting was bad as an example of animal cruelty in the evil EU. Tony said yes, but there is also Animal cruelty here and in the rest of the World. That obviously upset you. You say you always look at both sides, and now you are accusing Tony of attacking Britain by pointing out that cruelty to animals exists not only in the EU. You should have mentioned that from the word go as you are, according to yourself, not biased. You always look at both sides.... apparently.
Astute
Well-Known Member
No. He stated that horse racing was as bad as bull 'fighting'. Look back and you will see.
It was the normal anti UK rant we get on here. Just like how we will lose workers rights when we leave the EU. Strangely enough lately we have seen workers rights lost in the EU. And the EU has tentatively agreed to more workers losing rights. But is has just been announced that workers rights are being strengthened in the UK. But of course there will be a story weaved into this by certain people on here.
If you read the article, you would see how it is calculated. It is a net figures and includes the EIB. We signed up for EIB guarantees which we may have to honour.
Whether or not the arguments are correct that article 50 superscedes the Vienna convention, there is enough doubt about that to involve years of litigation. We have agreed the figure, that we owe it and that we will cover our liabilities. To say that we won’t pay because didn’t get the deal we wanted will be challenged in international courts.
2020 is the year the budget ends which we agreed to. We won’t get out of that without a challenge.
The fact that the EU is under attack from 2 powerful adversaries should hint at what is to come for us when we are out on our own. They will have succeeded in weakening Europe and in particular, weakening us. We will be a distressed trading partner desperate for trade deals.
Do you count that as a good bargaining position?
Tusk‘s son worked for a short time for an airline owned by a ponzi scheme. I don’t know how that affects Britain’s future.
I think you overestimate the bargaining power of the 39 billion. We will end paying all or a large portion of that whatever happens. Even in no deal we will still be hoping for some sort of future deal or trade with the EU. We will be in a stand off situation. You want a deal, you pay the 39 billion.
You say some will be worse off in the EU. That may well be true. That is true in many deals, but at the end of the day the interests of the country as a whole should win through. A possible example: Fishing is a small percentage of GDP, financial services is massive. There will probably be a trade off to protect financial services.
I don’t know either how things will work out, but we are in a precarious situation and I think the people should have the final say as to whether we are prepared to go ahead or not. It should be called final say and made to be a binding referendum. No way out of the result.
Here we go. Workers‘ rights have been eroded, reduced but the basic rights are there. Even in France paid holiday will not be reduced below 4 weeks as that is guaranteed by the EU. Macron‘s stated aim is to bring French labour laws more in line with the UK/ USA laws. Downwards.
The EU will not remove workers‘ rights.
In what way will UK workers‘ rights be strengthened and when?
Workers' rights could be reviewed after Brexit, officials say
There was something about strengthening workers rights in the gig economy. How is that coming on? Did it happen?
Astute
Well-Known Member
As your post says....If....May....might.
That is the best you can come out with. Yet nothing is different to my original post that you try to deny. Like I said there is nothing to say that we 'have' to pay 39b if there is no deal. We have only agreed to pay if there is a deal.
You said we don’t have to pay. That is an assumption. It is not a fact as stated in the links and I hold that opinion. If you can prove conclusively that we don’t have to pay, then go ahead.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I thought you was against old news.
But here is the most recent news. And strangely enough the same outlet as your link. So how about doing your normal and calling it a biased source?
Employees to get new protections as government announces ‘largest upgrade in workers’ rights for over 20 years’
Astute
Well-Known Member
No we don't have to pay. There is nothing to say we have to pay. The best you could find against what I said was ifs buts and maybe's. I also said if we had to pay that it would take years to be decided. And also asked you how they could justify 39b when we are due to leave in 2019 and the budget agreed is until 2020.