A question. Is this study on the difference between the EPA level and the higher VW level? Or on the whole NOx emissions?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (132 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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A question. Is this study on the difference between the EPA level and the higher VW level? Or on the whole NOx emissions?
You lost me. The disagreement was about the leader of a non political march retweeting right wing crap.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Not we, just you.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh dear
I see leaving as self harm, which by definition is not a rational act.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You are the king of straw manning. The title is yours.
I just find it baffling how you attribute positions to people they have never expressed and claim they've said things they haven't come close to mentioning. Yes energy goes in to building cars powered in different ways. It still goes into building fossil fuel powered cars and the catalytic converters needed to make them spew out less crap. The EU's own advisors didn't try to bury the information but lobbyist money talks. That is how American politics has worked for some time and in a more subtle way is how our press got the Leveson inquiry shelved.
It isn't right and I don't like it.
Exactly my sentiment. You seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The paper is comparing EPA levels with the VW levels.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Is it? So your link is frim 2015. As stated in other links the information gathered has changed what they think. There is plenty of new evidence out there. The link you provided was based on the NOx that was thought to be coming from cars. But since then we certainly know differently. Some German cars spew out 30 times or more than stated. Or are the Germans wrong on what is happening in their own country?
Diesel fumes lead to thousands more deaths than thought
[Investigation] Diesel cars contribute to about 10,000 deaths a year
NOx emissions linked to 6,000 premature deaths a year in Germany
Particles from diesel engines are causing deaths in Ireland
Bet it took ages to find one saying as low as you claim. All I did was Google NOx deaths. All say thousands a year. Are they all wrong?
So the total including EPA is much more? Which could be Astute‘s figure? Of his figure could be worldwide. The German environment group is intending monitoring emissions on the Autobahns. Which will be interesting.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Your articles are all about total deaths arising from diesel engines. The study I've given you is about the impact of Volkswagen's criminal activity over the timeframe they were doing it. You can find it on the Wikipedia article about the emissions scandal-it isn't hard to find.
You seem to think that copy pasting piles of links with edgy titles is enough to seal the deal. Good try but not quite.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It’s just a fucking mess now. I can’t believe she is able to manipulate parliament in such a way. Once this is over, there needs to be a serious overhaul of parliament and its procedures.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes it is but Astute hasn't cottoned onto that fact yet.
Astute
Well-Known Member
When someone says something I pick them up on it. I don't make things up. If I did I have enough shadows on here trying to find fault with every single post I make. But all I get is false accusations. Maybe just to change the subject most of the time. Not my fault I have to reply to so many shadows that want to defend the EU all the time.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yeah but you consistently make up what people have said to you previously. Just makes constructive debate harder.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The problem is who do we have that is strong enough, holds enough power and is willing to do anything about it? We used to have MP's that had experience in life. Now they leave Uni and go straight into politics. They take the easy route. And they want the easy life. Keep it going as it is.
It has been a joke for years. The last Labour government was the Tories in disguise. So we have had a Tory type of government for a lot of years now. You can tell by looking at how the poorer of the UK are suffering.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Point out where I have been wrong then.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Besides you bizarrely forgetting to have posted about Germany within half an hour yesterday, there's this
'Yet you say this is me against electric vehicles. Not at all. It is putting the point over to people that think diesel engines have only killed 60 people.'
Never said you were against electric vehicles or claimed diesel engines to have killed just 60 people.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So I forgot that I mentioned Germany in a post. It wasn't like a rant or anything. I mentioned all types of pollution from electric cars to the diesel scandal. It was a part of that. But you only read and took note of certain words.
But you are getting as bad as Tony and Mart on the subject. Mellow out and say what you see. Being biased on here won't change the situation. If you make a mistake just admit it. Don't dig a bigger hole. You are better than that.
After this I showed several links that showed the extra NOx being pumped into the air is causing thousands of deaths a year. Your reply was...
I know I can piss people off. But I hate liars and I totally dislike people saying false things about me. I am like a dog with a bone when it happens. Hold your hand up and just say you made a mistake and that is the end of it. Or you can carry on digging a hole and I will keep giving you a bigger spade.
What’s that got to do with the paper that was quoted? It was about the difference between EPA and VW in America.
Actually none of your links show that he made a mistake according to his clarification. He claims the study was about the difference between deaths caused up to the EPA limit, and deaths caused on top of this by VW exceeding the limit in the USA and in a certain time period. Not total deaths in the USA or deaths in Germany. I am not saying the study is or isn’t correct, but you are barking up the wrong tree. As is often the case.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The link he posted was from before the fiasco covered up by the EU on diesel engines in Germany was uncovered. Just like I said previously. So the research was on vastly lower numbers of emissions. The links I put up were after the new data was used.
Or for once would you like to come out with some evidence to back what you say.
Or are you now calling Germany liars for saying so?
An example concerning people like myself:
Briten in Deutschland drohen bei hartem Brexit Probleme
In German but you can translate it.
Basically I lose my right to live and work in Germany immediately in the case of no deal. That means I have 90 days before I get thrown out. Unless they consider individual cases and I get a residents permit. To do that I have to apply and be assessed.
In my case I got German citizenship to avoid that, but you have to have lived 8 years and not be on benefits to have a chance of that as an EU citizen. For Brits that have not lived here long enough, it is a worrying time.
I am saying read his clarification. I am not arguing about how many deaths in total. Just pointing out what he said. Which, whether or not, the figure is higher on new evidence, was about a certain example. You quote other more general figures, or figures from another country, not an update based on new information of his example.
German figures have no direct correlation with his example of the difference between US EPA emissions and VW emissions during a certain time.
And I don’t say the Germans are lying as I always stick up for Germany and the EU according to you.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I see some “grown up” Brexit voters were having a “grown up” Brexit protest” on TV yesterday.
MPs write to Met chief over 'Nazi' abuse
The mentality of these people.
MPs write to Met chief over 'Nazi' abuse
The mentality of these people.
How did the EU cover up the fiasco in Germany? Did the Council of 28 governments do that? Or the parliament of over 700 MEPs? What were their motives?
The AfD is under Fire here for spreading fake news, or rather downright lies. They are now being physically attacked on the streets and one of their offices was just bombed. Their leader in the state of Bremen has been beaten up. They smashed his head in with a wooden block and kicked his head whilst he was on the ground. Politics is getting rougher. I don’t agree with either, the moronic chanting of radical leavers, or masked, presumably leftists, beating democratically elected representatives up.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I just find that labelling an MP who wants a continuation of democracy a nazi is more than a little ironic. Would anyone really be surprised if the people shouting the Nazi slur were far right? That makes it all the more ironic.
Keep seeing this level of irony. As a personal anecdote I was out with a group of friends over Xmas and inevitably Brexit was discussed between beers and playing pool. One of my brexit voting friends said he was sick and tired of being labelled a racist for voting Brexit, a remain voting friend replied using the Billy Brag line “that not all leavers are racist but all racist are leavers and it’s probably not a good idea to be on the same side as racists” pointing out that the problem is one of association rather than a direct statement of himself. Well he liked that even less and his mood changed. Anyway the conversation continued onto immigration and a different leave voting mate said he doesn’t think that there should be a problem of not controlling your own borders, the conversation went on with comments about most of our immigration being non EU, EU migrants come here to work so the economy controls numbers, successive governments have failed to operate fully the controls under EU law so more could have been done to control EU migration without leaving ect ect. The guy who used the Billy Brag quote then said something along the lines of I hope that people who voted leave on immigration aren’t too disappointed when the only major change in immigration won’t be the numbers it will be the demographic so lost EU immigration will be replaced with non EU migration, most likely from the commonwealth and most likely people of “colour” at which point the mate still clearly seething over the Billy Brag comment jumped in and labelled him a racist for bringing people of “colour” into the conversation. At which point everyone else leave or remain united and pissed themselves laughing at him. To be fair he texted everyone the next day and apologised pointing out it was the beer talking and he was being a prat. But it’s an example of how people’s arguments seem to be name calling people who don’t agree with you something they either are themselves or the extreme of their own opinions. Ie being anti immigration doesn’t automatically make you a racist but people with this opinion (racist or not) seem very quick to label someone who isn’t anti immigration a racist jumping on them because they’ve done something like point out that people with black skin have black skin. The further right you go the more common this practice seems to be. Hence I wouldn’t be surprised if the “men” shouting Nazi outside Parliament yesterday were of far right background/beliefs. You see it more on platforms like Facebook and Twitter, hence I personally don’t bother with them.
Rant over.
Yes. Just shows how buttons are being pushed. I prefer EU migrants, whatever colour or religion, simply because of the reciprocal arrangements. We can have both EU and non EU as far as I am concerned, but if there has to be a choice, I would take countries which offer us the same rights as a priority over others which don’t. I certainly wouldn’t be stopping FOM which entails taking rights off British citizens.
And, as you say, the ones shouting Nazi find themselves on the same side as Nazis.
My brother claims he stands for free speech and people don’t have the right to be offended. Now he is hurt and upset because he had to take one of his FB posts down as it would make him „unemployable“ according to others. They don’t like it when people criticise them on SM. Snowflakes.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
May is playing a game of political brinksmanship. Delaying the vote is doing two things; forcing Brexiteer MPs to choose between a Brexit of sorts, or risk not leaving at all and for Remain MPs, the risk of a no deal Brexit.
She’s in an impossible position. Brexiteer MPs consider a no deal Brexit increasingly attractive, and are backed up by the Tory membership on that. Since Labour have pledged to block a no deal, and are planning to whip its MPs on that. The Government risks facing a vote of no confidence and other humiliating Parliamentary defeats. The Government will probably crumble.
Moreover, the appetite for a second referendum is significant if May’s deal is rejected (64% polled in favour of new referendum).
Theresa May’s time as PM will be remembered as one crisis after another.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I see it’s all kicking off over post brexit tax plans now if no deal Bid to limit tax powers if no-deal Brexit
„The documents described by Spiegel Online showed that the European Commission's intention to investigate more closely were frustrated by European carmakers' opposition, ministry spokesman Stephan Gabriel Haufe wrote, adding that the German government had supported the intention“
Astute
Well-Known Member
Who makes the rules? Whose job is it to make sure the rules are kept to? How did the USA deal with the matter?
The German government didn't want to do anything. The car makers put billions into diesel engines. It was a failed project. They needed breathing space until they could go electric.
So why do you say the EU did nothing and now chases the countries that bought the cars and not those who cheated their rules?
And I take it you are happy with the info I gave you as you have dropped the argument you tried to cause on the matter.