The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (136 Viewers)

[martcov]

Andrew Neil is never on question time

No. I never said he was.

 

---

[martcov]

There’s a full stop after Neil.

You have to read the post t see that.

 

[Grendel]

Talking about Andrew Neill did anyone else see that pathetic twerp Owen Jones on there last week.

What a self righteous tosser that bloke is

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Talking about Andrew Neill did anyone else see that pathetic twerp Owen Jones on there last week.

What a self righteous tosser that bloke is

Irony

 

[Sick Boy]

David Dimbleby made the very same point on his final question time. David Davis tried to accuse question time of being biased to remain. Truth was it was one of the few times that the panel majority was remain, as David Dimbleby quickly pointed out to him with some facts and figures. He made Davis look a right c**t. That’s not fair actually. Davis made himself look a right c**t David Dimbleby just made sure that the audience knew.

Haha that’s not exactly difficult.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Just heard German output is down for the second consecutive quarter also the irish too
EU NO THANKS!!!
Get out and gid rid of this failing group!!!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is this prick for real?

Tory MP Boris Johnson says the big question is if Britain really going to leave.

"Are we going to embrace that future or are we going to be intimidated?" he says.

Mr Johnson says if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal "we will be blatantly negating the potential benefits of Brexit".

The only certainty is that the EU will keep us locked in the backstop until we comply with their wishes and "the whole debilitating wrangle will go on for years", he notes.

Mr Johnson adds that a second referendum is not the way forwards, and more rules would have to be taken from Brussels with a Norway model agreement.

"The public would accuse us in this place of deliberately frustating their wishes if Article 50 is extended," he says. "We cannot treat the public like idiots... they will see this stuff for what it is."

Mr Johnson says he hopes Theresa May comes back with a proposal similar to her principles outlined at Lancaster House, and holding back at least half of the £39bn 'divorce bill' until a free trade agreement has been agreed.

"We can flunk it, we can vote for this deal, and we would thereby confirm the worst suspicions of the British public about the cynicism of the elite, or we can get it right," he adds.

He treats everyone likes idiots

 

[Sick Boy]

Is this prick for real?

Tory MP Boris Johnson says the big question is if Britain really going to leave.

"Are we going to embrace that future or are we going to be intimidated?" he says.

Mr Johnson says if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal "we will be blatantly negating the potential benefits of Brexit".

The only certainty is that the EU will keep us locked in the backstop until we comply with their wishes and "the whole debilitating wrangle will go on for years", he notes.

Mr Johnson adds that a second referendum is not the way forwards, and more rules would have to be taken from Brussels with a Norway model agreement.

"The public would accuse us in this place of deliberately frustating their wishes if Article 50 is extended," he says. "We cannot treat the public like idiots... they will see this stuff for what it is."

Mr Johnson says he hopes Theresa May comes back with a proposal similar to her principles outlined at Lancaster House, and holding back at least half of the £39bn 'divorce bill' until a free trade agreement has been agreed.

"We can flunk it, we can vote for this deal, and we would thereby confirm the worst suspicions of the British public about the cynicism of the elite, or we can get it right," he adds.

He treats everyone likes idiots

If he becomes PM it’d be a dark day for the country. How’s his we buy French cheese and Italian wine crap coming along?

 

[skybluetony176]

If he becomes PM it’d be a dark day for the country. How’s his we buy French cheese and Italian wine crap coming along?

As expected.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Is this prick for real?

Tory MP Boris Johnson says the big question is if Britain really going to leave.

"Are we going to embrace that future or are we going to be intimidated?" he says.

Mr Johnson says if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal "we will be blatantly negating the potential benefits of Brexit".

The only certainty is that the EU will keep us locked in the backstop until we comply with their wishes and "the whole debilitating wrangle will go on for years", he notes.

Mr Johnson adds that a second referendum is not the way forwards, and more rules would have to be taken from Brussels with a Norway model agreement.

"The public would accuse us in this place of deliberately frustating their wishes if Article 50 is extended," he says. "We cannot treat the public like idiots... they will see this stuff for what it is."

Mr Johnson says he hopes Theresa May comes back with a proposal similar to her principles outlined at Lancaster House, and holding back at least half of the £39bn 'divorce bill' until a free trade agreement has been agreed.

"We can flunk it, we can vote for this deal, and we would thereby confirm the worst suspicions of the British public about the cynicism of the elite, or we can get it right," he adds.

He treats everyone likes idiots

Just out of interest, do you think what he's saying is inacurrate, or is it just that you don't like what he's saying?

Not trying to be viciscious, just genuinely interested.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just out of interest, do you think what he's saying is inacurrate, or is it just that you don't like what he's saying?

Not trying to be viciscious, just genuinely interested.

Where has he been? He won the vote so why hasn’t he been the one doing the negotiations? I’ll tell you why he’s a coward.

Potential benefits of brexit??? Those being what? He’s the only one who thinks they exist before a couple of generations. Remember he will be one of the ones in charge and how does that go based on his performance as foreign secretary

I think the public would be chuffed to see someone with a plan rather than the ones on the side shouting how rubbish everything is but too scared to get their hands dirty or suggest an alternative

And he ends with the ultimate irony. There are no better examples of the ruling elite than Boris Johnson and rhees mogg. They don’t give a shit about the average man in the street so long as they and their mates can make a few extra million s and keep the masses at bay.

Not being vicious or anything

You?

 

[Astute]

Is this prick for real?

Tory MP Boris Johnson says the big question is if Britain really going to leave.

"Are we going to embrace that future or are we going to be intimidated?" he says.

Mr Johnson says if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal "we will be blatantly negating the potential benefits of Brexit".

The only certainty is that the EU will keep us locked in the backstop until we comply with their wishes and "the whole debilitating wrangle will go on for years", he notes.

Mr Johnson adds that a second referendum is not the way forwards, and more rules would have to be taken from Brussels with a Norway model agreement.

"The public would accuse us in this place of deliberately frustating their wishes if Article 50 is extended," he says. "We cannot treat the public like idiots... they will see this stuff for what it is."

Mr Johnson says he hopes Theresa May comes back with a proposal similar to her principles outlined at Lancaster House, and holding back at least half of the £39bn 'divorce bill' until a free trade agreement has been agreed.

"We can flunk it, we can vote for this deal, and we would thereby confirm the worst suspicions of the British public about the cynicism of the elite, or we can get it right," he adds.

He treats everyone likes idiots

But the basics of what he is saying is correct.

The Tories.are.for the rich and better off. But others vote for them because of promises made. Then they don't keep to their promises.

Tony Bliar was voted for because of what he promised and he was Labour leader. He left voters pissed off because they were the Tories in disguise.

These are votes that can be changed a few years later. But people still demonstrated.

Now consider it to be a one off vote that the referendum was. In or out. But the majority of MP's have always been against it. They are put in place by voters to do what the public votes for. We don't elect people so they can carry on with their own agenda. But that is what is happening.

Do you really think that those who voted leave will be happy if we end up remaining because that is what the MP's decided the public was wrong after giving the public the choice? That is treating people like idiots. That is why another referendum would get messy.

 

[martcov]

Then you have the cheek to say about trial and prosecution by press and social media

Weren’t you just on about Bercow and agreeing with the press and social media? He claims he will continue to stick up for the House of Commons against the government. He was elected to do this by parliament. You claim that he was elected to be neutral. He was elected to keep parliament to the rules of parliament. That includes standing up to a desperate Tory government and not letting them bully the rest of parliament. The cabinet members and pm were chosen by the Tories, not by parliament. The government have already been in trouble for contempt of parliament. Now the Brexit press are jumping up and down about a car sticker and him shouting at his staff. So what in this case? Only question should be if he is holding the government to the rules.

 

[martcov]

But the basics of what he is saying is correct.

The Tories.are.for the rich and better off. But others vote for them because of promises made. Then they don't keep to their promises.

Tony Bliar was voted for because of what he promised and he was Labour leader. He left voters pissed off because they were the Tories in disguise.

These are votes that can be changed a few years later. But people still demonstrated.

Now consider it to be a one off vote that the referendum was. In or out. But the majority of MP's have always been against it. They are put in place by voters to do what the public votes for. We don't elect people so they can carry on with their own agenda. But that is what is happening.

Do you really think that those who voted leave will be happy if we end up remaining because that is what the MP's decided the public was wrong after giving the public the choice? That is treating people like idiots. That is why another referendum would get messy.

If we end up remaining, many leave voters will be unhappy. It will be decided by a second referendum which will be better regulated than the first as we now know the scams that were made to cheat. Criminal investigations are continuing. If a majority vote to remain, the unhappy leavers will be told, you lost get over it. A potential disaster will have been avoided and the new majority will not be unhappy.

All people act in a way they think is right, regardless if you approve of that or not. How to you expect to replace MPs who follow an agenda which doesn’t agree with yours? Dictatorship?

 

[Astute]

Weren’t you just on about Bercow and agreeing with the press and social media? He claims he will continue to stick up for the House of Commons against the government. He was elected to do this by parliament. You claim that he was elected to be neutral. He was elected to keep parliament to the rules of parliament. That includes standing up to a desperate Tory government and not letting them bully the rest of parliament. The cabinet members and pm were chosen by the Tories, not by parliament. The government have already been in trouble for contempt of parliament. Now the Brexit press are jumping up and down about a car sticker and him shouting at his staff. So what in this case? Only question should be if he is holding the government to the rules.

Is it?

So it is OK for someone to break rules to make sure someone else is keeping to the rules?

Of course it is OK. He is a remainer so in your eyes he can do as he wants. But would you be happy if he was a leaver and did the same?

 

[Astute]

If we end up remaining, many leave voters will be unhappy. It will be decided by a second referendum which will be better regulated than the first as we now know the scams that were made to cheat. Criminal investigations are continuing. If a majority vote to remain, the unhappy leavers will be told, you lost get over it. A potential disaster will have been avoided and the new majority will not be unhappy.

All people act in a way they think is right, regardless if you approve of that or not. How to you expect to replace MPs who follow an agenda which doesn’t agree with yours? Dictatorship?

You are either bloody insane or you don't care what you put on here.

So we have another referendum. Remain wins. Leavers get told you lost so get over it.

What about the referendum we already had? Shouldn't we just say to remainers you lost get over it?

Dictatorship? Would you like to explain what that is? Let's look at the two ways and work out which is closer to dictatorship.

People vote for something. The will of the people is carried out.

People vote for something. Those in charge don't carry out the will of the people.

So yes Mart. You was saying about dictatorship.

Agenda? You are the one with an agenda. Look at the crap you have come out with here alone. I say it as it is. You say it as you want it and everything else is wrong. And now people wanting what they voted for is dictatorship

 

[Sick Boy]

But the basics of what he is saying is correct.

The Tories.are.for the rich and better off. But others vote for them because of promises made. Then they don't keep to their promises.

Tony Bliar was voted for because of what he promised and he was Labour leader. He left voters pissed off because they were the Tories in disguise.

These are votes that can be changed a few years later. But people still demonstrated.

Now consider it to be a one off vote that the referendum was. In or out. But the majority of MP's have always been against it. They are put in place by voters to do what the public votes for. We don't elect people so they can carry on with their own agenda. But that is what is happening.

Do you really think that those who voted leave will be happy if we end up remaining because that is what the MP's decided the public was wrong after giving the public the choice? That is treating people like idiots. That is why another referendum would get messy.

So parliament shouldn’t be sovereign now?

 

[martcov]

You are either bloody insane or you don't care what you put on here.

So we have another referendum. Remain wins. Leavers get told you lost so get over it.

What about the referendum we already had? Shouldn't we just say to remainers you lost get over it?

Dictatorship? Would you like to explain what that is? Let's look at the two ways and work out which is closer to dictatorship.

People vote for something. The will of the people is carried out.

People vote for something. Those in charge don't carry out the will of the people.

So yes Mart. You was saying about dictatorship.

Agenda? You are the one with an agenda. Look at the crap you have come out with here alone. I say it as it is. You say it as you want it and everything else is wrong. And now people wanting what they voted for is dictatorship

Remainers have been constantly told you lost get over it.

More people now want a second referendum. You don’t want them to have it. Denying the now majority of people the right to a final say on this disaster which everyone now agrees, ( apart from extremists), will result in at least short term pain, is akin to a dictatorship. Which you are agreeing with. Hypocrisy.

 

[martcov]

Is it?

So it is OK for someone to break rules to make sure someone else is keeping to the rules?

Of course it is OK. He is a remainer so in your eyes he can do as he wants. But would you be happy if he was a leaver and did the same?

The question is whether he broke the rules or not. He says not. On what basis have you decided he has?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But the basics of what he is saying is correct.

The Tories.are.for the rich and better off. But others vote for them because of promises made. Then they don't keep to their promises.

Tony Bliar was voted for because of what he promised and he was Labour leader. He left voters pissed off because they were the Tories in disguise.

These are votes that can be changed a few years later. But people still demonstrated.

Now consider it to be a one off vote that the referendum was. In or out. But the majority of MP's have always been against it. They are put in place by voters to do what the public votes for. We don't elect people so they can carry on with their own agenda. But that is what is happening.

Do you really think that those who voted leave will be happy if we end up remaining because that is what the MP's decided the public was wrong after giving the public the choice? That is treating people like idiots. That is why another referendum would get messy.

We live in a representative democracy. We vote for those people who make decisions on our behalf. That’s how it works

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We live in a representative democracy. We vote for those people who make decisions on our behalf. That’s how it works

Sorry yep any second refurrendum would be a shit storm but we’d get over it. Much like we’d get over a no deal or this withdrawal deal or any other set of challenges we’ve faced as a country. However why put ourselves through it? Mays deal will be voted down and no deal is disastrous. No more or less than a second refurrendum of course. So we are stuck between no deal and remaining. Parliament do need to grab it and find a solution. Or half the country are going to be annoyed and/or much poorer.
One final question would be why would labour want a general election when they will reduce their number of seats??

 

[Grendel]

Weren’t you just on about Bercow and agreeing with the press and social media? He claims he will continue to stick up for the House of Commons against the government. He was elected to do this by parliament. You claim that he was elected to be neutral. He was elected to keep parliament to the rules of parliament. That includes standing up to a desperate Tory government and not letting them bully the rest of parliament. The cabinet members and pm were chosen by the Tories, not by parliament. The government have already been in trouble for contempt of parliament. Now the Brexit press are jumping up and down about a car sticker and him shouting at his staff. So what in this case? Only question should be if he is holding the government to the rules.

You have zero knowledge of the role of the speaker - that is clear

 

[Grendel]

Sorry yep any second refurrendum would be a shit storm but we’d get over it. Much like we’d get over a no deal or this withdrawal deal or any other set of challenges we’ve faced as a country. However why put ourselves through it? Mays deal will be voted down and no deal is disastrous. No more or less than a second refurrendum of course. So we are stuck between no deal and remaining. Parliament do need to grab it and find a solution. Or half the country are going to be annoyed and/or much poorer.
One final question would be why would labour want a general election when they will reduce their number of seats??

What if the second referendum was 50.1% leave and 49.9% remain

Would we get over it then?

 

[martcov]

You have zero knowledge of the role of the speaker - that is clear

I am quoting Bercow‘s argument.

 

[martcov]

What if the second referendum was 50.1% leave and 49.9% remain

Would we get over it then?

About as well as we are getting over a 52:48 vote. Only difference now is that we know what a load of crap leave actually is. Leavers can’t agree with themselves how it should be done.

 

[Grendel]

I am quoting Bercow‘s argument.

The primary role of The speaker is first and foremost to be independent- do you agree with that?

 

[Grendel]

About as well as we are getting over a 52:48 vote. Only difference now is that we know what a load of crap leave actually is. Leavers can’t agree with themselves how it should be done.

Irrelevant to the question I asked

 

[martcov]

The primary role of The speaker is first and foremost to be independent- do you agree with that?

He explained in parliament himself. It’s out there, you can google it or YouTube it. He explained his role. Sitting in a chair and saying nothing in order not to offend anyone is not his primary role. Defence of the House of Commons is not taking sides. It is his primary role. This government has already been held in contempt and didn’t want a meaningful vote and did want to introduce Henry VIII powers. You don’t like your Brexit government being held to the rules.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What if the second referendum was 50.1% leave and 49.9% remain

Would we get over it then?

Yep of course we would but it would be very difficult to move forward with a vote like that. My preference would be parliament negotiating a way forward but if it’s not possible then I can’t see an alternative to asking the public again don’t you? There’s a way of making it more clear than the first one

 

[Grendel]

He explained in parliament himself. It’s out there, you can google it or YouTube it. He explained his role. Sitting in a chair and saying nothing in order not to offend anyone is not his primary role. Defence of the House of Commons is not taking sides. It is his primary role. This government has already been held in contempt and didn’t want a meaningful vote and did want to introduce Henry VIII powers. You don’t like your Brexit government being held to the rules.

So you have no idea of his role and just accept whatever he says

Fair enough

 

[martcov]

Irrelevant to the question I asked

Of course it isn’t. We are in a mess because we didn’t have a legally binding referendum which would have had to have had a qualified majority for such a major change of our unwritten constitution. A second referendum will have to follow the same format as the first. Which whilst not good, is the only way of getting some confirmation of the present Brexit offer. You must agree with that as a democrat, and as you are convinced that leave would romp home anyway.

 

[martcov]

So you have no idea of his role and just accept whatever he says

Fair enough

I suspect that as someone who actually does the job and has been re-elected to that job more than once by parliament, that he may have a better idea of the job than you or I. That is why I quote his Argumentation as opposed to listening to your usual bollocks.

 

[martcov]

So you have no idea of his role and just accept whatever he says

Fair enough

I like his answer:
Bercow: 'I have no intention of taking lectures on doing right by Parliament from people who have been conspicuous in denial of, and sometimes contempt for it...and I will not be pushed around by agents of the executive branch'

 

[Grendel]

I suspect that as someone who actually does the job and has been re-elected to that job more than once by parliament, that he may have a better idea of the job than you or I. That is why I quote his Argumentation as opposed to listening to your usual bollocks.

Do you think other more respected speakers may have an idea of the role as well?

It’s intersting you admit you just nod your head and agree with people without researching it though. I admire your honesty

 

[Nick]

Have all of the people on the news today actually taken a day off work to lurk about in London?