No, it’s just that I prefer you to stick to facts instead of making things up.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (349 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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No, it’s just that I prefer you to stick to facts instead of making things up.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You don't give a fuck about people in the UK you traitorous wanker, you start to chat shit as always when an alternative view is aired.You don't actually give a fuck about CCFC either, you're a fraud who must look all over the web for a platform for your boring repetitive pro EU bollocks. Stop pretending Lord Haw Haw !!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You’re stuck in the past past now.
The EU has said as much during the process of Brexit negotiations. It’s delusional to think Britain won’t have to adhere to any EU rules and regulations, not have to pay in to the EU at all yet still have access to the single market. Frankly, you’re in fantasy land if you actually think this is realistic.
A nice Financial Times article to sum it up:
Subscribe to read | Financial Times
Since when has the EU ruled us? We have a sovereign parliament that does that. Of course regulations are agreed in any deal that will be made. Do you think that we can take part in any deal without trading some sovereignty? To create a market of 28 countries you have to pool sovereignty. Thatcher was intelligent whatever you think of her policies and she knew what the SM entailed. You seem to have difficulty understanding that.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s nice. Meanwhile, back in 2018, we’re dealing with Brexit and I’m asking you about Theresa May’s deal.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Stuck in the past?
No. You are coming out with pro EU crap. Why should we have to give up sovereignty so we can sell goods? Especially when we buy much more than we sell.
And now twisting of words. Who said access to the single market but not give anything in return?
You just cannot take criticism. You are constantly portraying Britain, or maybe it’s your village, as a terrible place. Now you really are off the rails. What you call an alternative view is just insults and your frustrations. I have no idea why you are such an angry person. Something wrong somewhere.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course. You make out nobody could do better than May. I don't agree.
Maybe because we have a surplus from the service sector which we would like to keep.
We had a bigger say than most.
Agree that it’s the final stages and the only likely movement is something relating to the backstop. The ‘brexit in name only’ keeps getting repeated (mainly by those that are pushing for no deal) but I don’t see it that way. The withdrawal agreement appears to give us back control over freedom of movement (whether we decided to use that control remains to be seen !!!!), things like the fisheries and agriculture policies and Id imagine will at least significantly reduce payments to the EU. It also appears that Uk courts will have supremacy again over a large proportion of law.
If you asked the average ‘leaver’ on the street I’d imagine that the above tick enough of the main areas for them to be satisfied. Unfortunately most will just listen to the MPs noise on both sides of the argument.
Obviously who knows what will happen with any final trade agreement (if we ever get past the transition period !)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
In the end perhaps he gets a tad frustrated that you pretend to have some interest In the uk and it’s future yet all you are really interested in is the contribution to the project engineered by your adopted Fatherland.
Just perhaps
How’s the quiz going big ccfc fan?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Thatcher wouldn’t have negotiated a better deal because she wouldn’t have campaigned to Leave. She campaigned to join the EC in 1975. Stop trying to change the history books.
Margaret Thatcher would not have supported Brexit, says top aide
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
Out of pure coincidence, Evelyn Glennie, one of the worlds greatest percussionists, who happens to be stone deaf, was just about to go on the Jez Vine show when this broke today, so they asked her to lip read it, she said 100% "stupid woman" I'm no Jezza fan, but so fucking what if that's what he said, I'd have been happier if he had just called her a stupid c**t.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I bet your face went bright red and you were breathing though gritted teeth while typing that. A bit like Angry Frank the Harry Enfield character.
The fisheries thing is a red herring
and was traded off before. Not only that, but the biggest market for our fish is the EU. Our fisheries concessions are owned to a large part by 3 big companies and not by an army of quaint little fishermen. Our food processing industry is worried about business going to Bremerhaven if there is a row. I suspect there will be a climb down there as soon as the dust settles.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Ah. So she never took any shit from them before so now you find out a reason why she wouldn't have done better than May.
No she wouldn't be taking us out. And she wouldn't have given sovereignty away.
And as you must have answers to questions how about answering them yourself?
Why should we give up on sovereignty just so we can trade?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
L
If there was a bite to leave and she was PM to be fair she would have took us out primarily as she’d have been the dominant party in the house.
If there was a bite to leave and she was PM to be fair she would have took us out primarily as she’d have been the dominant party in the house.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes. But she wouldn't have given her power over to a bunch of nobodies in the EU.
Oh yes another fucking foreigner with an anti British agenda. Congrats you twat !
You ask questions about people who only played a few games a long time ago. You can work out how many of those I have actually seen play. Until the internet really got going it was hard to get much information on CCFC here. We used to go down to the main station on a Sunday for a paper ( if you were in a big city ). Then you get the results and read a match report, but the chances of seeing a player who only played a couple of times on my occasional visits to Cov were not very high. When Sky came along and you had a subscription then you had more of a chance to watch city on TV, if you weren’t working. I like your idea though.
You portray my home country as a hell hole and make a snide remark on the ethnicity of the Home Secretary and then call me and Tony traitors. You follow a hard Brexit anti foreigner agenda which is encouraged by people with dubious money sources from foreign think tanks and possibly an adversary government via Banks. If there is a largely unwitting fifth column, then is composed of angry men frightened of immigrants screaming at people who have an alternative viewpoint. You need to get a grip on yourself.
You’re even calling a Northern Irish person a foreigner. Totally off your head. Go back to your horrible village. It’s missing an idiot.
If you agree to the terms of trade, you are letting someone trade with yourself by allowing him some access to your country in return for some access to his country. That is a loss of some control of your country. If you are a member NATO or the UN, or if you have signed the Genera Convention you have also given up some sovereignty. You are trading some of your sovereignty for the benefits of being in a multilateral organisation. It is normal.
She would have to get into the SM, which she was in favour of. The so called nobodies are 3:0 up in the negotiations and we look like getting relegated.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Our exports to the EU is worth £274bn, or 44% of all our exports (as of 2017). We need access to the single market — losing nearly half of your trade would be catastrophic. We also import more than we export, with a trade deficit of -£67bn. Tariffs based trade is therefore, a bad thing for the UK because the EU will get more from tariffs than the we would from the EU.
Free trade agreements involve two, or a group of countries coming together and setting rules between each other. That’s standard for any FTA.
This is quite good, hopefully it enhances your understanding between FTAs and sovereignty.
Free Trade Agreements and Sovereignty - The Permaculture Research Institute
Astute
Well-Known Member
So explain why we should lose sovereignty so we can trade. We buy about twice the amount we sell. And it costs us many billions a year to do so.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
NATO requires member states to spend 2% GDP. Let’s #TakeBackControl and Leave NATO. We stand a better chance defending against Russian aggression outside of NATO...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How much does Germany spend?
Astute
Well-Known Member
So why should we lose sovereignty just so we can trade with the EU?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
The article explains it pretty well. But let’s say Mucca Mad Boys and Astute are sovereign states. We decide that free trade is in our mutual interest. We set rules for that trade. From eliminating tariffs and trade barriers means we, as sovereign states can’t do certain things that break this FTA.
As for tariffs, keeping with the analogy, let’s suppose MMB and Astute set up 10% tariffs of trade between us. Suppose I buy more off of you than you buy off me, I lose out if we set tariffs on each other. Say I buy £150 goods off of you per year, and you buy £100 off of me. Apply 10% tariffs and I get £110 off of you, but I pay you £165 now. In this scenario, because I buy more off of you I’m actually paying more than I would’ve done if we established free trade. Instead of having a -£50 trade deficit, i now have a -£55 trade deficit. I’m not worse off.
That’s roughly how these things work.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So that is why we should lose sovereignty so we can trade? Don't be silly.
And the EU doesn't give in when others won't give in to their demands?
They have agreed a budget with Italy which is much higher than they said they would allow them. How has that happened?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
If you have to adhere to EU rules and regulations, it’s at the expense of sovereignty because we’re not setting our own rules.
In the scenario I laid out, we wouldn’t have to give up soveigbty, but we will invariably be worse off with trade tariffs because we have a trade deficit, importing more than we export. What you’re saying is a strength, is actually a weakness without free trade.