Grendel
Well-Known Member
The only one if that hapless bunch who’d do it would be the slime ball Grieve
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (85 Viewers)
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The only one if that hapless bunch who’d do it would be the slime ball Grieve
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
If my memory serves me correctly, didn't you a while back declare that you voted in the original referendum in the 1970's to join the common market ? That puts you over 60 years of age by my reckoning .
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
She says a lot of stuff but doesn't do very much. She's an opportunist, has heavily voted for the austerity policies that helped stoke the anger that led to brexit yet takes no responsibility for it. The fact that some (apparently) left leaning remainers hold her in esteem shows their warped priorities.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which is why I say I can see us staying in the EU if the May deal goes through or not. Just don't have any idea in which way though.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Even Michael Foot campaigned with Enoch Powell.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The Express?
Just wait for the remain whatever lot on here. You are not allowed to quote the Express..
Oh wait silly me. You want to remain whatever so you can quote who you want :shifty:
I can see Sourby maybe doing it. But remember politicians are not the most truthful people out there.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which is entirely understandable - why is that strange?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t expressing a problem with it? The example demonstrates that two people from two polar opposites of the political spectrum.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No - they have identical ideology on Europe as does Corbyn McDonnell and Rees Mogg
It’s a natural fit as far right and far left despise centralisation
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Grendel asked who threatened to vote against the link, the article has all the information that is needed. You can find what the politicians said, be it on twitter or whatever. The fact it’s from the Express is unimportant as it wasn’t an opinion piece.
Its also on Sky News, the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Huffington Post and the Independent too — that’s off a basic google search.
It’s funny, you claim to be on ‘crusade’ for ‘the truth’, yet when I was challenged on which Tory MPs would vote against the government in a vote of no confidence, I provide names. You go off on some diatribe about me thinking I can quote whatever I want because I want to remain? It’s silly stuff. How about go and read the article and you’ll see it’s just quote a few politicians as opposed to some diatribe on how Brexit is going to be.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I’m already aware of this otherwise I wouldn’t have used the example.
They also had an admiration for one another and had copperated in Parliament beforehand. Despite being ideologically opposed.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So after this rant I take it you believe what politicians say?
Look back as far as you want in this thread. I am old enough to know that you can't trust a politician. And most of all you can't trust a party leader. This includes both the Tories and Labour before you make the comment.
And isn't it strange how you think that those in support of remain will go against their own party if there is a vote of confidence yet you refuse to consider that those who want to leave could also go against their party. And that is without their party holding power to lose like the Tories.
The Express comment wasn't aimed at you in the slightest. Those it was aimed at know exactly who they are. If you wasn't remain whatever there were certain news outlets you were not allowed to quote on here. But if they had a piece in favour of remaining it was put straight up.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Astute doesn’t read articles. He reads headlines and then makes assumptions on the content of the article, usually wrong. Most of the articles he links dismiss his own point of view and enforces yours.
Funny how the far right and far left governments always end up being centralised dictatorships.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s almost as if people who have been conditioned to be far left by a repressive dictatorship such as East Germany fall naturally to the far right when liberated by democracy such as the Berlin Wall falling and the unification of Germany. It’s almost as if when you go as left as possible the next place to go is far right. I’m sure someone was saying that wasn’t possible the other day? By any chance is it the same poster who’s now painted far left and right with the same brush?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
No, I don’t take what politicians say at face value. But, when politicians state publicly they’re going to vote against the Government, they’re putting their career at risk. For that reason, I’m inclined to believe they really mean that, especially coming from MPs who don’t want Brexit. Nick Boles is facing calls to be deselected from his seat for his position.
Where have I said Brexiteer/Leave MPs won’t vote against the Government? The MPs who have publicly said they will vote against the Government happen to be Remainers. Jacob Rees-Mogg has said he would vote against the Government, but, he’s just one MP and 116 other MPs have no confidence in the PM. Is it far-fetched that a number Brexiteer MPs may be willing to bring down May and/or the Government to get a Brexiteer PM? I’d say it’s not far-fetched. But, there’s not much evidence to suggest that is the case. Right now, the Remainer Tories seem the more likely to break ranks with the Government.
The old lady who was my neighbour in Hamburg in the 80s said don’t trust either extremes. Hamburg was a red fortress before the Nazis came to power. She said plenty of them became Nazis when the Nazis took over. I was living in a traditional working class neighborhood.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You quoted Soubrey who is incredibly opportunist but ultimately does nothing
Tell you what - if there is a vote of no confidence against the government I’ll bet you no more than 3 Tories will jump ship to labour
£40 to charity with proof of payment - up for it?
Astute
Well-Known Member
You added up how many would be needed for Tories to vote in a no confidence against the Tories. You then took it as though every other MP would vote against the Tories. You talk as though it is a foregone conclusion. But many will go along with their electorate. And remember the majority in the referendum was twice as large in England as it was for the UK as a whole. The DUP will vote on the side of the Tories. They have already stated so.
Many MP's these days are career MP's. Nothing like the old days where they did it to make a difference. Many will vote which way most probably keeps them their seat. It sounds like you expect many Tories to say that the Tories are not fit to rule.
Why else do you think that Corbyn hasn't forced the issue already?
Astute
Well-Known Member
It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas :smuggrin:
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You do realise that you’re backing the poster with the worst record of predicting vote outcomes on the entire site. The Tories were going to consign Corbyn and Labour to the scrap heap in the last election remember.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Fascinating can you give an example of the co operation beforehand
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So you believe Jeremy Corbyn is an extremist?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
House of Lords reforms or at least attempting to reform the House of Lords. Quite famously as well. Surprised you need to ask the question.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Yep, 1968 they combined to defeat the Wilson's House of Lords reform.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don't gamble, unfortunately.
We'll have to wait and see, I'm not a fan of Soubry myself, but her and Boles' comments in public are nonetheless significant. They don't exactly have a lot to gain by making their views public.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Couldn’t remember if it was a victory or not. Just remember reading it in several papers when Foot died. In fact most papers concentrated on that collaboration more than the EEC collaboration IIRC.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
The wanking over David Lammy today is really quite nauseating.
I've heard several Labour supporters saying how great they'd be if he took over leadership.
Quite incredible really.
I've heard several Labour supporters saying how great they'd be if he took over leadership.
Quite incredible really.
No. I think Hamburg was a red fortress before the war, but the reds quickly became browns. Von Ribbentrop was impressed by some similarities of views in the Soviet Union when he was over there.
Any particular reason you don’t like Lammy?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
He wants a second referendum, is that not enough?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Getting ready for a leadership battle?
She had a majority of 800 IIRC. She is MP in an area that voted leave. But she is in her 60's. Not exactly looking for a long future in politics so no problem for her to be following what she believes in.
But she isn't your typical MP.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
TBF Lammy can be pretty terrible, his fuelling the Grendel conspiracy theories didn’t help. He’d be an awful leader. But then so would every other Labour MP.
A majority want a second referendum as far as I can see: Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum - poll
Tell you what’s interesting, is the drop in don’t knows since the referendum, look at this: suggests the vast majority are stuck in the way they voted. Says something interesting about how we rationalise and defend our actions IMO.
A majority want a second referendum as far as I can see: Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum - poll
Tell you what’s interesting, is the drop in don’t knows since the referendum, look at this: suggests the vast majority are stuck in the way they voted. Says something interesting about how we rationalise and defend our actions IMO.
He also explained his reasoning for that. I suppose he hit the nail on the head as far as many are concerned. The country needs people to get up and say clearly why we have to have another referendum. The whole thing is a mess and in a usual democracy you have a choice when there is a plan on the table. Labour and Tory leadership don’t offer an alternative to Brexit. There is no real choice. Crap decision or less crap decision. Remain should be back on the table. Half the country want it.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
"Alledged...claims...allegations"...no facts, nothing proven. I haven't seen or heard him show ANY bias on Brexit (nor anything else tbh)
Sticker...the sort of thing many of us would display - it can be part of humour. Like have you ever told a joke, or laughed at one about gays? Does that mean you are homophobic?
Like I said...subtle form of bullying in an effort to distract & discredit to get him replaced by a Brexit sympathiser who would perhaps show some bias. Personally I would rather stick with the current Speaker.
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