Astute
Well-Known Member
Was the one made in the UK designed to bypass emissions tests like those built in Germany?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (120 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
How would it be undemocratic if the electorate voted against Brexit in another referendum?
It’s not just me, if May’s deal gets rejected about 64% want a second referendum. Seems like it would be undemocratic to just go through with Brexit without a deal.
It’s an oxymoron: ‘undemocratic referendum’
Hitler liked referenda and he got decisive results. Which is why Germany doesn’t allow National referenda. Too easy for right wingers to manipulate the result by winding people up.
Ask Grendel about that. What tests were carried out on my LR Discovery?
Astute
Well-Known Member
It would be undemocratic to ignore a referendum.
Just like it would be if there was another one and we voted remain. Then the leavers stamped their feet until there was yet another one.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
With another referendum, yes.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
<insert dictators name> is not a valid political argument.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
If the electorate still wanted to leave the EU, then sure, why not have a choice of what kind of Brexit we wanted.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
The electorate does. Refer referendum result.
Does no longer. Refer to shift in polls.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You are basing public views on 25,000 people not on 85% of the electorate at the last election who supported parties believing we should leave
If the result was remain and then a referendum came down in remain but a week later leave came on top in the polls we need another
You are basing your view on a tiny percentage and on presented with a question that did not even allow the poll participants to consider a no deal option. So it’s hugely skewed - it’s sponsored by a remain group and backed by the remain press
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I’m sure people Leave would’ve won the referendum had the electorate known we were headed for a ‘no deal’ Brexit...
... Or May’s deal, which is worst of both worlds, of remaining tied to the EU indefinitely. Without the perks of EU membership, and without the perks of a no deal.
That 2% majority must be very strong.
What good argument is there to not have a second referendum? Anally clinging on to referendum before the details of what Brexit actually looks like isn’t much of an argument.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Martcov has mentioned him 104 times on this thread old fruit
The EU: In, out, shake it all about....
Astute
Well-Known Member
Not far off.
YouGov use weighted results. They don't give the results as people say. They change them a bit. That is why every poll they have done on Brexit favours remain. They also use the same in favour of the Tories.
Now I await comments from the usual suspects.
The poll was carried out by a reputable company.
The parties at the election had other things in their manifestos.
No one knew what May‘s deal was at that time.
Astute
Well-Known Member
What 2% majority are you talking about? Can't think of one.
How much do they change them by?
Yes, in reply to you old fruit. Like just now. How many times did you mention Hitler or the fourth Reich?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
For me the problem is that we didn’t have a referendum following the last one on terms. We’re where we are today because the government were never given a mandate for what brexit should be. Yes I know you know what you voted for but can you just clear up for me did you vote for a no deal hard brexit? A Canada/Canada+ brexit? A Norway/Norway+ brexit? A Theresa May brexit? And there’s the problem and it’s been the problem since the day after the referendum. Regardless of whether you voted leave or remain you should still be allowed to have a say in what brexit should look like. Anything less is undemocractic. If you want to deny the voter that opportunity then you have to accept that leave means whatever May delivers and if you voted leave that’s what you voted for. If you voted leave and can’t accept that then you probably need to grow up.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
But you hate referendums anyway don’t you? The poll was commissioned by a biased company
You mentioned Hitler 74 times.
So.. 74 for Hitler and 28 for Reich..total 102. Not bad.
I hate referenda, especially the ones without a qualified majority, a s they can be manipulated ( as in the Brexit fiasco ). But, now we are playing that game, we are obligated to follow with a referendum if we are to avert this madness.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s about you Mart. He made a comment to me that you liked yet you’ve said referendum are the devil incarnate and say Hitler and Stalin always used them as democracy.
At least be honest and tell him referendums are in your view undemocratic and the tool of the dictator.
I don’t care who commissioned it. The question was whether it was carried out by a reputable company.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How many in response to you? Your knowledge of him is.....interesting
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You don’t care. So if the EDL commissioned a poll through them you wouldn’t care.
Interesting
I just have said why I don’t like them. I have not mentioned Stalin ( Grendel goes to search ), but I have mentioned Putin and Sadam Hussein as further examples.
No. If it were a reputable company. There are some who would get the results the commissioner wanted, but my qualification was „ reputable company“.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Mucca has written an essay so we need to acknowledge his expertise
Yes, I did social and economic history at A level. We touched on the third Reich. I have also talked with people who lived through it and visited the Documentation Center at Nürnberg. Very interesting to recognise how these things evolve.
I acknowledge his attempt at a rational debate on here.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you acknowledge he agreed with you. You admitted anyone who doesn’t you find irrational.
You’ve sided with a ukip voter who labelled another poster monkey boy (a vile racist slur) and has admitted he’d happily side with a fan of Tommy Robinson as long as he supports your view. Tony is rational in your demented mind.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Depends on age, gender,topic and race. For instance there are more women than men in the UK. So they take male votes and female votes then change the full result onpercentages. Something like 2% on average alone on this IIRC. Then they always change towards the Tories as they say some people don't like admitting to voting Tory.....although it is done privately......
Is the result reasonably accurate?
No I didn’t. I said I disagree with several posters who are generally on my side and would find it strange if they always agreed with me.
I also said that I view Brexit as self harm and therefore irrational.
I disagree with Tony on some things and with you on a lot of things.