Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I thought the UK was still innocent until proven guilty? You seem to have made some pretty serious allegations here.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (52 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
I thought the UK was still innocent until proven guilty? You seem to have made some pretty serious allegations here.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Who knows? But I doubt you’d have attacked their freedom or expression and abused them if they had called for one.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
It's completely about the point being debated on.
I don't care if you are a leaver or remainer, wanting a second referendum is completely absurd.
You can do your usual 'what are you talking about now' line, but the point I'm making still stands. Wanting a second referendum makes you a moron. Especially when those try to make it out to be anything other than being a sore loser and wanting to overturn the result.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Says who?You? You don’t decide whether people vote again or not. Democracy is not a once in a lifetime occasion. That is dictatorship.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
So let's have a second referendum next week.
Schedule a third for the week after that.
Maybe a forth the week after.
This is from the pro-remain leaflet that millions was spent on.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Didn’t you say there should not be another vote again if we voted to stay second time around?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Point of my post spectacularly missed again. I'll let you have the last word I'm more interested in the game
Yes. I said it should be the end of referenda. Future membership of the EU should be decided by the parliament- as it should have always been.
I don’t see lifetime there. In any case, what is now on the table can only result in the UK being poorer. Which is not what the leave campaign promised. Are you content zone poorer for a generation to prove a point?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So it should now then surely?
I have no idea what you mean, but I have a bottle of Poitin in front of me. So that’s all for now. Had a busy day.
Interesting (appears neutral/fair) article
Post-truth politics is alive and well in Brexit Britain - CNN
Two questions about the May deal for both sides.
Brexiteers - If the vote doesn’t go through it appears that a softer brexit (permanent customs union - same as backstop worst case but no chance of negotiating a different type of trade deal over next 2-3 years) or Brexit is cancelled altogether are both possible/more likely. Would you still vote against her deal and why ?
Remainers - many are pushing for a permanent customs union/closer ties with EU. Would you be happy to risk a No deal and vote against Mays deal when the backstop pretty much provides this anyway and the customs union may well be the end alternative outcome to the backstop in 2-3 years if Irish border situation hasn’t been resolved ?
I ask this as I am genuinely interested in the answers of both sides
Post-truth politics is alive and well in Brexit Britain - CNN
Two questions about the May deal for both sides.
Brexiteers - If the vote doesn’t go through it appears that a softer brexit (permanent customs union - same as backstop worst case but no chance of negotiating a different type of trade deal over next 2-3 years) or Brexit is cancelled altogether are both possible/more likely. Would you still vote against her deal and why ?
Remainers - many are pushing for a permanent customs union/closer ties with EU. Would you be happy to risk a No deal and vote against Mays deal when the backstop pretty much provides this anyway and the customs union may well be the end alternative outcome to the backstop in 2-3 years if Irish border situation hasn’t been resolved ?
I ask this as I am genuinely interested in the answers of both sides
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I don’t think a no deal would actually happen, I think it’d be stopped by parliament
That’s fair enough as an answer mate....I guess that’s what a lot of Remain MPs think as well.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I think it’s probably what a lot pro-Brexit MPs think as well. The hard Brexit minority on the other hand will be hoping it happens.
I still maintain that the EEA will be the eventual outcome.
So in that case you would expect the pro brexit to vote for the deal.
I suppose where I was trying to get to with the questions is whether both sides really think the gamble of voting down Mays deal is worth it ie the risks for Brexiteers ending up with a softer brexit or no brexit at all and Remainers ending up with a No Deal. Rather than Mays deal.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Read any news outlet. They all say the same. Even the pro EU outlets. Yet you say it is great what he has done. It says it all to me. You don't care what happens as long as you get what you want.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Where have I said he is great?
I’ve already said that I’d be happy to leave for the EEA as a compromise, so you’re wide or the mark, yet again.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You may have noticed that I keep saying that I think we will stay in the EU in some way. We don't need another referendum for it to happen.
But what is needed is discussion of all matters. The worse thing that could happen is it being forced through by any means. This includes it being forced through by parliament. We could also do without rules being broke for it to happen. It will do nothing but piss people off even more.
Look at what is happening in France. And they voted for it. They had the choice between racists or Macron. They chose Macron. He said what he would do. Now reality has hit home so has the unrest.
The EU looks to be going into recession. Germany is in recession if you go by the standards to measure the data. If it continues it will hurt France and Italy. If we leave it could be catastrophic for us as well as the EU. Add this to what could be the start of a world recession.
For this reason the EU should be willing to talk. They have already offered more than they made out they would once we leave the EU. So it could be leave but have a deal of our own. We would still pay to be a part of the EU. The rest would have to be decided.
But as I said we need the idiots to keep out of it. All they will do is cause more trouble as we go along. Bercow needs to go or keep to what he should do. That is keeping order in the house. It is keeping the debate on track. The MP's need to grow up. They have a job to do that they get paid very well for. Serving the public and doi9what is best for us. Behaving like children needs to stop. Those causing more problems unnecessarily need to be silenced. It is a time for the parties to join together instead of point scoring.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Wide off the mark? You have praised Bercow for what he has done. Innocent until proven guilty? Anyone with a braincell that works knows the truth. You just want as much trouble as possible caused so you get what you want. You don't even seem to care what happens afterwards.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What’s going to happen afterwards oh wise one?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
You’re off your head.
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised he's lasted this long without going insane dealing with you 3 numpty's......
Astute
Well-Known Member
Am I bollocks.
You think Bercow did a good thing. Correct?
You say innocent until proven guilty although his position has kept him safe so far. Correct?
I'm off my head because I won't lie or make stuff up?
You need a reality check. Having your puppy dogs agreeing with you all the time doesn't mean that you are right. Especially as one of them was a UKIP voting racist comment making idiot until he worked out that Brexit wasn't really good for him.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I just said that I’d be happy to go with the EEA but you’ve just ignored that.
Only the other week you made up some elaborate story about people on this thread attacking you for not liking Blair
Plenty of people across the country believe in innocent until proven guilty, by the way. You seem to have fallen for the likes of the Mail and the Express and their demonisation of him. I don’t seem to remember you ever getting so outraged about other scandals and ministers being given positions after scandals, weird that.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
He’s supposed to be firmly remain these days ha ha ha
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
Hmmm Now you know that's not true..
Astute
Well-Known Member
Saying that you would be happy to go with EEA makes everything else OK?
Of course you would be happy with EEA rules. It would be just like being in the EU. Same rules.
Are you saying that nobody has said anything about me making comments seen against Labour?
Innocent until proven guilty? So you think he is innocent? All these allegations that have been going on for years don't mean anything? Someone made an allegation and got paid off. This is true and in the public domain.
Bercow is 3rd in command. He holds a lit of power. If anything happened to May and her deputy he would become PM. He abuses his power. You don't care who abuses their power as long as they speak out in favour of remain. Then you pretend not to get the point I am making.
Mail and Express? You make me laugh. Yesterday a link was put up from one of them rags. But it was from a remain whatever happens just like yourself. You said nothing. My links came from those supporting remain. Shows you don't care what false information you give.
So what news outlets are allowed? Shall we see what they say?
Is this good enough? The BBC is well known for bias towards remaining when it is supposed to be unbiased.
Bercow 'should quit' after bullying report
I suppose you will.forget how to read or not give a truthful reply to this if you give a reply at all.
Astute
Well-Known Member
No.i am not firmly remain. Just like I am not firmly leave. You know this.
How about your comment from the Bercow link from the BBC link?
Will the Guardian do?
John Bercow: further bullying claims emerge against Speaker
How many more would you like? And notice that these were nothing to do with last week.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Apart from the EEA isn’t the same rules as the EU, the country would be outside of the EU, as usual the issues, I suspect, comes down to freedom of movement.
Remain what happens, just like myself? I’ve just said that I’m not remaining whatever ffs.
Personally I’m not comfortable with trial and execution via the press and social media, unlike you it seems.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
That’s true, your Brexit position reminds me of Corbyn’s.
It’s bizarre you become obsessed and outraged with issues while seemingly trying to defend others, such as Seaborne Freight.
Oh yes, and you seemed to want to not make assumptions based upon stories within the press.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
FOM, still paying into pot and other EEA members agreement are main sticking points. I’m assuming Irish border issue is resolved by EEA ?
The reason I asked the question yesterday was that this is possible (in actual fact pretty likely) following the withdrawal agreement. Yet people still think by voting down Mays deal it’s worth the risk of various other scenarios (regarding brexit and constitutionally) happening
I can understand the ‘No deal’ and ‘Remain’ at all costs individuals voting the deal down. I’m trying to understand why those inbetween would as I don’t quite get it.