The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (312 Viewers)

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Correct - it’s a stupid argument.

It’s actually funny because the idiots that make the argument portray the old as irrelevant and not in touch and the youth idyllic. The old of today in the 60’s would no doubt have been banning the bomb, peace rallies and free love. They then become wise and experienced from living life - and migrate towards capitalism

So the same youth who bang on about this is for them will look back in 50 years time and think “god was that really me saying that”

Absolutely right. We often reject the views of our own parents in our youth only to embrace what we once rejected later on simply through experiences of life.

 

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[martcov]

Correct - it’s a stupid argument.

It’s actually funny because the idiots that make the argument portray the old as irrelevant and not in touch and the youth idyllic. The old of today in the 60’s would no doubt have been banning the bomb, peace rallies and free love. They then become wise and experienced from living life - and migrate towards capitalism

So the same youth who bang on about this is for them will look back in 50 years time and think “god was that really me saying that”

I didn’t say any of that. I just said you have to count their intentions in addition to those who have changed their minds.

In the seventies I was not ban the bomb, going to peace rallies and free love. Enjoyed shagging in the back of my estate care in Staircase Lane though. I am more experienced and wiser now, which is why I would not vote leave. Based on my experience and the knowledge I now have, leave is a stupid idea and I am a capitalist. I have migrated towards international trade and cooperation with our neighbours as it seems more sensible than going back in time and searching for an identity and a world which no longer exists. I embrace the chances and benefits of being in the EU, which is the present and the future.

 

[martcov]

Then we need to have a vote every year then. It’s a stupid argument and not even scientifically proven

No we don’t. We do have elections every few years though because times change and new ideas come to the fore. We need a vote to see what the so called will of the people is before accepting the leave which we are being offered. If we are happy with the the leave that has been negotiated, then that’s it as far as I am concerned, for now, but the discussion must continue, as it did for over 40 years with the eurosceptics. What is not scientifically proven? You have to include the new voters and minus the now dead to get an accurate picture. You can’t just see how many have changed their minds on its own.

 

[Grendel]

Excellent news anyway. Corbyn confirms labour will honour Brexit and commit to the will of the people

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Excellent news anyway. Corbyn confirms labour will honour Brexit and commit to the will of the people

But surely we should hold back on brexit because in 12 months time there might be a new Labour leader with a different view.

 

[martcov]

Excellent news anyway. Corbyn confirms labour will honour Brexit and commit to the will of the people

Yes, and he says he will go to Brussels and get a better deal. So that won’t happen. He wants to subsidise inefficient businesses and/ or nationalise them. In fact being in the EU would make state subsidies more difficult, which you and I would be for. You being old and wise and therefore leaning towards capitalism.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Excellent news anyway. Corbyn confirms labour will honour Brexit and commit to the will of the people

Which makes wanting another election before Brexit absolutely pointless and they will be savaged at the polls if they try it.

 

[dutchman]

I didn’t say that. If you just rely on who has or has not changed their minds, you are not taking into account new voters or older ones dying. You have to include their intentions, and write off those in the age group with the most deaths.

You think the electorate as a whole hasn't aged?

You think the electorate hasn't become more conservative in their views as they've aged?

 

[martcov]

You think the electorate as a whole hasn't aged?

You think the electorate hasn't become more conservative in their views as they've aged?

I haven’t said they haven’t become more conservative. I count myself as conservative in attitude. I want security and stability. Brexit is a risky venture based on emotion and misinformation. I am not for a policy encouraged by the likes of Trump and Putin. To me, the latest statement by Putin that May should go ahead despite the disadvantageous circumstances for Britain, just confirms that Brexit is seen as in the interest of our adversaries. I don’t see going ahead with it as a sensible conservative thing to do. You mistake a conservative attitude with a more radical far right ideology. A true conservative would stick to what we have as opposed to attempting a radical change knowing it to be extremely risky.

 

[clint van damme]

Excellent news anyway. Corbyn confirms labour will honour Brexit and commit to the will of the people

That interview yesterday will be the end of him.
I said on this thread a long time ago Europe will be the issues that finishes him.

The centrists are determined to subvert the result of this vote. I'm not sure which I find more disturbing, their total lack of respect for democracy or the incumbent government still lacking a rudimentary understanding of how a no deal will work.

 

[martcov]

That interview yesterday will be the end of him.
I said on this thread a long time ago Europe will be the issues that finishes him.

The centrists are determined to subvert the result of this vote. I'm not sure which I find more disturbing, their total lack of respect for democracy or the incumbent government still lacking a rudimentary understanding of how a no deal will work.

Subvert is not quite correct. Ask the question again, and if the majority goes for remain, they have not subverted it as it is the majority wish. People are certainly questioning the decision though.

 

[clint van damme]

Subvert is not quite correct. Ask the question again, and if the majority goes for remain, they have not subverted it as it is the majority wish. People are certainly questioning the decision though.

It doesn't sit comfortably with me.
Holding another referendum before the first one has been implemented.
I've said before, I've heard some very well reasoned arguments for the second referendum but none persuasive enough to make me support the idea.
I know that puts me at odds with some of the contributors on here who I'm on the same page as with regard to so much else of this debate.

 

[martcov]

It doesn't sit comfortably with me.
Holding another referendum before the first one has been implemented.
I've said before, I've heard some very well reasoned arguments for the second referendum but none persuasive enough to make me support the idea.
I know that puts me at odds with some of the contributors on here who I'm on the same page as with regard to so much else of this debate.

Yes, but if you carry it out and it crashes, the costs will be immense. In that respect I am conservative ( small c ).

 

[clint van damme]

Yes, but if you carry it out and it crashes, the costs will be immense. In that respect I am conservative ( small c ).

I've no doubt it will be a disaster, (how can it be anything but when the people driving it dont understand the basic mechanics of the process?)but that's what people voted for.

 

[Captain Dart]

LOLs

 

[Grendel]

Yes, but if you carry it out and it crashes, the costs will be immense. In that respect I am conservative ( small c ).

So you are against the CBI recommendation to accept the current deal rather than have a second referendum?

 

[Grendel]

LOLs

Bright young things - remember they are the future

 

[clint van damme]

Bright young things - remember they are the future

Cornyn said he would stand by the result of referendum.
It is possible to support him but not agree with Brexit.
In the same way it is possible to agree with Brexit but support remained May who has also promised to honour the result of the referendum

 

[Grendel]

Cornyn said he would stand by the result of referendum.
It is possible to support him but not agree with Brexit.
In the same way it is possible to agree with Brexit but support remained May who has also promised to honour the result of the referendum

Come off it - most of the bright young things thought Corbyn was pro Eu as they are so bright they don’t understand socialism

 

[clint van damme]

Come off it - most of the bright young things thought Corbyn was pro Eu as they are so bright they don’t understand socialism

Most?! Nah.

 

[Grendel]

Most?! Nah.

Most of the influx of labour membership that got him to power believed he was pro Europe as they have been indoctrinated to believe that anti Europe is the voice of the right.

 

[clint van damme]

Most of the influx of labour membership that got him to power believed he was pro Europe as they have been indoctrinated to believe that anti Europe is the voice of the right.

Plenty on my social media who seemed to have a grasp of what's going on.
The civil war in Labour has ramped up a notch after the Corbyn interview.
His days are numbered now anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not sure how people are saying that youth only voted for him on the premise that he was pro EU. I don’t even remember the topic coming up in the initial leadership contest. I always thought that he got backed because he was deeply anti austerity and had socialist views on nationalisation, investment in the NHS and education. He also won the leadership competition pre referendum so again not sure where the EU angle comes into it. I think some people are trying to sell our youth short simply on the point that they’re anti brexit.

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting article on the BBC website today that explains why German car makers, French wine and cheese producers etc haven’t been beating down doors insisting on a free trade deal with the U.K. as Davis and indeed many experts on here were predicting.

Does the EU need us more than we need them?

 

[martcov]

So you are against the CBI recommendation to accept the current deal rather than have a second referendum?

I am not the CBI and I see the whole thing as to too risky. Anyway I am in my pub today... best day ever . Hundreds of Hamburg Fans with massive police presence ... 10:00 in the morning.. my street blocked.. now game on TV.. pub full .. Kiel winning 2:0 after 20 minutes.. not one Kiel fan in sight in my pub..in Kiel... I have my CCFC sweat shirt on.. neutral here..

 

[Sick Boy]

Plenty on my social media who seemed to have a grasp of what's going on.
The civil war in Labour has ramped up a notch after the Corbyn interview.
His days are numbered now anyway.

Yeah agreed, this will be the beginning of the end for him.

 

[martcov]

Our

Yeah agreed, this will be the beginning of the end for him.

I hope so. We need an opposition that can offer remain plus. It is crazy that the government and the opposition are on the same side on Brexit whilst currently more than half the country is not represented.

 

[clint van damme]

Our


I hope so. We need an opposition that can offer remain plus. It is crazy that the government and the opposition are on the same side on Brexit whilst currently more than half the country is not represented.

See I'm look at it another way, for years politicians have lied in their manifestos.
Now people are slating a politician for sticking to what he pledged.
If a Blairite takes over the helm of the Labour party I'll be politically homeless and that's exactly what I expect to happen.

 

[martcov]

See I'm look at it another way, for years politicians have lied in their manifestos.
Now people are slating a politician for sticking to what he pledged.
If a Blairite takes over the helm of the Labour party I'll be politically homeless and that's exactly what I expect to happen.

Well yes. The same as millions of others who see unmitigated disaster looming. Apart from the liberals, which party represents them?

 

[clint van damme]

Well yes. The same as millions of others who see unmitigated disaster looming. Apart from the liberals, which party represents them?

well a referendum on the final deal with an option to remain was part of the Lib dems 2017 manifesto.
Surely that's who anyone looking to overturn the referendum result should have voted for?

I just don't understand some of the vitriol aimed at Corbyn when he hasn't changed his stance.

 

[Grendel]

Well yes. The same as millions of others who see unmitigated disaster looming. Apart from the liberals, which party represents them?

Then they vote liberal

 

[martcov]

well a referendum on the final deal with an option to remain was part of the Lib dems 2017 manifesto.
Surely that's who anyone looking to overturn the referendum result should have voted for?

I just don't understand some of the vitriol aimed at Corbyn when he hasn't changed his stance.

Libdems are too small. They had their chance and blew it. They have no chance of power. The election wasn’t about yes or no to Brexit. If there is another election, the parties should put Brexit as point 1 on their manifesto. There ought to be a choice, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

[martcov]

Then they vote liberal

Yes, but there was more to the election vote than a yes:no to Brexit.

 

[clint van damme]

Libdems are too small. They had their chance and blew it. They have no chance of power. The election wasn’t about yes or no to Brexit. If there is another election, the parties should put Brexit as point 1 on their manifesto. There ought to be a choice, Brexit or no Brexit.

and this is the unique situation we're in, an election is always about more than one issue but this issue is so big it could, on its own, persuade someone to vote for a party or abandon the party they traditionally vote for based on their position on Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

Yes, but there was more to the election vote than a yes:no to Brexit.

According to you this is the single biggest crises the uk has faced for decades. What would be more important?