The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (28 Viewers)

[martcov]

I'm glad to see that you haven't become less monotonically negative and miserable whilst I've been away, Tony.

There is poverty everywhere - every single country. And I already pointed out exactly the same point when quoting the Gini Coefficient (because poverty = inequality, they are both measures of the dispersion of wealth). You will be able to smile to yourself and think that you've 'won' every conversation if the only thing you ever do is look for a single imperfection within an imperfect world and post that.

Christ, reminds me why I vanished. Here you go, wallow in this:

12 Facts About Poverty in Europe | The Borgen Project

Having a bigger gap between rich and poor and a strict authoritarian government is exactly the opposite to what many Brexit voters wanted. I thought Brexit was about improving the lot of those left behind at the expense of others living a relatively wealthy life, and about pesky regulations being imposed on them by a strict rule based organisation. Singapore sounds great for well qualified people in an occupation which is in demand, but that system would not work in the UK. We have a larger population and a different political system. Isn’t Dyson opening up an electric car factory there? Preferring Singapore to Brexit Britain. Note that report says we should continue to give foreign aid. Something that is under attack from the Brexit loving politicians.

 

---

[Astute]

What's not true?

So there is going to be a government minister making money out if it?

This just shows how badly some need to put their spin on the matter of Brexit.

Oh look. The motorways are going to become a lorry park. Everyone's going to be stranded. Goods are going to be stranded. And there us nothing that can be done about it. We must stay in the EU so it doesn't happen.

I used to travel from Ramsgate to Dunkirk frequently on the Sally line when I lived nearby. It was always full. They have been looking into starting a crossing from here.

Shipping firm with no ferries defends 'no-deal' Brexit ferry contract

So how did the government minister come into the story?

Brexit: over £100m spent on extra ferries in case of no deal

So they are doing something about the situation. I worked on Immingham docks for years. It is the biggest dock in the UK for amount of goods going through it. Not only will it take pressure off the shorter crossings but it will save thousands of lorries running up and down the motorways. There is already a ferry service from slightly further up north in Hull.

But has anyone noticed that those moaning that ferry terminals are going to be blocked and motorways are going to become lorry parks are now having a go at something being dine about it?

And then you have people like yourself trying to defend made up comments.

I am not saying that it will alleviate all the problems. I am not even saying that it is a good idea. But I am pointing out how unreal and biased some of the comments made are.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There are some huge challenges on future trade that are genuine though astute. Doesn’t change anything about short and medium term better economically staying in and long term who knows but I’ve not seen any brexiteers tell me how long any benefits are or a genuine plan as to how that would work. So rhees mogg says 50 years before we see the benefits and others like fox saying that trade details will be easy. Rhees mogg won’t give a shit he’s minted and will make money either way. It will be the vulnerable who suffer

 

[clint van damme]

So there is going to be a government minister making money out if it?

This just shows how badly some need to put their spin on the matter of Brexit.

Oh look. The motorways are going to become a lorry park. Everyone's going to be stranded. Goods are going to be stranded. And there us nothing that can be done about it. We must stay in the EU so it doesn't happen.

I used to travel from Ramsgate to Dunkirk frequently on the Sally line when I lived nearby. It was always full. They have been looking into starting a crossing from here.

Shipping firm with no ferries defends 'no-deal' Brexit ferry contract

So how did the government minister come into the story?

Brexit: over £100m spent on extra ferries in case of no deal

So they are doing something about the situation. I worked on Immingham docks for years. It is the biggest dock in the UK for amount of goods going through it. Not only will it take pressure off the shorter crossings but it will save thousands of lorries running up and down the motorways. There is already a ferry service from slightly further up north in Hull.

But has anyone noticed that those moaning that ferry terminals are going to be blocked and motorways are going to become lorry parks are now having a go at something being dine about it?

And then you have people like yourself trying to defend made up comments.

I am not saying that it will alleviate all the problems. I am not even saying that it is a good idea. But I am pointing out how unreal and biased some of the comments made are.

I don't know where the government minister comes in to it that's why I was asking what isn't true.

Where have I defended a made up comment. You've made that up, which is ironic.

 

[Astute]

I don't know where the government minister comes in to it that's why I was asking what isn't true.

Where have I defended a made up comment. You've made that up, which is ironic.

Can't you read your own post?

An allegation is made with no foundation. I question the comment. Then you ask which part of the comment is wrong.

Not defending the post in any way are you......

 

[Astute]

There are some huge challenges on future trade that are genuine though astute. Doesn’t change anything about short and medium term better economically staying in and long term who knows but I’ve not seen any brexiteers tell me how long any benefits are or a genuine plan as to how that would work. So rhees mogg says 50 years before we see the benefits and others like fox saying that trade details will be easy. Rhees mogg won’t give a shit he’s minted and will make money either way. It will be the vulnerable who suffer

As you know I fully agree with you.

But how can anyone genuinely say what is going to happen when we don't even know the basics of any sort of trade deal?

All we ever hear is that it WILL be bad. But we don't even know that. To me there is as much chance of it being great as there is of being a disaster. I see it as the proper negotiations will start mid year. Then we will have a better idea.

And I try not to listen to anyone who is pro Brexit or Pro EU as they only want you to hear about 1 side of the story.

 

[clint van damme]

Can't you read your own post?

An allegation is made with no foundation. I question the comment. Then you ask which part of the comment is wrong.

Not defending the post in any way are you......

I asked what isn't true. It's a question.
The post by CD wasn't without foundation though was it? It looks like it is another potential waste of money by the government who are supposedly skint, but as usual you jump to their defence.

You answered my question saying no government minister is due to benefit, you may be right, I have no idea. But that is just one part of his post.

 

[Astute]

I asked what isn't true. It's a question.
The post by CD wasn't without foundation though was it? It looks like it is another potential waste of money by the government who are supposedly skint, but as usual you jump to their defence.

You answered my question saying no government minister is due to benefit, you may be right, I have no idea. But that is just one part of his post.

Try again.

He made out that some minister is on the make. When I questioned what he said you asked me what was wrong with his post. And that was after me pointing it out. Yet now you never said it.

 

[clint van damme]

Try again.

He made out that some minister is on the make. When I questioned what he said you asked me what was wrong with his post. And that was after me pointing it out. Yet now you never said it.

You try again. I asked what wasn't true. You said about the minister.
I haven't agreed or disagreed with that I simply don't know. I don't know who the board or the investors are.
I do find it strange that 3 contracts have been awarded. 2 to experienced ferry companies and 1 to a company with no experience, no ferries, and operating out of a port that might not be ready in time.
Even you must find that strange?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

As you know I fully agree with you.

But how can anyone genuinely say what is going to happen when we don't even know the basics of any sort of trade deal?

All we ever hear is that it WILL be bad. But we don't even know that. To me there is as much chance of it being great as there is of being a disaster. I see it as the proper negotiations will start mid year. Then we will have a better idea.

And I try not to listen to anyone who is pro Brexit or Pro EU as they only want you to hear about 1 side of the story.

Who do you recognise as centrist and balanced then astute? Other than me of course. Sorry that really is a joke

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You try again. I asked what wasn't true. You said about the minister.
I haven't agreed or disagreed with that I simply don't know. I don't know who the board or the investors are.
I do find it strange that 3 contracts have been awarded. 2 to experienced ferry companies and 1 to a company with no experience, no ferries, and operating out of a port that might not be ready in time.
Even you must find that strange?

Cynicism says someone’s on the make but proper journalists need to find some evidence and they will given time

 

[Astute]

You try again. I asked what wasn't true. You said about the minister.
I haven't agreed or disagreed with that I simply don't know. I don't know who the board or the investors are.
I do find it strange that 3 contracts have been awarded. 2 to experienced ferry companies and 1 to a company with no experience, no ferries, and operating out of a port that might not be ready in time.
Even you must find that strange?

Find what strange?

I question what someone says. You ask what was wring with what he said when I had already said what was wrong. Now you make out that you was asking not knowing.

 

[Astute]

Who do you recognise as centrist and balanced then astute? Other than me of course. Sorry that really is a joke

Anyone who doesn't constantly attack the same sides without questioning the other sides.

It is so clear to see.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Anyone who doesn't constantly attack the same sides without questioning the other sides.

It is so clear to see.

Sorry I genuinely mean who do you see as centrist? Politically? Who do you trust the opinion of ?

 

[Astute]

Cynicism says someone’s on the make but proper journalists need to find some evidence and they will given time

But it was started up nearly a year ago. They used to run ferries from there. As I said I used to get the boat from there about every 2 weeks. I was in the Sally club. Fiver a crossing and you had a card to get stamped. 10 crossings get one free. I used to try and get 10 people to go and then go for free. Stay on the boat at France and get smashed.

The company still running from there went under about 5 years ago.

It isn't as though it has all been put together in the last few weeks.

Yes have a go at those who have or are doing wrong. But not just make things up like some love doing.

 

[Astute]

Sorry I genuinely mean who do you see as centrist? Politically? Who do you trust the opinion of ?

I trust none of them.

Politics in the UK are a mess. They were a mess before Brexit. Too many have made it a career choice and do what is best to further their career.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I trust none of them.

Politics in the UK are a mess. They were a mess before Brexit. Too many have made it a career choice and do what is best to further their career.

That’s a gove answer though surely. You seemed to be suggesting that you don’t listen to anyone other than your own voice all be it pretty balanced. There must be some voices who are experts you listen to. One of my go to people is a colleague who works in international trade at my work. The negotiations are hugely complex and take a long time. That’s balanced

 

[chiefdave]

He made out that some minister is on the make. When I questioned what he said you asked me what was wrong with his post. And that was after me pointing it out. Yet now you never said it.

I didn't state it as fact, I posed a question.

Maybe you can give us an alternative theory on why the government has given £14m to a company with no assets, no ships and no experience of running ferries.

Sure this is all just a coincidence but it seems the Seabourne Freight address, 59 Mansell Street, is also the address of a company called Campbell Johnson Clark. They have a director named Mark Bamford whose father is apparently Anthony Bamford, the Conservative's largest donor at the last election.

The biggest donation to the Conservatives was £1.5m from JCB, the company linked to Anthony Bamford, a Conservative peer and industrialist who also helped fund the Brexit campaign.

 

[Sick Boy]

I didn't state it as fact, I posed a question.

Maybe you can give us an alternative theory on why the government has given £14m to a company with no assets, no ships and no experience of running ferries.

Sure this is all just a coincidence but it seems the Seabourne Freight address, 59 Mansell Street, is also the address of a company called Campbell Johnson Clark. They have a director named Mark Bamford whose father is Anthony Bamford, the Conservative's largest donor at the last election.

Yeah, a huge coincidence that haha! I’m sure he’d be just as balanced on this if it was someone within the EU.

 

[Astute]

I didn't state it as fact, I posed a question.

Maybe you can give us an alternative theory on why the government has given £14m to a company with no assets, no ships and no experience of running ferries.

Sure this is all just a coincidence but it seems the Seabourne Freight address, 59 Mansell Street, is also the address of a company called Campbell Johnson Clark. They have a director named Mark Bamford whose father is Anthony Bamford, the Conservative's largest donor at the last election.

You stated a question?

You made a statement more like. You stated that you wouldn't be surprised if a minister was on the take. How can you make it out to be a question?

 

[Astute]

Yeah, a huge coincidence that haha! I’m sure he’d be just as balanced on this if it was someone within the EU.

Is that right?

We are supposed to be agreeing that someone is guilty of being on the take. But we don't even have any slight evidence. Usual day on here.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is that right?

We are supposed to be agreeing that someone is guilty of being on the take. But we don't even have any slight evidence. Usual day on here.

Yeah because you never mention corruption within the EU, and are always demanding clear evidence.

This is worth a read

 

[chiefdave]

How can you make it out to be a question?

Thought the question mark at the end would have given a clue it was a question and not a statement of fact.

Why do you think the government has given £14m to a company with no ships that have never run a single ferry?

 

[Astute]

That’s a gove answer though surely. You seemed to be suggesting that you don’t listen to anyone other than your own voice all be it pretty balanced. There must be some voices who are experts you listen to. One of my go to people is a colleague who works in international trade at my work. The negotiations are hugely complex and take a long time. That’s balanced

I try not to take much notice that constantly rant about staying in the EU or leaving the EU. They normally have something to gain or an ulterior motive. You only get a biased version off them. The problem is that most are now in or out. There is no inbetween. That is why I say I don't trust most of them.

 

[Astute]

Yeah because you never mention corruption within the EU, and are always demanding clear evidence.

This is worth a read

Yes I did mention corruption in the EU. Are you saying that it shouldn't be mentioned?

I have mentioned corruption in the UK government. Why did you never pick me up on that?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I didn't state it as fact, I posed a question.

Maybe you can give us an alternative theory on why the government has given £14m to a company with no assets, no ships and no experience of running ferries.

Sure this is all just a coincidence but it seems the Seabourne Freight address, 59 Mansell Street, is also the address of a company called Campbell Johnson Clark. They have a director named Mark Bamford whose father is apparently Anthony Bamford, the Conservative's largest donor at the last election.

Excellent work

 

[chiefdave]

Excellent work

Not mine, came from the group who have been digging since the company was formed as they had suspicions from the off. They're the ones who passed it to the press.

 

[Astute]

Thought the question mark at the end would have given a clue it was a question and not a statement of fact.

Why do you think the government has given £14m to a company with no ships that have never run a single ferry?

They have been looking into starting a ferry service for nearly a year from Ramsgate. I'm not saying that they are the best to go with. But who is further down the line than them? We are running out of time. And you know that.

Which government minister is going to eventually be found to have links to Seaborne Freight?

And here it is again. The question mark is because you are asking who it is and not like you are trying to say. Otherwise you would have worded it differently .

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah because you never mention corruption within the EU, and are always demanding clear evidence.

This is worth a read

Looks very dodgy

 

[Astute]

Not mine, came from the group who have been digging since the company was formed as they had suspicions from the off. They're the ones who passed it to the press.

Passed it to the press? It hasn't been a secret that they have been trying to get the service going.

Just like those who rant about a people's vote. It is as though people didn't vote first time.

 

[Astute]

Looks very dodgy

Yes it does. But it is the view from one side only.

Can you imagine what Brexit would look like if we only had the version from one side on here?

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes I did mention corruption in the EU. Are you saying that it shouldn't be mentioned?

I have mentioned corruption in the UK government. Why did you never pick me up on that?

Where have I said it shouldn’t be mentioned?

You’re doing your best now to rubbish any suggestion that this could be corrupt

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes it does. But it is the view from one side only.

Can you imagine what Brexit would look like if we only had the version from one side on here?

One side of what? What are you on about?

What has people pointing this stuff out got to do with a person’s view of Brexit? It has nothing to do with one’s preference to remain or leave.

 

[Sick Boy]

Looks very dodgy

Yeah it does indeeed, how anyone can attempt to defend this and keep a straight face is beyond me.

 

[Astute]

Where have I said it shouldn’t be mentioned?

You’re doing your best now to rubbish any suggestion that this could be corrupt

Happy New year :happy:

Read back. The question was which person is corrupt. That is what I pointed out.

It is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Now you want someone found guilty when you don't even have a name to throw mud at.