The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (76 Viewers)

[Otis]

Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.

Agree.

Lib Dems are too weak now and we need more than just two party politics.

 

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[Astute]

There have been polls showing that Labour would lose millions of votes to the Lib Dems if they backed May's Brexit. Plus the Tories are clearly angling to frame Brexit being shit on Labour and it seems to work with the gullible general public.

Who said Corbyn should back May and her Brexit plan?

And would you like to explain how the Tories are trying to blame Brexit on Labour? Because most MP's don't want Brexit although most constituencies in England voted leave. And that is all parties.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who said Corbyn should back May and her Brexit plan?

And would you like to explain how the Tories are trying to blame Brexit on Labour? Because most MP's don't want Brexit although most constituencies in England voted leave. And that is all parties.

Look at what they're saying in the Commons debates, QuestionTime, media appearances etc.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.

No it would just allow the Tories to stay in in perpetuity

 

[Astute]

Look at what they're saying in the Commons debates, QuestionTime, media appearances etc.

What are they saying?

 

[Otis]

What are they saying?

'Can we all stop talking about bloody Brexit?'

 

[Captain Dart]

Agree.

Lib Dems are too weak now and we need more than just two party politics.

FPTP pretty much scuppers the idea of a 3 party system. While there is no form of PR it would probably echo the fortunes of the Liberals, up and down but only influential once in a decade.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

FPTP pretty much scuppers the idea of a 3 party system. While there is no form of PR it would probably echo the fortunes of the Liberals, up and down but only influential once in a decade.

UKIP changed everything ending in this farce we now have

 

[Astute]

UKIP changed everything ending in this farce we now have

Other countries in the EU have a bigger problem than we had with UKIP. The difference with the UK was Cameron wanted his votes back from UKIP. He offered a referendum if they voted Conservative again. In other countries the equivalent to UKIP have got a bigger vote or are now even in charge of their countries.

The big problem is those running the EU. Just about every leader of the countries in the EU have said the EU needs to reform. But those in charge of the EU don't want to relinquish their power. So nothing happens.

So yes UKIP made a massive difference. But the blame lies with Cameron and the Tories for this shitfest. And it will continue throughout the EU until the power is handed back to the countries in the EU and not those who give each other the jobs who want to continue with the gravy train that the EU has become.

 

[Ian1779]

And Tories 7 points up in the polls. Insane

Yet the poll 2 days before said Labour led by 1.

I think we can safely say that the polls are telling us that no-one really knows.

 

[Sick Boy]

UK government promised Nissan $100 million after Brexit vote - CNN

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful

 

[Sick Boy]

UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful

That sounds secure.

 

[Grappa]

'Taking back control of our borders'

 

[shmmeee]

Hoped this would happen shortly after the Brexit vote but I can't see it happening now. When push comes to shove the Tory and Labour sittings MPs will be more concerned about losing their seat than being in a party that actually represents their views.

It would make things a lot more interesting if there were three roughly equal sized parties for right, centre and left.

There’s no such thing as “centre” though. It’s a myth. Take Liz Kendall and Anna Soubry for example, probably the closest of the two parties and have fundamental differences about how they’d run the country. See the mess of nice Tories and slightly brighter Greens that is the Lib Dem’s. Just ends up pissing everyone off.

What we need is the centre left and centre right to bang their heads together, realise they’ve lost the average man in the street and put together a policy platform which is radical yet realistic. That’s what Blair did, love him or hate him. Without that the extremes always come to the fore.

No big thinkers and no leaders in politics any more. No route to representation for working class people other than becoming a social justice activist, which doesn’t skill you up for leadership at all, and is repellent to most normal people. No pride in it from the new lot, just greasy pole climbing and shit faximilies of New Labour. And that’s on both sides.

It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.

 

[Astute]

UK ports to wave through EU goods without checks after no-deal Brexit, HMRC says

Interesting stuff can’t see how that leads to anything other than unhelpful

Similar would most probably happen the other side. Have you not seen what France says?

 

[Sick Boy]

Similar would most probably happen the other side. Have you not seen what France says?

Investing 50 million in ports and airports?

 

[Astute]

It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.

Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.

 

[shmmeee]

Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.

Once Brexit is done there’ll be an election I reckon. And it’ll need a leader in the same way post war needed a leader. Someone with a grand plan.

Sadly the reason Corbyn has won two leadership elections is he’s the only one with anything close to that, even if bits of it are mental and he’s mostly obsessed by foreign policy for some reason.

Owen Smith ain’t gonna rebuild Britain.

 

[Astute]

Investing 50 million in ports and airports?

Strangely enough yes.....

France to invest €50m in ports and airports to prepare for hard Brexit

Calais port boss expects little disruption from a no-deal Brexit | Reuters

 

[Astute]

Once Brexit is done there’ll be an election I reckon. And it’ll need a leader in the same way post war needed a leader. Someone with a grand plan.

Sadly the reason Corbyn has won two leadership elections is he’s the only one with anything close to that, even if bits of it are mental and he’s mostly obsessed by foreign policy for some reason.

Owen Smith ain’t gonna rebuild Britain.

An election should be the way to go. May said she would go after Brexit. But I think they will tough it out with a new leader and hope for the best. Could be best in the long run as if it all goes tits up they can't blame Labour for anything. Let the Tories start and finish it.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Meanwhile some are beginning to blink perhaps?

"Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise" - Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise | Reuters

"Negotiate" is the word she means to use I think. Properly now.

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[Sick Boy]

Meanwhile some are beginning to blink perhaps?

"Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise" - Germany's Merkel drops hint of a 'creative' Brexit compromise | Reuters

"Negotiate" is the word she means to use I think. Properly now.

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Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.

 

[Astute]

Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.

The one thing you constantly refuse to do is consider all sides of the story. How about a comment on France also putting 50m into a no deal scenario?

France also runs a 10 billion surplus with the UK. And they have been the most outspoken so far. Macron loves the sound of his own voice. But as we know he does back down when it comes to it.

France fears Brexit blow to farms

 

[Sick Boy]

The one thing you constantly refuse to do is consider all sides of the story. How about a comment on France also putting 50m into a no deal scenario?

France also runs a 10 billion surplus with the UK. And they have been the most outspoken so far. Macron loves the sound of his own voice. But as we know he does back down when it comes to it.

France fears Brexit blow to farms

We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can't disagree with any of your post. But one problem would be that I can't see May taking us through another GE whenever it happens. We could end up with Boris v Corbyn. I would want a third box for my cross to go in. None of these.

The best chance Labour would have would be to replace Corbyn. Or all I can see would be another Tory win.

There’s no way they’d have Johnson as leader now

 

[skybluetony176]

We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.

Yeah but if you see both sides of the coin street drugs are going to get cheaper because the market is going to be flooded, illegal guns and ammunition is going be cheaper because the market is going to be flooded and them nice illegal immigrants that no one who voted leave ever moan about are going to arrive in bigger numbers so everyone is a winner. If you didn’t refuse to consider both sides you would know that.

 

[skybluetony176]

On a side note of course the French aren’t bothered by a no deal. Some delay at port versus emptying the camps around Calais. There’s a win scenario for France come what may.

 

[Astute]

We are comparing a country putting 50million into its ports and airports to one looking to wave goods unchecked through its own.

So you didn't read the other link then. What a surprise. Or you did read it but you have a point to try and make as usual.

How about trying to have a debate on evidence and not just the evidence you want to put forward for once?

 

[Captain Dart]

Let’s see if the UK can come up with these ‘alternative solutions’ first. From reading that it isn’t going to be the kind of compromise many are hoping for.

A compromise by definition is something neither side really wanted but can live with.

* Not same as a trade off where 2 sides give way on something the other side wants in return for something they want.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

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Didn’t we pay £80m to Nissan?

 

[Sick Boy]

Now had this been a UK initiative...I just wonder how it would have been received?

"German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry" - German state ready to buy company stakes to protect core industry | Reuters

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It would have been ignored and acted as though it hadn’t happened?

 

[fernandopartridge]

There’s no such thing as “centre” though. It’s a myth. Take Liz Kendall and Anna Soubry for example, probably the closest of the two parties and have fundamental differences about how they’d run the country. See the mess of nice Tories and slightly brighter Greens that is the Lib Dem’s. Just ends up pissing everyone off.

What we need is the centre left and centre right to bang their heads together, realise they’ve lost the average man in the street and put together a policy platform which is radical yet realistic. That’s what Blair did, love him or hate him. Without that the extremes always come to the fore.

No big thinkers and no leaders in politics any more. No route to representation for working class people other than becoming a social justice activist, which doesn’t skill you up for leadership at all, and is repellent to most normal people. No pride in it from the new lot, just greasy pole climbing and shit faximilies of New Labour. And that’s on both sides.

It’s all fucked. We need an election just to hope some new blood appears that might actually lead us out of this mess in a few years time. Because fuck Boris vs Corbyn or even worse fucking Rudd vs Cooper or some shit at a GE in a few years time.

Frankly, some days I think Brexit is the least of our worries. Can’t leave our political class, or for that matter our electorate.

The centre just means cherry picking bits and pieces to appear more palatable to the key marginal seats wherever they are.

Anna Soubry is a Tory, her crocodile tears over constituents' livelihoods don't wash with me; her voting record says it all.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Didn’t we pay £80m to Nissan?

Which was entirely different. That was paid to a Japanese Corp to try to protect jobs already held...but there was uproar about it. This German protectionism...trying to stop foreign buy up of German businesses. And It has so far from what I have heard, met with indifference or just casual acceptance.

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