The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (31 Viewers)

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

So we have a bully holding the government to account, a hedge fund boss holding the government to account, morons holding the government to account, a communist/socialist/anti Semite/IRA sympathiser holding the government to account and many many more people you probably wouldn’t let babysit your children holding the government to account. When this is the list of rag tag low life’s holding the government to account it really says a lot about just how bad this government is. Not sure what it says about those who defend the government but it can’t be good. The levels of lowness we’re having to lower ourselves in the name of Brexit is jaw dropping.

This is nothing but a rant . Are you blaming the majority of those who voted in the referendum for this ? Perhaps you should grow up and deal with it.

 

---

[skybluetony176]

FOM, still paying into pot and other EEA members agreement are main sticking points. I’m assuming Irish border issue is resolved by EEA ?

The reason I asked the question yesterday was that this is possible (in actual fact pretty likely) following the withdrawal agreement. Yet people still think by voting down Mays deal it’s worth the risk of various other scenarios (regarding brexit and constitutionally) happening

I can understand the ‘No deal’ and ‘Remain’ at all costs individuals voting the deal down. I’m trying to understand why those inbetween would as I don’t quite get it.

Norway has control of its waters. It has chosen to trade off some access to the EU for other benefits though. Biggest problem for the U.K. fishing industry is the largest part of that industry, processing. Norway’s fish processing industry doesn’t have access to the EU. The double whammy for the U.K. fish processing industry is that one of the reasons it’s so successful (aside from its access to the EU) is that it processes the majority of fish caught by the Norwegian fleet as we have full access to the EU.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is nothing but a rant . Are you blaming the majority of those who voted in the referendum for this ? Perhaps you should grow up and deal with it.

No. I was agreeing with all the people who are falling over themselves to discredit anyone who holds the government to account on brexit that they are terrible people. Yet they still have the decency to assure that Parliament is sovereign and the government don’t shortcut Brexit. Regardless of what you voted I would have thought everyone would appreciate that. That’s called growing up and dealing with it.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Norway has control of its waters. It has chosen to trade off some access to the EU for other benefits though. Biggest problem for the U.K. fishing industry is the largest part of that industry, processing. Norway’s fish processing industry doesn’t have access to the EU. The double whammy for the U.K. fish processing industry is that one of the reasons it’s so successful (aside from its access to the EU) is that it processes the majority of fish caught by the Norwegian fleet as we have full access to the EU.

Don’t disagree Tony (as I said the EEA solution or something similar is the likely outcome post withdrawal agreement - probably without FOM) but my question is still the same ? ie why won’t those inbetween vote for the withdrawal agreement ?

Ps when I say inbetween I mean those willing to accept a compromise ie not your No deal or Remain on all accounts people

 

[Astute]

Apart from the EEA isn’t the same rules as the EU, the country would be outside of the EU, as usual the issues, I suspect, comes down to freedom of movement.

Remain what happens, just like myself? I’ve just said that I’m not remaining whatever ffs.

Personally I’m not comfortable with trial and execution via the press and social media, unlike you it seems.

Shall we check your previous posts and see what you think of trial and execution of those in favour of Brexit? Of course not.

EEA not the same rules other than freedom of movement? Why do you either act clueless or twist the truth when it suits?

The Basic Features of the EEA Agreement | European Free Trade Association

What is included in the EEA Agreement? The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation in all policy areas of the Single Market. This covers the four freedoms, i.e. the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital, as well as competition and state aid rules, but also the following horizontal policies: consumer protection, company law, environment, social policy, statistics. In addition, the EEA Agreement provides for cooperation in several flanking policies such as research and technological development, education, training and youth, employment, tourism, culture, civil protection, enterprise, entrepreneurship and small and medium-sized enterprises. The EEA Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Single Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA. Through Article 6 of the EEA Agreement, the case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union is also of relevance to the EEA Agreement, as the provisions of the EEA Agreement shall be interpreted in conformity with the relevant rulings of the Court given prior to the date of signature (i.e. 2 May 1992).

 

[Astute]

That’s true, your Brexit position reminds me of Corbyn’s.

It’s bizarre you become obsessed and outraged with issues while seemingly trying to defend others, such as Seaborne Freight.

Oh yes, and you seemed to want to not make assumptions based upon stories within the press.

Here come the lies again.

Do we need to go back to where it was agreed that I didn't defend Seabourne in any way but I called you out for saying or agreeing that MP's were on the take with it starting up although there wasn't any evidence at all. Then you have the cheek to say about trial and prosecution by press and social media and you didn't even have that.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

No. I was agreeing with all the people who are falling over themselves to discredit anyone who holds the government to account on brexit that they are terrible people. Yet they still have the decency to assure that Parliament is sovereign and the government don’t shortcut Brexit. Regardless of what you voted I would have thought everyone would appreciate that. That’s called growing up and dealing with it.

Then you should practise what you preach.

 

[Sick Boy]

Here come the lies again.

Do we need to go back to where it was agreed that I didn't defend Seabourne in any way but I called you out for saying or agreeing that MP's were on the take with it starting up although there wasn't any evidence at all. Then you have the cheek to say about trial and prosecution by press and social media and you didn't even have that.

And you accuse others of twisting the truth, no one agreed that you weren’t defending them. You make it up as you go along.

Not once did I say an MP was on the take, again, you’ve completely made it up.

 

[Sick Boy]

Shall we check your previous posts and see what you think of trial and execution of those in favour of Brexit? Of course not.

EEA not the same rules other than freedom of movement? Why do you either act clueless or twist the truth when it suits?

The Basic Features of the EEA Agreement | European Free Trade Association

What is included in the EEA Agreement? The EEA Agreement provides for the inclusion of EU legislation in all policy areas of the Single Market. This covers the four freedoms, i.e. the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital, as well as competition and state aid rules, but also the following horizontal policies: consumer protection, company law, environment, social policy, statistics. In addition, the EEA Agreement provides for cooperation in several flanking policies such as research and technological development, education, training and youth, employment, tourism, culture, civil protection, enterprise, entrepreneurship and small and medium-sized enterprises. The EEA Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Single Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA. Through Article 6 of the EEA Agreement, the case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union is also of relevance to the EEA Agreement, as the provisions of the EEA Agreement shall be interpreted in conformity with the relevant rulings of the Court given prior to the date of signature (i.e. 2 May 1992).

Trial and execution of those in favour or Brexit? Like who? Liam Fox who was sacked in disgrace?

The EEA would still deliver on the referendum and I believe enable the UK to agree its own trade deals - it was also put forward as an option by leavers pre referendum

 

[Sick Boy]

I also hear one of the blokes who abused Soubry has got arrested. I hope the guy who door stepped Rees-Mogg and abused him in front of his kids, with police nowhere near, got the same

Ps I’m not great fan of either of those politicians by the way

Unsurprisingly I’m not a fan of Rees Mogg, but he handled the situation superbly and with dignity. No one should be abused in front of their kids and then involving them in the argument

 

[Astute]

I also hear one of the blokes who abused Soubry has got arrested. I hope the guy who door stepped Rees-Mogg and abused him in front of his kids, with police nowhere near, got the same

Ps I’m not great fan of either of those politicians by the way

The problem is not a lot is fair in this situation. If you help push for Brexit to stop you can throw insults about but have a right not to be insulted. If you don't want it to stop you get the opposite. The whole thing is a joke. Equality gone out the window.

 

[Astute]

Trial and execution of those in favour or Brexit? Like who? Liam Fox who was sacked in disgrace?

The EEA would still deliver on the referendum and I believe enable the UK to agree its own trade deals - it was also put forward as an option by leavers pre referendum

And where have I disagreed on this? But you come straight out with a remark about me that it is all about freedom of movement. You constantly try to make out I am against it. But as you know the opposite is the truth. This is how pathetic your points have become.

 

[Astute]

Unsurprisingly I’m not a fan of Rees Mogg, but he handled the situation superbly and with dignity. No one should be abused in front of their kids and then involving them in the argument

So is it OK to give abuse to others or not?

 

[Grappa]

Don’t disagree Tony (as I said the EEA solution or something similar is the likely outcome post withdrawal agreement - probably without FOM) but my question is still the same ? ie why won’t those inbetween vote for the withdrawal agreement ?

Ps when I say inbetween I mean those willing to accept a compromise ie not your No deal or Remain on all accounts people

EEA would still require a backstop and freedom of movement.

 

[Astute]

And you accuse others of twisting the truth, no one agreed that you weren’t defending them. You make it up as you go along.

Not once did I say an MP was on the take, again, you’ve completely made it up.

So there was never any agreement from you when it was said by others? Would you like to state this as a fact right now? Or do you just 'like' posts for fun, because of the person who has made the statement or to try and make a point?

 

[Astute]

And you accuse others of twisting the truth, no one agreed that you weren’t defending them. You make it up as you go along.

Not once did I say an MP was on the take, again, you’ve completely made it up.

If I go back and find it will you agree that you are lying yet again? Because we have already been through this a few times. And you don't miss a post that has a pop at me.

 

[Grendel]

Trial and execution of those in favour or Brexit? Like who? Liam Fox who was sacked in disgrace?

The EEA would still deliver on the referendum and I believe enable the UK to agree its own trade deals - it was also put forward as an option by leavers pre referendum

Was Liam Fox found guilty of a criminal offence?

 

[CCFCSteve]

EEA would still require a backstop and freedom of movement.

It would require FOM although if EEA was agreed then I’m guessing the backstop wouldn’t be necessary as it (should) allow the soft border to remain

Again, as I’ve said numerous times, if people want this, why would they risk voting down the withdrawal agreement as this might well end up being the permanent position ?

Doesn’t make sense. Basically many in Parliament (and the public) aren’t looking at the bigger picture, they are just blindly following the ‘vote against’ argument without accepting or recognising the agreement is No 1 temporary and No 2 a compromise. As I’ve said before I understand the ‘No Deal or Remain at any costs’ MPs stance, they will vote down any compromise, the rest should be voting in favour.

Ps I’d love to know how many of the public in the recent polls asked about the withdrawal agreement, know any detail about the agreement ?! I bet a fair proportion do think it’s the final agreement the way the MPs are banging on about the negatives

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It would require FOM although if EEA was agreed then I’m guessing the backstop wouldn’t be necessary as it (should) allow the soft border to remain

Again, as I’ve said numerous times, if people want this, why would they risk voting down the withdrawal agreement as this might well end up being the permanent position ?

Doesn’t make sense. Basically many in Parliament (and the public) aren’t looking at the bigger picture, they are just blindly following the ‘vote against’ argument without accepting or recognising the agreement is No 1 temporary and No 2 a compromise. As I’ve said before I understand the ‘No Deal or Remain at any costs’ MPs stance, they will vote down any compromise, the rest should be voting in favour.

Ps I’d love to know how many of the public in the recent polls asked about the withdrawal agreement, know any detail about the agreement ?! I bet a fair proportion do think it’s the final agreement the way the MPs are banging on about the negatives

Same as with the refurrendum then. Far too complex for the man or woman on the street

 

[Sick Boy]

Just heard on the news here that Brexit could end up being delayed until at least the summer, maybe Autumn

 

[clint van damme]

Just heard on the news here that Brexit could end up being delayed until at least the summer, maybe Autumn

think they want to wait until we've sorted out where we're playing next season mate.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Just heard on the news here that Brexit could end up being delayed until at least the summer, maybe Autumn

Not shooting the messenger but what the fuck is the point of delaying this mess any further (without a specific reason to do so). I didn’t think I’d ever hear myself say this (as I don’t agree with it) but if the deal gets voted down and the EU aren’t giving any more concessions, then it really might have to be a second referendum as MPs will potentially stop parliament from operating. Either with an option of Mays deal or No deal brexit (I know that will upset many on here) or alternatively it should be a two tier referendum Remain or Leave and if Leave wins (again) then the option between Mays deal and No deal brexit.

If the inept politicians can’t do their jobs then it looks like the people might have to. I hope some of them get voted out next time of asking....many are a disgrace !

 

[Sick Boy]

Not shooting the messenger but what the fuck is the point of delaying this mess any further (without a specific reason to do so). I didn’t think I’d ever hear myself say this (as I don’t agree with it) but if the deal gets voted down and the EU aren’t giving any more concessions, then it really might have to be a second referendum as MPs will potentially stop parliament from operating. Either with an option of Mays deal or No deal brexit (I know that will upset many on here) or alternatively it should be a two tier referendum Remain or Leave and if Leave wins (again) then the option between Mays deal and No deal brexit.

If the inept politicians can’t do their jobs then it looks like the people might have to. I hope some of them get voted out next time of asking....many are a disgrace !

No idea, I didn’t vote for them

 

[CCFCSteve]

No idea, I didn’t vote for them

Wise move !

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not shooting the messenger but what the fuck is the point of delaying this mess any further (without a specific reason to do so). I didn’t think I’d ever hear myself say this (as I don’t agree with it) but if the deal gets voted down and the EU aren’t giving any more concessions, then it really might have to be a second referendum as MPs will potentially stop parliament from operating. Either with an option of Mays deal or No deal brexit (I know that will upset many on here) or alternatively it should be a two tier referendum Remain or Leave and if Leave wins (again) then the option between Mays deal and No deal brexit.

If the inept politicians can’t do their jobs then it looks like the people might have to. I hope some of them get voted out next time of asking....many are a disgrace !

If there was ever to be another referendum in the next 20 years then remain should not be an option on the ballot paper.

 

[skybluetony176]

May: No Brexit more likely than no deal

 

[Astute]

Not shooting the messenger but what the fuck is the point of delaying this mess any further (without a specific reason to do so). I didn’t think I’d ever hear myself say this (as I don’t agree with it) but if the deal gets voted down and the EU aren’t giving any more concessions, then it really might have to be a second referendum as MPs will potentially stop parliament from operating. Either with an option of Mays deal or No deal brexit (I know that will upset many on here) or alternatively it should be a two tier referendum Remain or Leave and if Leave wins (again) then the option between Mays deal and No deal brexit.

If the inept politicians can’t do their jobs then it looks like the people might have to. I hope some of them get voted out next time of asking....many are a disgrace !

It has always been about delaying tactics.

Inept politicians? I said about 2 years ago and several times since that it could all be about delaying tactics. It has been made difficult from the start. We have had over 2 years to solve the problem of Ireland and to work out how much money we owe. But we were not allowed to talk about the important things like trade deals or what would happen to the citizens who live in a different country than their passport says.

We then have a pro EU PM supposedly taking us out of the EU. We have the opposition leader who has always wanted out of the EU arguing that we should stay in the EU. But strangely enough you can't get him to say what he wants personally. We have a speaker of the house who has one job.....keep order and show no bias at all. The opposite has been happening.

Then you have the BBC which is publicly financed. It should be unbiased. But even those who want and need remain admit it is very biased on behalf of remain.

Back to the negotiations between Mayhem and the EU. The EU says nothing more can be given. Mayhem says more has been given. EU says just rewarded. EU says nothing more can be given. Mayhem says........ and so on. EU says we can change our mind at any time. We are told by the courts we can revoke article 50 without permission from the EU.

Then you have project fear. Last year the EU gave out the numbers for how well countries are doing financially. The UK was bottom. And the UK would do worse after we leave. This was after record numbers for the UK. Yet those countries near the top of the EU list are actually in the bottom half and the UK has continued with record numbers. The normally updated list hasn't been updated since.

Delaying this mess? I have called all the way through that I see us remaining in the EU in some way. But it is impossible to call how as it is down to public perception. It was a massive fuck up by Cameron that put us in this situation. But England had quite a large majority for leave. It was never going to be easy to stick the middle finger up to the voters of England. Look at what is happening in France. And they voted for it to happen although they had the choice between a racist government or Macron.

So we have been primed for remaining. Project fear has been going on for 2 and a half years. Yet still there is no large majority for remain. So.i see that it will continue to be held up for longer until the public perception changes more. The MP's have shown from the start that they don't want Brexit to happen. But it could easily cause anarchy if reversed too early.

So hold on tight. More twists and turns to happen. May to see the stopping of Brexit to the end then retire from politics. The Tories to then elect someone to take them forward. Corbyn then to say things against the EU again. And the majority of the voters to be happy that it wasn't Armageddon like we were told would happen.

And I will still be able to spend my retirement in the EU :smuggrin:

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

3 things for me from today

How can Liam fox say if we leave when no deal we will recover from the economic hit but if we remain it will be a decision that the country won’t recover from. Mmmmmmmm

Also how is it wrong for our elected politicians to get their heads together to try and work out an agreeement as to how we withdraw if the government can’t come up with something that can be agreed

Finally, why is it May’s deal now? Thought the government had a brexit Secretary

Answers to help me would be good

 

[Astute]

3 things for me from today

How can Liam fox say if we leave when no deal we will recover from the economic hit but if we remain it will be a decision that the country won’t recover from. Mmmmmmmm

Also how is it wrong for our elected politicians to get their heads together to try and work out an agreeement as to how we withdraw if the government can’t come up with something that can be agreed

Finally, why is it May’s deal now? Thought the government had a brexit Secretary

Answers to help me would be good

He is a politician. If his lips move there is a good chance lies are coming out of his mouth.

But if we do actually end up leaving....and I am now really doubting that we will ...... it will depend how we leave. We could be stranded in the EU without a say in matters and not able to make trade deals elsewhere. That could be the worse end to this shitstorm. On top of this the EU isn't looking in good shape at all. Nobody knows how this will go.

The elected politicians are not getting their heads together to work out how we leave. They are putting their heads together to work out how they can keep us in the EU. The most vocal are going against their own electorate. If there was another GE my money would be on whoever has the biggest odds. I would even consider putting money on a new party that was for Brexit to happen.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

He is a politician. If his lips move there is a good chance lies are coming out of his mouth.

But if we do actually end up leaving....and I am now really doubting that we will ...... it will depend how we leave. We could be stranded in the EU without a say in matters and not able to make trade deals elsewhere. That could be the worse end to this shitstorm. On top of this the EU isn't looking in good shape at all. Nobody knows how this will go.

The elected politicians are not getting their heads together to work out how we leave. They are putting their heads together to work out how they can keep us in the EU. The most vocal are going against their own electorate. If there was another GE my money would be on whoever has the biggest odds. I would even consider putting money on a new party that was for Brexit to happen.

Can’t you imagine a Corbyn prime minister and rhees mogg as his brexit Secretary!! Lol

I think that’s cynical of the politicians and certainly the Tory one wants to leave. Can’t remember who it was on the radio this morning

 

[martcov]

If there was ever to be another referendum in the next 20 years then remain should not be an option on the ballot paper.

Jawohl mein Führer.

 

[martcov]

It has always been about delaying tactics.

Inept politicians? I said about 2 years ago and several times since that it could all be about delaying tactics. It has been made difficult from the start. We have had over 2 years to solve the problem of Ireland and to work out how much money we owe. But we were not allowed to talk about the important things like trade deals or what would happen to the citizens who live in a different country than their passport says.

We then have a pro EU PM supposedly taking us out of the EU. We have the opposition leader who has always wanted out of the EU arguing that we should stay in the EU. But strangely enough you can't get him to say what he wants personally. We have a speaker of the house who has one job.....keep order and show no bias at all. The opposite has been happening.

Then you have the BBC which is publicly financed. It should be unbiased. But even those who want and need remain admit it is very biased on behalf of remain.

Back to the negotiations between Mayhem and the EU. The EU says nothing more can be given. Mayhem says more has been given. EU says just rewarded. EU says nothing more can be given. Mayhem says........ and so on. EU says we can change our mind at any time. We are told by the courts we can revoke article 50 without permission from the EU.

Then you have project fear. Last year the EU gave out the numbers for how well countries are doing financially. The UK was bottom. And the UK would do worse after we leave. This was after record numbers for the UK. Yet those countries near the top of the EU list are actually in the bottom half and the UK has continued with record numbers. The normally updated list hasn't been updated since.

Delaying this mess? I have called all the way through that I see us remaining in the EU in some way. But it is impossible to call how as it is down to public perception. It was a massive fuck up by Cameron that put us in this situation. But England had quite a large majority for leave. It was never going to be easy to stick the middle finger up to the voters of England. Look at what is happening in France. And they voted for it to happen although they had the choice between a racist government or Macron.

So we have been primed for remaining. Project fear has been going on for 2 and a half years. Yet still there is no large majority for remain. So.i see that it will continue to be held up for longer until the public perception changes more. The MP's have shown from the start that they don't want Brexit to happen. But it could easily cause anarchy if reversed too early.

So hold on tight. More twists and turns to happen. May to see the stopping of Brexit to the end then retire from politics. The Tories to then elect someone to take them forward. Corbyn then to say things against the EU again. And the majority of the voters to be happy that it wasn't Armageddon like we were told would happen.

And I will still be able to spend my retirement in the EU :smuggrin:

I am not going to go through all that, but the people wanting a second referendum certainly think that the BBC is bias. Always leavers talking crap and people like Andrew Neill. Farage and co given too much time on question Time and a lack of pro EU MEPs on panels.

 

[Grendel]

I am not going to go through all that, but the people wanting a second referendum certainly think that the BBC is bias. Always leavers talking crap and people like Andrew Neill. Farage and co given too much time on question Time and a lack of pro EU MEPs on panels.

Andrew Neil is never on question time

 

[skybluetony176]

Andrew Neil is never on question time

There’s a full stop after Neil.

 

[skybluetony176]

I am not going to go through all that, but the people wanting a second referendum certainly think that the BBC is bias. Always leavers talking crap and people like Andrew Neill. Farage and co given too much time on question Time and a lack of pro EU MEPs on panels.

David Dimbleby made the very same point on his final question time. David Davis tried to accuse question time of being biased to remain. Truth was it was one of the few times that the panel majority was remain, as David Dimbleby quickly pointed out to him with some facts and figures. He made Davis look a right c**t. That’s not fair actually. Davis made himself look a right c**t David Dimbleby just made sure that the audience knew.