Albany Meeting ? (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

That would be suicidal. Club would have to grow organically, so may as well write the Ricoh off for five years at least. Wouldn't mean the Ricoh was out forever and a day, but would undoubtedly be best starting somewhere more manageable.

It doesn't stop the cock teasing though from David Johnson to get people's appetite up The same as when he was telling people if the club goes into admin the fans can pick up the pieces.

 

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[shmmeee]

The vast majority of it was about what can be done. When things went off track Moz got on the mic and tried to steer it in the right direction. It's the start of an open dialogue and as I stated before the meeting any ideas anyone has will be welcomed. Email or PM them in. What do you have to lose by doing so?

CJ.

Has anyone obtained a copy of the Ricoh lease?

If we are going to find an action it will be legal IMHO. Might be community asset status, might be terms of the lease or a responsiblity CCC have.

We can’t put politicial or social pressure on, we need to find a lever we can pull.

I’d also argue that we do need a plan for if SISU liquidate as that’s their lever at the moment. Removing that threat might help bring them to the table as they can’t rely on fan pressure on Wasps/CCC (which is why they refuse to give an alternative. If they admit it’s not do or die they get blamed for the club going pop not Wasps/CCC).

 

[shmmeee]

Agree Nick-I’ve said a million times that if this was any other major city in the country the public would not let a Rugby Club take over the home Football Clubs ground-the scandal and backlash would be huge.

Another big city council wouldn’t ever dare go against a city football team either. But it’s all been about egos and personality not the real issue. There’s been plenty of shit owners of football clubs but only in Coventry has this lead to our current sad state of affairs. Only in Coventry is anti football club diatribe been hoovered up by a whole City’s apathy.

Terrible to say that about my home town but true.


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This post is such self pitying bollocks.

 

[Nick]

Agree Nick-I’ve said a million times that if this was any other major city in the country the public would not let a Rugby Club take over the home Football Clubs ground-the scandal and backlash would be huge.

Another big city council wouldn’t ever dare go against a city football team either. But it’s all been about egos and personality not the real issue. There’s been plenty of shit owners of football clubs but only in Coventry has this lead to our current sad state of affairs. Only in Coventry is anti football club diatribe been hoovered up by a whole City’s apathy.

Terrible to say that about my home town but true.


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The issue is that the Trust lurk about people like Hoffman, Council, Wasps, Haskell etc for a sniff of fan ownership.

They will never do or say anything that has any chance of upsetting any of them because they see them as allies because they don't like SISU either. Nobody ever did admit who it was with a Supporter's Direct email account working with the council's PR company either.

It gives other parties a free pass to do what they want because they know they can just get away with it. Look at when Wasps came here and the article about how it was a great sporting occasion. It gets brought up over and over because that's the example that was set by the supporters group in the press at that time when everybody was looking to people like that for advice and leadership.

Same with the local media, they have no resources but to copy and paste pre-prepared statements.

This isn't just with SISU either, go back to just before they came in when the Council were laughing people away who wanted to buy into the Ricoh with the club.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Removing that threat might help bring them to the table as they can’t rely on fan pressure on Wasps/CCC (which is why they refuse to give an alternative. If they admit it’s not do or die they get blamed for the club going pop not Wasps/CCC).

I'm not convinced it will. Part of me thinks it might even be to SISU's advantage to see us go pop (if you're suing, a former club has cost a lot more in damages than one still about) so not convinced that works in reality.

I appreciate I may be overly cynical / paranoid...

 

[clint van damme]

I'd argue the motivations for both sets of owners are rather different, anyway.

I'd also argue that his motivation is different to that of the Blackpool supporters, (see post 345).

 

[pastythegreat]

There is a massive difference between clubs like Newport who went under with massive financial difficulties

There seems to be some desire for this to happen amongst some people as some kind of utopia to rid the club of sisu and let Johnson and his merry men sit on the board of a football club, something I would fundamentally oppose. It’s a pipe dream to suggest thousands would support the club and bewildering that Wasps would become a registered charity and allow the club to play there (as the club wouldn’t be able to afford any form of rent and match day costs)

It’s equaly bewildering anyone would want to ever set foot in a place again which is owned by the very people who would have bought the club down

I’m out

If CCFC were to fold under any circumstances at the hand of anybody, regardless of fault, I'd be done with football altogether. I don't really like the premier league in its current form so I don't watch that anyway. And in terms of attending football every week, I only go mow because of my love affair with CCFC. The club is in my veins, it's history, what it stands for, what it's built on and is. If CCFC fold then what It'd be wouldn't be any of what I support now. I just couldn't get as passionate or excited about watching Cov Shpinx or Cov Utd.
I think I'd just knock football on the head. Maybe attend the odd Cov Rugby game to keep my live sport fix up, but I think as far as football goes, I'm out.

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[clint van damme]

This post is such self pitying bollocks.

explain?

 

[mark82]

The biggest question is how does a club in Cov United's League (which is where Hereford started) pay to play at the Ricoh.

I have watched mates play in Cup Finals there at the same level where every player takes their family and friends and they just open the side by the dugouts and there's a couple of hundred max.

It will be the same as usual. I'd be very surprised if there is anything "negative" or even in a "negative tone" said about the Council or Wasps. The council leader knows this and even smugly gloated about it. He openly bullshitted about something and said he knows that public opinion is on his side and that was that.

Hereford played in that division as a result of where they were in the football pyramid. They took a 2 division drop. Nuneaton also took a 2 division drop to the Southern Premier League First Division when they reformed. 2 division drop is the usual punishment. Chester were placed at the northern equivalent level to Nuneaton after a successful appeal against being placed a division lower, so eventually a 2 division drop. There are exceptions, like Darlington who took a 4 division drop on the recommendation of the FA.

Essentially there is no hard and fast rule but they'd look at things like the size of the fan base, etc. Would you want a club with the potential fan base of CCFC at a level where grounds are generally small and unsegregated? Would be a nightmare for some of the clubs at that level. As I say, the usual drop is 2 divisions but it's a decision for the FA. The reason it's important to have a plan in place is that you would have to act almost straight away on liquidation to make sure that the reformed club is able to be placed at a higher level in the pyramid. If you miss a year you lose your place in the football pyramid entirely, and in that circumstance you would end up starting a lot closer to the bottom rung (although they still would take potential crowd issues into account, you could only be placed where there is space).

I still think it's highly unlikely it will ever come to this anyway. Not sure it really suits anyone to wind up the club. I think a deal will be done eventually, even if for another year. If that doesn't happen, would imagine the Football League will cave and let them play elsewhere on a temporary basis, which we obviously don't want but at least it keeps the club active.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I wouldn't get behind a Phoenix club. No longer living in Cov i would have no affinity with it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There is a massive difference between clubs like Newport who went under with massive financial difficulties

There seems to be some desire for this to happen amongst some people as some kind of utopia to rid the club of sisu and let Johnson and his merry men sit on the board of a football club, something I would fundamentally oppose. It’s a pipe dream to suggest thousands would support the club and bewildering that Wasps would become a registered charity and allow the club to play there (as the club wouldn’t be able to afford any form of rent and match day costs)

It’s equaly bewildering anyone would want to ever set foot in a place again which is owned by the very people who would have bought the club down

I’m out

Amen to that

 

[chiefdave]

Which other clubs have gone bust and reformed. Anyone know of a list?

This came up recently on another thread and I did a bit of research. I'll try and find the post later but basically the majority of clubs that have gone down that route explicitly state that it is not the same club.

If City go bust and a new club is formed and called Coventry City AFC and plays in sky blue and are nicknamed the Sky Blues and the fans still sing the sky blue song and it has ex players such as Oggy and Dietmar Bruck and Busst and many, many others backing it, then yes, that IS Coventry City for me.

What happens if there's two rival groups who want to run the new club, one starts AFC Coventry City and one starts Coventry City AFC. Both enter the pyramid in the same division, both have former players backing them, both play in sky blue and have fans singing the sky blue song. Which one is Coventry City then?

The Newport County formed in 1912 went out of business in 1988 and reformed in 1989 as a CONTINUATION of the old club.

You've just proved Nicks point. Newport Country went out of business in 1988 and ceased to exist. They failed to finish the season and were thrown out of the league.
They clearly state on their own website its a new club.

Following the sad demise of Newport County in February 1989, a new club, Newport AFC, was created by a group of County supporters three months later.

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[Grendel]

explain?

He was implying other councils would have done more to preserve the football club to someone who gets very precious about such things

 

[mark82]

A Phoenix club playing at the Ricoh is just Coventry United.

To be clear, Coventry United are not a phoenix club. They are a protest club. They are to CCFC what FC United are to Man United. Whether you support a reformed club or not they are not Coventry United.

 

[Captain Dart]

Why would they not submit the accounts? They haven’t failed before have they?

They have but not recently. Pretty sure they will be filed, it is in everyone's interests the club is seen to be well run from a financial POV.

 

[clint van damme]

To be clear, Coventry United are not a phoenix club. They are a protest club. They are to CCFC what FC United are to Man United. Whether you support a reformed club or not they are not Coventry United.

they're an ego trip.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The Trust has to be prepared for all eventualities, from SISU staying through to Otium t/a CCFC being liquidated. There are therefore contingency plans in place to cover various scenarios, it would be pretty unprofessional not to have. Really do not see a problem with that or making it known that there are

To be clear the TRUST stance is not to push for the insolvency of Otium in order to get the fans in control of the club. There is no mechanism in law at all by which they can do that, and the Trust Board have been told that in no uncertain terms. SISU are the only ones that can control an insolvency and that has always been the case since they started loading the club with debt in 2009.

Although Wasps could help create a scenario where insolvency is possible, and quite clearly they are, it would be still all be in the control of SISU

From what i have read here, correct me if i am wrong, there was during the evening a couple of minutes where a pheonix club was raised by one of the audience then the discussion moved on. Yet on here, after all the complaining about lack of focus on the stadium tenancy, the main topic for discussion is a pheonix club :banghead:

The meeting seems to have been an opportunity for fans to voice their thoughts, and it is very difficult to stop people going off at tangents to the purpose. You can not say the Trust never listen then complain when fans in a meeting are allowed to voice their opinions. As yet no strategy or plan has emerged from the meeting. It might never. It seems some would prefer everyone to sit around and do nothing, just accept, acquiesce to we can not change things - not my choice but accept it is a valid choice, just dont berate or mock others for trying to do something.

In terms of filing the accounts, I raised the matter on this forum weeks ago. In my opinion i do not see how any auditor or director can sign off the accounts as a going concern, unless there is a definite prospect of a solution at the Ricoh or a Plan B that the directors, owners & EFL are party to. In current circumstances i would think filing will be delayed. Signing off as a non going concern could be catastrophic.

I am curious how people think that when a club gives away 12000 tickets (a great initiative imo) but still can not "sell" the stadium out how they believe that on days of few free tickets and full price such a sell out could be achieved? That is not to say we shouldnt all be encouraging people to go.

No we dont have a lot of influence to change things, the only thing that all fans groups can do is to keep raising the issue with all parties involved (CCFC, SISU, Wasps, CCC, EFL, MP's etc)............ at this time just supporting the team and staying out of the politics is not enough. That pressure has to be on all sides otherwise a solution is not going to work - excusing one parties right to do something whilst expecting of others is not going to work

 

[chiefdave]

Im by no means an AV expert but there will be people who know more about cameras / mics. Vloggers etc.

What about asking the Telegraph or CWR if they are interested in streaming if there's a similar meeting in the future.

 

[Nick]

It's interesting that Wasps could help create a scenario where insolvency is possible (and as you say they clearly are) by not doing a deal but there still won't be an ounce of negativity towards them. It will be in SISU's control, as it ended up last time when ACL tried to do it so it is a dangerous game.

People are making the point about fans groups like the Trust encouraging people to go and support the team. How many times have they said "get down to the Ricoh and support CCFC?"

What I find interesting is that Johnson said a deal may be possible for a phoenix club to play at the Ricoh, has he discussed it with Wasps or just guessing?

The silence against Wasps is deafening, the sudden emphasis on the club not being able to file accounts without a deal etc. It really does look like an ACL / Haskell MK2.

 

[chiefdave]

To be clear, Coventry United are not a phoenix club. They are a protest club. They are to CCFC what FC United are to Man United. Whether you support a reformed club or not they are not Coventry United.

Remember there's people involved with the trust who are also involved with Coventry United. So what happens if the trust went there's not time to start a new club from scratch, we're going to rebrand Coventry United AFC Coventry City and change the kit to Sky Blue?

Its easy to say 'that would never happen' but you can be sure egos would start coming in to play and it could end up very messy.

 

[ccfcrob]

You suggestion is a bit daft to be honest.

This would be a new club formed out of the ashes of the old club, so a direct and tangible link to the original club and that is entirely different to a club that is already in existence and has existed independently for over 70 years.

Which other clubs have gone bust and reformed. Anyone know of a list?

Wimbledon, Chester, Aldershot to name a few

 

[dazed&confused]

The Trust has to be prepared for all eventualities, from SISU staying through to Otium t/a CCFC being liquidated. There are therefore contingency plans in place to cover various scenarios, it would be pretty unprofessional not to have. Really do not see a problem with that or making it known that there are

To be clear the TRUST stance is not to push for the insolvency of Otium in order to get the fans in control of the club. There is no mechanism in law at all by which they can do that, and the Trust Board have been told that in no uncertain terms. SISU are the only ones that can control an insolvency and that has always been the case since they started loading the club with debt in 2009.

Although Wasps could help create a scenario where insolvency is possible, and quite clearly they are, it would be still all be in the control of SISU

From what i have read here, correct me if i am wrong, there was during the evening a couple of minutes where a pheonix club was raised by one of the audience then the discussion moved on. Yet on here, after all the complaining about lack of focus on the stadium tenancy, the main topic for discussion is a pheonix club :banghead:

The meeting seems to have been an opportunity for fans to voice their thoughts, and it is very difficult to stop people going off at tangents to the purpose. You can not say the Trust never listen then complain when fans in a meeting are allowed to voice their opinions. As yet no strategy or plan has emerged from the meeting. It might never. It seems some would prefer everyone to sit around and do nothing, just accept, acquiesce to we can not change things - not my choice but accept it is a valid choice, just dont berate or mock others for trying to do something.

In terms of filing the accounts, I raised the matter on this forum weeks ago. In my opinion i do not see how any auditor or director can sign off the accounts as a going concern, unless there is a definite prospect of a solution at the Ricoh or a Plan B that the directors, owners & EFL are party to. In current circumstances i would think filing will be delayed. Signing off as a non going concern could be catastrophic.

I am curious how people think that when a club gives away 12000 tickets (a great initiative imo) but still can not "sell" the stadium out how they believe that on days of few free tickets and full price such a sell out could be achieved? That is not to say we shouldnt all be encouraging people to go.

No we dont have a lot of influence to change things, the only thing that all fans groups can do is to keep raising the issue with all parties involved (CCFC, SISU, Wasps, CCC, EFL, MP's etc)............ at this time just supporting the team and staying out of the politics is not enough. That pressure has to be on all sides otherwise a solution is not going to work - excusing one parties right to do something whilst expecting of others is not going to work

Thank God. A voice of reason in amongst all the swivel-eyed nonsense posted on here.

 

[mark82]

This came up recently on another thread and I did a bit of research. I'll try and find the post later but basically the majority of clubs that have gone down that route explicitly state that it is not the same club.

What happens if there's two rival groups who want to run the new club, one starts AFC Coventry City and one starts Coventry City AFC. Both enter the pyramid in the same division, both have former players backing them, both play in sky blue and have fans singing the sky blue song. Which one is Coventry City then?

You've just proved Nicks point. Newport Country went out of business in 1988 and ceased to exist. They failed to finish the season and were thrown out of the league.
They clearly state on their own website its a new club.




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I think legally they have to state they are a new club, otherwise I guess they would become liable for debts, etc (just guessing, I have no particular legal insight around this). What the fans think is more important I guess. Do Newport fans consider themselves a continuation? I would guess so.

It's quite a long time since Newport were wound up and things have changed a lot since then in terms of where you have to restart, as it's become a lot more commonplace.

Regarding if 2 clubs are formed, only one would be recognised by the FA as a continuation and would be placed at a higher level. The other would be considered a new club and start at the bottom. Guess it would be up to individuals which they recognised (if any) but the scenario would be hugely unhelpful to either club.

 

[mark82]

they're an ego trip.

Can't disagree with that.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

I am curious how people think that when a club gives away 12000 tickets (a great initiative imo) but still can not "sell" the stadium out how they believe that on days of few free tickets and full price such a sell out could be achieved? That is not to say we shouldnt all be encouraging people to go.

95% wont go because of form of the club (ie if we were challenging for promotion and playing entertaining football-it would be a sell out).

5% wont go because of SISU.


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[Nick]

I think legally they have to state they are a new club, otherwise I guess they would become liable for debts, etc (just guessing, I have no particular legal insight around this). What the fans think is more important I guess. Do Newport fans consider themselves a continuation? I would guess so.

It's quite a long time since Newport were wound up and things have changed a lot since then in terms of where you have to restart, as it's become a lot more commonplace.

Regarding if 2 clubs are formed, only one would be recognised by the FA as a continuation and would be placed at a higher level. The other would be considered a new club and start at the bottom. Guess it would be up to individuals which they recognised (if any) but the scenario would be hugely unhelpful to either club.

People keep saying it's "what the fans think" but they dont answer when I ask what would happen if 10,000 city fans adopted cov sphinx or cov united and decide they are the new CCFC.

If 2 clubs are formed, how do they decide which is CCFC?

 

[Nick]

95% wont go because of form of the club (ie if we were challenging for promotion and playing entertaining football-it would be a sell out).

5% wont go because of SISU.


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People don't go because they aren't really arsed. Then you have shouty people who claim to be arsed who don't go anyway.

"THE CLUB SHOULD STAY IN COVENTRY, WE LOVE THIS CLUB"
"I dont go because I can't sit next to my friends unless I have a season ticket"

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think legally they have to state they are a new club, otherwise I guess they would become liable for debts, etc (just guessing, I have no particular legal insight around this). What the fans think is more important I guess. Do Newport fans consider themselves a continuation? I would guess so.

It's quite a long time since Newport were wound up and things have changed a lot since then in terms of where you have to restart, as it's become a lot more commonplace.

Regarding if 2 clubs are formed, only one would be recognised by the FA as a continuation and would be placed at a higher level. The other would be considered a new club and start at the bottom. Guess it would be up to individuals which they recognised (if any) but the scenario would be hugely unhelpful to either club.

The social is about belief. I can say unequivocally from my research (admittedly out of date, but substantially more than a quick scan) that Newport do indeed believe it to be a continuation.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

The silence against Wasps is deafening, the sudden emphasis on the club not being able to file accounts without a deal etc. It really does look like an ACL / Haskell MK2.

That’s what I think-where’s the protests against Wasps withholding a deal? Where’s the pressure on that cuckoo of a rugby club to agree to a deal. Like I said the apathy is deafening!


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[oldskyblue58]

The silence against Wasps is deafening, the sudden emphasis on the club not being able to file accounts without a deal etc. It really does look like an ACL / Haskell MK2.

I am certainly not saying there shouldnt be pressure on Wasps, there should be. The accounts are due by 28/02/2019 and could possibly impact on the season, when should it be raised?

As for ACL/Haskell then has i have explained several times before there was never any way that could have been successful - its a red herring. All SISU had to do to avoid regime change was to say NO

 

[chiefdave]

To be clear the TRUST stance is not to push for the insolvency of Otium in order to get the fans in control of the club. There is no mechanism in law at all by which they can do that, and the Trust Board have been told that in no uncertain terms. SISU are the only ones that can control an insolvency and that has always been the case since they started loading the club with debt in 2009.

You've posted similar before but the problem is that is not how people are perceiving the Trusts stance. It needs the trust to very clearly shut down any talk of boycotts, administration, phoenix clubs etc. Every time it is raised they should clearly state that is not a route supported by the trust and not an option that is being considered.

Same with boycotts, Fisher resigning, SISU out or anything similar. Every time its raised clearly state that's not a priority at the moment, ensuring we can play at the Ricoh next season is.

 

[mark82]

Remember there's people involved with the trust who are also involved with Coventry United. So what happens if the trust went there's not time to start a new club from scratch, we're going to rebrand Coventry United AFC Coventry City and change the kit to Sky Blue?

Its easy to say 'that would never happen' but you can be sure egos would start coming in to play and it could end up very messy.

I didn't know that to be fair. I would be hugely against that in principle.

 

[mark82]

Wimbledon, Chester, Aldershot to name a few

Wimbledon are a little different as another club took their place in the football league.

 

[Nick]

I am certainly not saying there shouldnt be pressure on Wasps, there should be. The accounts are due by 28/02/2019 and could possibly impact on the season, when should it be raised?

As for ACL/Haskell then has i have explained several times before there was never any way that could have been successful - its a red herring. All SISU had to do to avoid regime change was to say NO

Did ACL expect SISU to do what they did and still be owners afterwards?

It should have been raised with SISU, CCC and Wasps months ago. I know the response will be "we sent them a letter" but the pattern is this:

"SISU FUCKING TIM FISHER TIMMY TIMMY TIM BOYCOTT SCUM"
"We apologise to Wasps and sincerely hope that they will help and we won't upset them, sorry again wasps"
"Council, please make them talk"
"TIMMY TIMMY FUCK OFF SISU RESIGN"
"PROTESTS"

Then it's "but we pressured all sides".

Has anybody even questioned Duggins clearly bullshitting and then being smug about it?

 

[CJ_covblaze]

You've posted similar before but the problem is that is not how people are perceiving the Trusts stance. It needs the trust to very clearly shut down any talk of boycotts, administration, phoenix clubs etc. Every time it is raised they should clearly state that is not a route supported by the trust and not an option that is being considered.

Same with boycotts, Fisher resigning, SISU out or anything similar. Every time its raised clearly state that's not a priority at the moment, ensuring we can play at the Ricoh next season is.

We did say this last night whenever it was brought up.