D
Deleted member 5849
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Acting in the national interest, in fact.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (50 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
He’s not playing it brilliantly though. He should be making hay on May wasting 2 years and then making a major boob and wasting another month. Despite wishing to take no deal off the table I am willing to have discussions to see where things are at. I hate that pr is so much a part of this but it really is. Oh well. The saga continues. Social media going mental at May for having a press conference to say nothing at all
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I do agree that she's getting off rather. Two years... and are we really any further forward?
Unless you subscribe to the view that it was always going to be impossible to move forward in those timescales... in which case she was downright stupid for ploughing ahead with no real idea of direction.
Under the initial proposals as to how this was going to be dealt with, May's deal would be what we were leaving with... and sod parliament. It would have followed the result of the referendum, mind you...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
A poll out today shows her rating a massive 16 points ahead of Corbyn and the Tories taking a 5 point lead over labour
Astute
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't take a decade to leave if we wanted it that badly. And for starters we would need those running the country to want to leave.
Project fear from both sides? Would you like to point out where I have said something different? I am not the one who is so biased that I don't care what rubbish I come out with.
The problem is that if I say something you agree with or looks good for remain you never make a comment. As soon as I say something that doesn't look good for remain in any way you are straight on it. The only thing that would make you slightly happier is if every time I said something that doesn't look good for remain I also say something that doesn't look good for leave in the same sentence. Just like where you have commented here.
So let me get this straight, various politicians want to take a No Deal off the table even though this is currently one of the main incentives for the EU to get a (sensible) deal done ?!
Beggars belief !
My understanding is that from a legal stand point this is also currently not possible. However, from just a logical view....if you can’t agree a deal with someone you don’t get a deal done ie No deal !
Ps Sounds like Corbyn might have to decide whether to whip his party for a second referendum next week, in line with party members wishes (now failed with no confidence). Think he might have to
Beggars belief !
My understanding is that from a legal stand point this is also currently not possible. However, from just a logical view....if you can’t agree a deal with someone you don’t get a deal done ie No deal !
Ps Sounds like Corbyn might have to decide whether to whip his party for a second referendum next week, in line with party members wishes (now failed with no confidence). Think he might have to
Astute
Well-Known Member
As everyone knows I have said that Labour needs a strong leader. They should be well ahead of the Tories. This is the best chance Labour has had since John Smith was leader and Bliar had everything prepared for him after he sadly unexpectedly passed away. A proper politician who had proper plans and put them forward very well. But we are stuck with Corbyn and most probably another Tory government.
And yes SB I can't think of anything to even this post out. Labour hasn't had a decent leader since Smith and I can't think of anyone now who would make a decent leader.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
A theory:
Previously we had no-deal, May's deal and no Brexit on the table. If Corbyn (and the SNP) want to remove no-deal it leaves her deal or no Brexit.
Deep down both May and Corbyn know that no Brexit is electoral suicide, she is desperate for him to come out and back it, and likewise the other way. So that really only leaves her deal.
That won't get through as it stands, however if she was prepared to stay in CU it could get Labour support, enough to get it through and negate the rebellion of Tories.
Unfortunately for May she knows staying in the CU will be the line that tears her party in two.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out... but coming out for remain is the thing either of them will want to do.
Previously we had no-deal, May's deal and no Brexit on the table. If Corbyn (and the SNP) want to remove no-deal it leaves her deal or no Brexit.
Deep down both May and Corbyn know that no Brexit is electoral suicide, she is desperate for him to come out and back it, and likewise the other way. So that really only leaves her deal.
That won't get through as it stands, however if she was prepared to stay in CU it could get Labour support, enough to get it through and negate the rebellion of Tories.
Unfortunately for May she knows staying in the CU will be the line that tears her party in two.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out... but coming out for remain is the thing either of them will want to do.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Legal matters don't come into it on here. It is only what some on here want and nothing else should be mentioned.
Everything should be left on the table. Then decide which way we go. No deal isn't good. But neither is going against a public vote. So they should decide what the next step is. And I can't see leaving without a deal is even a possibility now. And like I have been saying party politics should be forgotten about for this. They should all join together and sort this crap out.
Thanks again Cameron.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which is the way I see it. And staying fully in the EU is much better than the EEA.
Otis
Well-Known Member
What does that tell you about the general public then?
She has been a disaster, but they are surely just clinging to the fact she has promised Brexit.
It tells you that for all her mistakes, pathetic negotiations etc, the public still see her as at least trying to deliver on the referendum result.
Whether people on here accept it or not, the politicising of such an important subject will not go down well with a large section of the public/electorate. The withdrawal agreement could have been amended to provide elements that labour would be willing to support...they didn't because Corbyn wanted an election. Fortunately for him the public also has short memories so the polls will probably improve next week !!!
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You failed to mention the other poll yesterday that put Labour ahead by 2 points.
In fact every pollster other than Tory You Gov has Labour level or ahead... makes you wonder about the You Gov agenda.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s an accurate assessment - anyone removing no deal is unfit for office
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Some polls are saying very different things with a few polls having Labour ahead by 1-2%, others having them neck and neck with YouGov having the Tories up by 4%. There's some analysis that suggests Labour would gain around 23 seats from the Conservatives but lose 4 to the SNP in Scotland and the Lib Dems would gain 4 from the Tories - leaving the Tories on about 290 seats and Labour on 280-odd seats. These aren't ironclad by any means since the UK system usually isn't so indecisive and manifestos haven't been published nor campaigning started, but it's an interesting insight.
Theresa May will call an election if she thinks the Tories can regain their majority.
Agreed, the parties are neck and neck in reality (frightening when Tories are in turmoil) but as I mentioned before however much a mess May has made of things in recent months she's consistently polled ahead of Corbyn in the leadership polls. surely that tells you something ?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Frankly, had she shown a willingness to cooperate with others, we wouldn't even be in a position where her deal was rejected by 230 votes. She really should have resigned for this monumental cock-up. Theresa May is in no position to lecture anyone on the national interest and is guilty as anyone for politicking, and if her decision to call the 2017 GE doesn't make that point clear, what will?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Let’s be honest - your interpretation of outcomes regarding this issue have been to say the least lacking
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It very much is down to what you perceive as leadership. Some people see leadership as fist shaking, soundbites and fancy suits. Some people see leadership as having a vision of how you will make the country a better place.
Take the election, Labour's manifesto was on how to improve the country, make it fairer. The Tory one had nothing, and their campaign was solely 'don't pick them you'll get chaos'
I know which one I see as real leadership.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Bit like yours then.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Historically they have all done it though and it's one thing that puts me off politics.
I don't see of how a policy of they are worse than us is something to be proudly campaigning upon.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
For starts, the SNP, LD, Greens and PC have all said for talks to be 'constructive', the PM needs to rule out the possibility of a no-deal Brexit and seriously entertain the prospect of a People's Vote. Labour's position on this is the same minus the People's Vote part, which Corbyn will not back unless he absolutely has to. The PM has used these token meetings with the opposition leaders as a PR stunt, and it has worked on the likes of you who have gobbled this nonsense up as a lifelong Labour voter who'll abstain rather than vote for Corbyn over this issue!
Frankly, the Tories are setting a trap for Labour. Now, the immediate pressure is on Corbyn to back a Second Referendum which is a bad idea because of a lot of Labour's northern heartlands backed Leave. A group of Labour MPs are pressuring him to do this today! Theresa May wants to portray Corbyn and the Labour Party as attempting to subvert the democratic will of 2016 in a potential election.
Not at all, this is only the first motion of no confidence that will be tabled against the Government. Unless a 'no deal Brexit' becomes Government policy, Tories won't rebel. Theresa May has broken convention by not resigning.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, Labour had led the Conservatives on economic management in 2010, in the middle of the recession.
Polls on leadership and the economy usually favours the incumbent PM and party -- but a party typically doesn't win power if it trails on both of those measures.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Ha ha ha ha. Why don’t you tell us all again how the Tories are going to smash Labour in the GE consigning Corbyn to the trash bin.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How’s that worked out by the way? Presumably the deal must be done with the threat of no deal?
Nick
Administrator
Serious question.
Do we think there will be "Brexit" and "Remain" firms that will meet up for scraps?
On another note, Corbyn seems like a sly bastard to me. All MPs are but something about him. The sort who would come to save you after being mugged but take your wallet and keys.
Do we think there will be "Brexit" and "Remain" firms that will meet up for scraps?
On another note, Corbyn seems like a sly bastard to me. All MPs are but something about him. The sort who would come to save you after being mugged but take your wallet and keys.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Give an example of one lie.
Haha, not well ! however, its exactly the point though Tony. The withdrawal agreement, for all its faults, would have ensured No Deal didn't happen. The next stage of the discussions (as Ive said before) would have involved a trade agreement, which considering the backstop issues may have ended with some type of permanent customs union....so basically the giving the opposition parties the two things they are now all pushing for ! (taking no deal off the table and a potential CU)
So basically Corbyn and Labour could have taken No Deal off the table earlier in the week by voting in favour with, for example, a proposed amendment for the government to prioritise a CU arrangement ahead of entering the backstop. It would have weakened our negotiating position, which I wouldn't have liked, and may not have been voted through, but would have at least been a sensible proposal by the opposition.
To busy trying to force a GE though !
Nick
Administrator
Not unless you want to find a bag of coke and a tied up rent boy in the boot.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't be a very good mugging if you still had your wallet and keys!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Look at his expense claims compared to other MPs and tell me you think the same.
But why the Corbyn bashing is going on it takes the spotlight of the people who are really running the country into the ground.
I don't like Vince Cable, but just like Corbyn his party are not in office and his influence is minimal so I would never point the finger at him over what has gone on in the last few years, it's the government who should be shouldering the blame.
That doesn't mean any politician is beyond criticism but when opposition politicians are in the headlines more than cabinet ministers any one with half a brain should be able to work out there's a con trick being pulled.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Grendel and Captain Dart do.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
This country could be choosing between ice cream and a punch in the face and the polls would still be
40% - Ice Cream
40% - Punch in the face
11% - Don't know
9% - Lib Dem
40% - Ice Cream
40% - Punch in the face
11% - Don't know
9% - Lib Dem
Astute
Well-Known Member
The same YouGov that always has remain higher than leave and always higher than any other poll? Yet it is said by some that Labour wants remain and the Tories leave.