The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (120 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

But she wouldn't have handed as much power to them. And she wouldn't have let them take the piss. Also she wouldn't have let the wrongdoings by those in charge of the EU go with no retribution.

Can you elaborate on how the EU takes the piss? Britain already has opt outs and there was a previous agreement it wouldn’t not be liable for bailing out countries in the eurozone.

Do you feel that she clamped down on the wrongdoings of the rich and powerful in the UK when she was PM?

 

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[Sick Boy]

Nor did May...

I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at, I would say May has always been more of a reluctant remainer

 

[CCFCSteve]

Given that a vote in Parliament is less than a month away, it’s unlikely that anything fundamental will change. The EU has also stated its unwillingness to renegotiate.

Don’t doubt it but negotiations are continuing. Apparently one of the reasons the EU aren’t budging is they don’t believe parliament will vote through whatever deal is on the table (and there is still a chance of a second referendum).

 

[sw88]

“Stupid woman” for me, the Silly man. Or can I not say that? :emoji_laughing:

 

[chiefdave]

Lot of deaf people and lip readers saying its stupid people, that will do for me.

Its just as well we have our full attention on the important issues of our time and not silly distractions like Brexit. Does it really matter if he said stupid woman? She's a woman and some would no doubt say her actions with the brexit negotiations qualify as stupidity. Its hardly the most venomous of insults.

 

[martcov]

First post in here so treat me gently - ITS A FUCKIN APPALLING DEAL - you can see the smiles on Juncker and Barnier whose salary we are financing - whatever they are happy with stinks for UK - so we tell them to fuck off - Maggie would have pulled the drawbar up and said you come here to negotiate [/


The UK has set the red lines within which the deal has to fall. And there it is.... exactly what you voted for ( well what was possible without wrecking the country). Great.

Brexit is not the main theme in Europe and it is the UK‘s choice.

The EU has no proposals on how Brexit should look like. It is a UK thing and if the UK wants to trade with the EU they have to fit in with EU rules. The EU offered alternatives at the beginning, but they didn’t fit in with May‘s red lines.

If you are unhappy, I suggest you ask the people who pushed Brexit, why we are where we are and not sailing into the sunset as promised? I suspect they will blame May and the EU for not delivering the undeliverable.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Lot of deaf people and lip readers saying its stupid people, that will do for me.

Its just as well we have our full attention on the important issues of our time and not silly distractions like Brexit. Does it really matter if he said stupid woman? She's a woman and some would no doubt say her actions with the brexit negotiations qualify as stupidity. Its hardly the most venomous of insults.

Exactly, I don’t like Corbyn but who gives a shit ! There’s a lot worse things to call someone

 

[martcov]

Maggie did many things that were wrong. But she never once let Europe take the piss.

Yes, she pushed for the single market and got it through. But you won’t allow that as it includes FOM and you don’t like that at all.

 

[martcov]

Grounded in reality?

It was based on lies and misinformation. Just like leave was.


Or did I miss something where it was truthful and correct?

No, you used false equivalency.

 

[Astute]

Don’t deflect. You have issues with it, what are they?

Are you saying that you don't have issues with it?

I will ask you again. What is good about it?

 

[martcov]

I'm afraid these proposals on immigration post Brexit drawn up by a foreign born individual and his crowd are a joke. They are just making a complete mockery of it all. The establishment and ruling classes are predictably ignoring the will of the people. There will be no Brexit in reality, just a fudge of a deal to try and con the masses but there will be no changes. The UK population is burgeoning out of control as the lies continue. Fucking sick of it all now, no statesmen or women to do what's right for the British people, just career politicians and PC arseholes doing the bidding for the super rich...........still they will be able to suppress wages now forever more for the low skilled and millions will struggle to buy their own house for the foreseeable.
The EU meddling in Italy's budget just says it all............... its a monster now !

Where do you get this crap. The world is not perfect, but you are portraying a hell hole again. I have no idea where your village is, but you seem to lead a horrible life. Do you think Javid is a fifth columnist? Are you seriously blaming migrants for everything in the hell hole?

 

[Astute]

Lot of deaf people and lip readers saying its stupid people, that will do for me.

Its just as well we have our full attention on the important issues of our time and not silly distractions like Brexit. Does it really matter if he said stupid woman? She's a woman and some would no doubt say her actions with the brexit negotiations qualify as stupidity. Its hardly the most venomous of insults.

Lip readers are saying it looks like stupid woman. I don't see anything wrong with stupid woman. As it is the truth.

 

[Astute]

Can you elaborate on how the EU takes the piss? Britain already has opt outs and there was a previous agreement it wouldn’t not be liable for bailing out countries in the eurozone.

Do you feel that she clamped down on the wrongdoings of the rich and powerful in the UK when she was PM?

Oh sorry. I must praise the EU more as they only do good.

 

[Astute]

No, you used false equivalency.

No. I use the truth. You hate the truth when it involves the EU.

 

[Astute]

Yes, she pushed for the single market and got it through. But you won’t allow that as it includes FOM and you don’t like that at all.

She pushed for the single market. Correct.

It then became the EU that you love so much. This was after the days of Maggie. She never asked for the EU to be formed. She wouldn't have given up so much to the EU.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Don’t doubt it but negotiations are continuing. Apparently one of the reasons the EU aren’t budging is they don’t believe parliament will vote through whatever deal is on the table (and there is still a chance of a second referendum).

For sure, there will still be nominal negotiations, but for the reasons you state, nothing substantive will be agreed. We really are in the weaker position at the negotiating table, hence the deal put forward looks something akin to us remaining in all but name. The prospect of a ‘no deal’ Brexit is pretty bad, and the electorate certainly didn’t vote for that.

 

[Sick Boy]

Oh sorry. I must praise the EU more as they only do good.

Why can’t you answer the questions? They were perfectly valid and reasonable.

 

[Sick Boy]

She pushed for the single market. Correct.

It then became the EU that you love so much. This was after the days of Maggie. She never asked for the EU to be formed. She wouldn't have given up so much to the EU.

What are you basing this on?

Was she ever critical of the EU after stepping down?

Based on your previous answer, I doubt you’ll bother to answer these either

 

[Astute]

Why can’t you answer the questions? They were perfectly valid and reasonable.

What questions?

Like what don't I like about the deal? As if I haven't stated it enough so far.

So what do you like about the deal?

 

[Astute]

What are you basing this on?

Was she ever critical of the EU after stepping down?

Based on your previous answer, I doubt you’ll bother to answer these either

How could she be critical of the EU after stepping down? She quit political life after stepping down. Nobody was interested in her when the EU was formed. It was a few years after she stepped down that it was formed. And our power wasn't taken away straight away. They kept changing the rules and regulations that took our power away. And they are still doing it to this day.

 

[Sick Boy]

What questions?

Like what don't I like about the deal? As if I haven't stated it enough so far.

So what do you like about the deal?

WTF - that has nothing to do with what I asked

 

[Sick Boy]

How could she be critical of the EU after stepping down? She quit political life after stepping down. Nobody was interested in her when the EU was formed. It was a few years after she stepped down that it was formed. And our power wasn't taken away straight away. They kept changing the rules and regulations that took our power away. And they are still doing it to this day.

It’s not uncommon for previous PMs to weigh in on political debates.

What power has been taken away since Thatcher was PM?

I don’t see how this is even a point, as others have said, she was a massive europhile.

 

[Sick Boy]

Good to see that May is likely to cave in after pressure and move to a £21,000 migration earning threshold.

I don’t really understand how this is going to massively reduce immigration to the levels that they claim they wish to see it go down to, and how opening up vacancies to countries where wages are even lower than Eastern Europe is going to benefit the poorest within our society.

How is Brexit going to improve the lives of the ordinary working people, especially those in the most deprived areas of the country? How is the focus on London going to be shifted? When will a plan be put in place to share and generate wealth around other parts of the country? How are those who feel ignored and without a voice going to be heard after Brexit.

The biggest tragedy for me is that in the long term when they see that their lot hasn’t improved, they will probably be even more disillusioned.

 

[Astute]

It’s not uncommon for previous PMs to weigh in on political debates.

What power has been taken away since Thatcher was PM?

I don’t see how this is even a point, as others have said, she was a massive europhile.

So you think Maggie would have given her power to what the EU became?

 

[Astute]

WTF - that has nothing to do with what I asked

So what have you asked?

 

[Sick Boy]

So you think Maggie would have given her power to what the EU became?

Yeah I do, I think to think otherwise is as misguided as those who use the image of Churchill in Leave ads and imagery.

I think that she would be massively against Brexit if she were still alive.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Are you saying that you don't have issues with it?

I will ask you again. What is good about it?

If you’ve read my previous posts, you’ll know I’m dead set against it. I’ve made that explicitly clear. So, what I’m asking is, what don’t you like about May’s deal and how do you think it can be improved? Since our reasons for mutually disliking it must be different.

Answering my questions with more questions isn’t helpful to anyone.

 

[Sick Boy]

So what have you asked?

You’ve already quoted the post before.

 

[Astute]

Yeah I do, I think to think otherwise is as misguided as those who use the image of Churchill in Leave ads and imagery.

I think that she would be massively against Brexit if she were still alive.

She might have been against Brexit. But she wouldn't have handed our power over to the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

She might have been against Brexit. But she wouldn't have handed our power over to the EU.

I’ve asked a couple of times exactly what power has been handed over and lost?

She pushed for the SM, and I don’t recall her speaking out about it and the rules attached to it.

 

[Astute]

If you’ve read my previous posts, you’ll know I’m dead set against it. I’ve made that explicitly clear. So, what I’m asking is, what don’t you like about May’s deal and how do you think it can be improved? Since our reasons for mutually disliking it must be different.

Answering my questions with more questions isn’t helpful to anyone.

I don't like anything about it. So it is a long list that I don't like. Just look back. Have said lots on the subject. Have said it countless times. Have had enough of saying the same thing over and over again. Like losing the small say we have but still paying for the privilege of being in the EU when we wouldn't be in. And not being allowed to leave until the EU says we can leave. That is what the backstop looks all about.

 

[Astute]

I’ve asked a couple of times exactly what power has been handed over and lost?

She pushed for the SM, and I don’t recall her speaking out about it and the rules attached to it.

Having rules and regulations that took priority over our own rules and laws for starters.

She certainly didn't push for us to be ruled by what the EU has become. Nobody has pushed for it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Do you believe Mr Corbyn could have done better?

No, he wouldn’t have done, because it’s an impossible position.

Brexit is such a vague concept. One minute, Leavers are proponents of the Norway model (Farage), the next, the ERG suggests May’s deal makes us a ‘vassal state’ and rebels against the PM. May’s deal, for all intents and purpose does ‘take back control’, especially when it comes to immigration. Yet, May’s most vocal supporters are Brexiteers, when the deal gives them broadly what they campaigned for in 2016.

The price for access to the single market was always going to be adherence to EU rules and regulations. So, Parliament was always going to cede some sovereignty regardless. In fact, any FTA technically infringes upon Parliament’s sovereignty — it is Parliament’s prerogative to consent to ceding sovereignty.

 

[Astute]

The price for access to the single market was always going to be adherence to EU rules and regulations. So, Parliament was always going to cede some sovereignty regardless.

Was it?

When we joined the common market there was no EU. There were no laws made for us. Slowly our power has been taken away. And all so we can trade freely with what is now another 27 countries. And not only do they get power in the UK we also give them billions of pounds each year.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don't like anything about it. So it is a long list that I don't like. Just look back. Have said lots on the subject. Have said it countless times. Have had enough of saying the same thing over and over again. Like losing the small say we have but still paying for the privilege of being in the EU when we wouldn't be in. And not being allowed to leave until the EU says we can leave. That is what the backstop looks all about.

How specifically could this deal be improved? Seems like the only issue you have is with the backstop.

The price for access to the single market would mean following EU rules and regulations as well as paying into the EU. Nigel’s Farage was a fan of the Swiss and Norway models, yet, these countries still pay into the EU and adhere to their regulations. So, if you want free trade with Europe, Britain will have to cede some sovereignty to the EU. That’s the reality of the situation.