Stan Collymore -Thorn (2 Viewers)

[georgehudson]

which one of us would have been able to cope with our owners farcically stringent methods,
then, if there is someone,
why are you not manager,
in the words of 'holland-dozier-holland',
put yourself in my place,
PUSB

 

---

[dadgad]

And so..... after a quiet period following some success, the kduffy jaundiced showcase rolls back into town.

If he stays it's because no one wants him, eh? And yet again - in your perverse little bubble, you'll have been right about him all along. He may get offers and decline them, that you'll perhaps never be party to, but you'll convince yourself you're right.....

So, if we stay up, and Thorn stays; kduffy was right all along. Why ever didnt the rest of us see it earlier?

MMM, you'd get more joy shouting at a fence post.
Woodn't waste your time.

 

[Grendel]

MMM, you'd get more joy shouting at a fence post.
Woodn't waste your time.

Was Woodn't spellt wrong as a pun (fence post) or are you not that clever?

 

[Grendel]

Was Woodn't spellt wrong as a pun (fence post) or are you not that clever?

...and will you take the bait with an obvious response?

 

[kg82]

And another thread descends into a mundane cycle of abuse!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's what we do best

 

[Grendel]

It's what we do best

And as it's about something Collymore said there has to be a pun somewhere.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Or a few defeats. People seem to judge a manager solely on results. I think the owners of the club have hindered AT, more than they have helped him. We were favourites for relegation. The defeats disapointed me but did not really shock me. My opinion on AT was still good as I counter balanced his performance before he lost six senior pros and gained only 2. Against his performance after these events. Hence the defeats did not make me think he had suddenly became a bad manager. I now see him performing again, I think it is mainly down to been able to sign a couple of players and a couple coming back from injury.
However we still have a light squad an injury to Keogh and Platt for example at the same time for a few weeks. I believe we would suffer a few defeats again. It's a strange thing to say but with the clubs current finances and owners approach I think judging AT on defeats would be harsh. However showing surprise at him getting results under these circumstances is normal.

'Football's a results business' as they say. The problem comes when people decide to take the results completely on face value with no regard for context-'Isn't Mancini doing a great job at Man City' type comments fall into that bracket. The difference with the Thorn argument is that, even when put in the context of poor ownership, his record up to Christmas made for miserable reading, and there's no shying from that. The upturn in form we're enjoying now is a result of the combination of lots of different factors, of which Thorn's development as a manager is one.

 

[dongonzalos]

Genuinely Duffy I do think there is a real fear of losing AT. Some people on here suggest he is on a 6 month contract.

If that is true then that was SISU's faith in him for keeping the club up and saving their asses.
Then they let 6 senior pros go and sign 2 players.
We are told that the money freed up from each of the 6 will be used on replacements. Yet some how we only sign 2
Then some orange bloke sits beside him on the bench and makes everybody look a tit.
Then he has to put up with about 9 different bosses in different capacities coming and going.
Then whilst we are in the bottom 3 they promise 4 loan signings, we get 2 but they they sell our top scorer aswell.
Then the books get submitted late and we get a transfer embargo on the same day one of the new leaders tells us we are still out their looking for new signings
I assume Thorn was not getting told the truth whilst we were getting lied to. So I assume he has been lied to most the season aswell
We were favourites relegation at the start of the season. So if he keeps us up he will have done very well.
I think other clubs will notice that. They will also notice his ability to spot and sign a good player.
There is every chance he may get approached by another club.
I think Leicester or Notts Forest would not go too far wrong getting hold of him
I think if there is no take over and SISU start weilding the axe again. Then any club that promises AT more influence in the transfers and a bit of honesty and stability would be in with a good chance of getting him.

 

[Grendel]

He is on a rolling contract which probably means very limited resignation period and no compensation either way - he'll be here next season - no pay rise required.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Genuinely Duffy I do think there is a real fear of losing AT. Some people on here suggest he is on a 6 month contract.

If that is true then that was SISU's faith in him for keeping the club up and saving their asses.
Then they let 6 senior pros go and sign 2 players.
We are told that the money freed up from each of the 6 will be used on replacements. Yet some how we only sign 2
Then some orange bloke sits beside him on the bench and makes everybody look a tit.
Then he has to put up with about 9 different bosses in different capacities coming and going.
Then whilst we are in the bottom 3 they promise 4 loan signings, we get 2 but they they sell our top scorer aswell.
Then the books get submitted late and we get a transfer embargo on the same day one of the new leaders tells us we are still out their looking for new signings
I assume Thorn was not getting told the truth whilst we were getting lied to. So I assume he has been lied to most the season aswell
We were favourites relegation at the start of the season. So if he keeps us up he will have done very well.
I think other clubs will notice that. They will also notice his ability to spot and sign a good player.
There is every chance he may get approached by another club.
I think Leicester or Notts Forest would not go too far wrong getting hold of him
I think if there is no take over and SISU start weilding the axe again. Then any club that promises AT more influence in the transfers and a bit of honesty and stability would be in with a good chance of getting him.

I'd counter that by saying that Thorn's developed a genuinely strong affinity for the club-it's well known that he's been working both as scout and manager this season. He isn't exactly articulate which makes his interviews mundane, but the general impression is of someone who's got a real enthusiasm for his job. Money does talk, but in my opinion, he could've walked a long time ago and few would've blamed him, so why leave now when things have a realistic chance of turning the corner?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

He takes every opportunity he can to say he loves the club, and also that he thinks the fans have been fantastic-the latter makes it into most interviews. Yet it seems to go unnoticed.

 

[Astute]

I'd counter that by saying that Thorn's developed a genuinely strong affinity for the club-it's well known that he's been working both as scout and manager this season. He isn't exactly articulate which makes his interviews mundane, but the general impression is of someone who's got a real enthusiasm for his job. Money does talk, but in my opinion, he could've walked a long time ago and few would've blamed him, so why leave now when things have a realistic chance of turning the corner?

How many times do you think he can take it though of getting a small squad of players brought through the ranks only to be sold and having a struggle to get the season going?

How many teams had their squad ripped apart during the pre season, then weakened even more each transfer window. Then to manage to go from relegation certainties to putting an unbeaten run together on what looked to be a very tough run of games. This is whilst playing good football which is what fans want to see. This will not have gone unnoticed.

I just hope we don't suffer a tripple whammy of struggling whilst our manager learns his trade, then losing him as he has the knowledge of how to do things better with experience and also losing a very good scout all in one go. I feel as though we can go places together with AT and a small bit of backing, but to lose him would put us back to looking for another manager and everything that comes with it.

 

[Macca]

And another thread descends into a mundane cycle of abuse!

Usual suspects

 

[covcity4life]

he must be in line for chelsea job????

hell be here enxt year if the club want him.

 

[skybluejelly]

in fairness our results improved once orange ken left the club..you could almost feel the pressure lifted off thorns shoulders after the debacle of him sitting on the bench

 

[@richh87]

What Astute says is spot on as usual.

Too many seem to think that the players available has no affect on the results and/or pretend that the numerous kids and squad players are as good as the players we lost.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How many times do you think he can take it though of getting a small squad of players brought through the ranks only to be sold and having a struggle to get the season going?

How many teams had their squad ripped apart during the pre season, then weakened even more each transfer window. Then to manage to go from relegation certainties to putting an unbeaten run together on what looked to be a very tough run of games. This is whilst playing good football which is what fans want to see. This will not have gone unnoticed.

I just hope we don't suffer a tripple whammy of struggling whilst our manager learns his trade, then losing him as he has the knowledge of how to do things better with experience and also losing a very good scout all in one go. I feel as though we can go places together with AT and a small bit of backing, but to lose him would put us back to looking for another manager and everything that comes with it.

We'll see that this summer if indeed the promising youngsters are sold. To assume Thorn's likelihood to leave would simply be speculation, and that we wouldn't find another manager capable of doing a job is again speculation. The ownership situation will be the more deciding factor I'd say-all we can hope is that FFP levels the playing field.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What Astute says is spot on as usual.

Too many seem to think that the players available has no affect on the results and/or pretend that the numerous kids and squad players are as good as the players we lost.

Leaping to the extreme conclusions there Rich.

 

[dongonzalos]

he must be in line for chelsea job????

hell be here enxt year if the club want him.

Think that is a bit unrealistic, probably stick with the suggestion the origional post i.e. other championship clubs like Forest or Leicester.

Who would have thought that a championship side that have spent loads of money may become interested in a manager who have spent £350,000 lost a load of players and nearly achieves the same as their managers. Seems far more realistic when you say like that that doesnt it?

In relation to your last comment, yes why would he not want to work for the owners of Coventry they have been fantasic. You hear him saying it everyweek dont you, Just like Harry Redknapp does, Just Like Fergie does.

Or does he say the fans are fantastic the players are fantastic.

I am afraid if a club which in not run like a circus shows an interest. AT will consider it. That does not mean he does not love the fans or the players. However these owners could destroy his reputation as a manager and end his career before it begins.

If he is honest with himself, if a less farcically run club shows an interest I would bear no grudge with him for going

 

[Astute]

We'll see that this summer if indeed the promising youngsters are sold. To assume Thorn's likelihood to leave would simply be speculation, and that we wouldn't find another manager capable of doing a job is again speculation. The ownership situation will be the more deciding factor I'd say-all we can hope is that FFP levels the playing field.

Agreed mainly speculation, but anything that is not fact is speculation. So we could jist get another manager and all will be OK? We have got through too many managers in recent years.

With the fair play rules coming in chairmen will be looking for managers that can manage on a shoestring, not spend millions getting slightly better. Good news for football in the long run, bad news for teams with the type of manager teams will be looking for.

 

[EleanorRigby]

'holland-dozier-holland',
PUSB

Fucking good half-back line that was

 

[Astute]

he must be in line for chelsea job????

hell be here enxt year if the club want him.

Is this fact, speculation, or is there a slight bit of overdoing it?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

He takes every opportunity he can to say he loves the club, and also that he thinks the fans have been fantastic-the latter makes it into most interviews. Yet it seems to go unnoticed.

It is never questioned though either though.


I don't think any supporter has ever questioned Thorn's commitment, passion or desire to do well for the club and the fans.

 

[dongonzalos]

I just think some people on here seem to arrogantly think it is a case of if we want thorn we will have and it is a simple as that.

Others seem to think because he loves the fans an players he will automatically stay.

However if you liked your work collegues but your boses were arseholes. They keep making decisions that you end up taking the flack for.

Then someone offers you the chance to do the same job for maybe the same or a little bit more money. However in your opinion the bosses are better. What would you do

 

[Astute]

I just think some people on here seem to arrogantly think it is a case of if we want thorn we will have and it is a simple as that.

Others seem to think because he loves the fans an players he will automatically stay.

However if you liked your work collegues but your boses were arseholes. They keep making decisions that you end up taking the flack for.

Then someone offers you the chance to do the same job for maybe the same or a little bit more money. However in your opinion the bosses are better. What would you do

Personally I would stay where I am. There again I tell my bosses how I do my job although they disagree with me. It comes down to results at the end of the day. Like football I suppose.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agreed mainly speculation, but anything that is not fact is speculation. So we could jist get another manager and all will be OK? We have got through too many managers in recent years.

With the fair play rules coming in chairmen will be looking for managers that can manage on a shoestring, not spend millions getting slightly better. Good news for football in the long run, bad news for teams with the type of manager teams will be looking for.

Then Thorn would be the first to leave with his reputation enhanced since God knows who. The most likely replacement with SISU in charge would be internal (Carsley?), and it's an uncertain season ahead. Such is the Championship that we could find ourselves anywhere if we stay up.

 

[dadgad]

How many times do you think he can take it though of getting a small squad of players brought through the ranks only to be sold and having a struggle to get the season going?

How many teams had their squad ripped apart during the pre season, then weakened even more each transfer window. Then to manage to go from relegation certainties to putting an unbeaten run together on what looked to be a very tough run of games. This is whilst playing good football which is what fans want to see. This will not have gone unnoticed.

I just hope we don't suffer a tripple whammy of struggling whilst our manager learns his trade, then losing him as he has the knowledge of how to do things better with experience and also losing a very good scout all in one go. I feel as though we can go places together with AT and a small bit of backing, but to lose him would put us back to looking for another manager and everything that comes with it.

Some excellent points raised here. astute :claping hands:

Well worth repeating what i have consistently maintained: AT, best thing to happen to this club in ages, stuck to his guns. :claping hands:

Ironically clubs continue to hire and fire big names when often the real answer lies in promoting from within and then not panicking at the first sign of difficulty.

 

[Astute]

Then Thorn would be the first to leave with his reputation enhanced since God knows who. The most likely replacement with SISU in charge would be internal (Carsley?), and it's an uncertain season ahead. Such is the Championship that we could find ourselves anywhere if we stay up.

Poor teams going down from this Div. Big teams going down from the Prem with money coming from Sky. Would love to see who goes up from this Div. and who goes down from the Prem before we have an idea on next season.

 

[Nick]

The thing is, that is assuming that Thorn will get loads of job offers from bigger clubs?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Poor teams going down from this Div. Big teams going down from the Prem with money coming from Sky. Would love to see who goes up from this Div. and who goes down from the Prem before we have an idea on next season.

Southampton and Reading seem to be pulling clear at the top-West Ham're faltering big time which would suggest that the top 2 should be certainties; the play-offs as ever are anyone's guess. Relegation wise, Wolves are at the point of no return, leaving it to be 2 from Villa, Wigan, QPR, Blackburn and Bolton; all of whom should have the muscle to get out of this league without too much hassle.

 

[Astute]

The thing is, that is assuming that Thorn will get loads of job offers from bigger clubs?

Who said bigger clubs? More of someone reading what wasn't written, unless you count Chelsea as a serious comment.

I have however seen where it has been said a club that is willing to give a little backing to a manager, not sell whoever can be sold for the most.

 

[Astute]

Southampton and Reading seem to be pulling clear at the top-West Ham're faltering big time which would suggest that the top 2 should be certainties; the play-offs as ever are anyone's guess. Relegation wise, Wolves are at the point of no return, leaving it to be 2 from Villa, Wigan, QPR, Blackburn and Bolton; all of whom should have the muscle to get out of this league without too much hassle.

Seem to yes, but long way to go still. We seem safe, but nothing is decided yet.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Personally I dont think leaving is entering AT's thought processes. Quite rightly he is entirely focussed on this season and staying up in this division. So with respect I dont think we need to be worrying about it just now either.

That said I think (a) the guy loves being here and realises he still has a lot to learn (b) the support he receives from most of the fans is invaluable to him (c) the club are not in the financial position to bring in a top name so why change if we stay up (d) are there teams looking at him in the first place - would he want to go to those teams even for more money if they were(e) AT is renown for not giving in or walking away from things - why would he do either considering the work and effort he has put in (f) he might be aware of more financial info than we are and know better what could happen in the summer (g) if we go down his market value could easily go down not up (h) there are plenty of unemployed managers around (i) I think AT and TF have a much better working relationship than previous members of the board - perhaps better the devils you know ? I do not think he will go - certainly not from choice anyway

hope that puts some peoples fears to rest in some ways. Personally I take a more pragmatic view - players, managers, staff move on what matters long term is that we have a club and all that entails (manager, players, finances etc ) Not going to get worried by it.

As for Appleton - the difference in character, dignity, humility and ethics to AT is like chalk and cheese. I am neither AT lover or hater but you have to give AT credit for the way he has conducted himself. He has not once complained about his lot, he has made mistakes (he is human after all), it has cost us but it is clear he has learnt from them, he hasn't sought to blame all and sundry (a few badly chosen sound bites imo but i think that can be understood as managerial inexperience and be forgiven), he isnt the greatest interviewee but he gives it as he honestly sees it, he has backed himself quietly working extremely hard for the cause. Whether you hate or love AT (i do so dislike such categorisations) you have to admit he has given it his all and is streets ahead in terms of character to managers like Appleton.

We havent achieved anything yet - what i liked in AT's interview is the last part where he refers to expectations - I dont think AT ever considered we were not good enough to stay up. I hope he is right and having doubted and still do in some ways then if he succeeds I will be more than happy to congratulate the big fella if he pulls it off. Will still have things i disagree with or question but its just my opinion afterall.......................... to which i am entitled

PUSB

 

[Astute]

Just a small opinion I take it