The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (244 Viewers)

[Astute]

And yet some other bias news sources reported the opposite earlier, having probably taken a line or two and highlighted them out of all context. The BBC is pushing their anti Brexit stance at all levels which is their prerogative I guess.............only I'm forced to pay for the privilege of their swayed coverage and that pisses me off.

It isn't their prerogative. They are supposed to be unbiased. That is why they are not allowed to get government money. They must be shown to not get financial gain from authority. That is why the 5m that the EU gave to the BBC was wrong and they were wrong to accept it.

 

---

[Sick Boy]

What?

I didn't know we were on the same lines as Germany on how much we collect in interest from countries that can't afford to pay the interest. We are as bad as them. So now when I quote a way of countries getting out of their financial mess it is the UK as well as Germany that would have to consider wiping out debts owed.

Yeah we’d be screwed, which is why those willing the collapse of the whole thing are insane.

 

[martcov]

Why do you have to try and bring this up again? You know that this was Selmayr and Juncker saying that they had done nothing wrong so there was another enquiry that said the first one was correct and that Selmayr should hand in his resignation. You also know that only 15 MEP's out of 518 voted for him to remain in his position. Yet nothing has happened. He got a position he shouldn't have got and now refuses to go with the backing of the others at the top of the EU.

Why not be truthful for once Mart?

Oettinger wrote the report against the report. That is their version. The first ombudsman report said ‚stretched‘. I posted an extract 2 days ago. The press release said broke. The final report now says broke. Selmayr will probably fight any attempts to fire him based on the change in wording. As Oettinger claims there is a change. That is truthful.

 

[martcov]

Rules were stretched? An outright lie. And you know it. Don't worry everyone has read the links and will remember them as it was only in the last couple of days. If you want to repeat your lies I will just put them up again.

It is not a lie. That is what was originally said. I think I posted the report ages ago. I know I posted and reposted the quote on it being ‚stretched‘. I also posted the rules where, in a case of urgency, they could bypass the usual procedure ( as May did by appointing her loyal lieutenant as head of the U.K. civil service ). In both cases the urgency excuse was Brexit. Now the final report has dismissed Oettinger‘s claims ( which I posted ) and says the rules were broken. This was done by artificially creating a case of urgency - according to the ombudsman, but not by Oettinger. So, Selmayr is still there and probably won’t go without claiming unfair dismissal. All in all a mess/ controversy. I am surprised that you don’t listen to both sides to get to the truth. I do, and because of that, you call me a liar. Which I am not.

 

[martcov]

And in other news Carney has changed his tune.

Mark Carney drops Project Fear as he talks up free trade potential of Brexit

Meanwhile Ford confirms project fear:

Ford tells PM we are leaving the UK placing 13,000 jobs at risk | London Business News | Londonlovesbusiness.com

 

[martcov]

Rules were stretched? An outright lie. And you know it. Don't worry everyone has read the links and will remember them as it was only in the last couple of days. If you want to repeat your lies I will just put them up again.

Here is the extract from the first ombudswoman’s report which confirms what I said:
„103. As outlined above, many citizens, EU civil servants, journalists and MEPs felt unease in the weeks following the appointment of the Commission’s new Secretary-General. The Ombudsman inquiry has had access to all relevant documents, as presented by the Commission. The Ombudsman conclusions following her inquiry are largely similar to those of the European Parliament as expressed in its Resolution of 18 April 2018. The Parliament expressed the view that the Commission’s actions in this case had undermined public trust in the EU, that they ran contrary to the spirit of those requirements; and that the appointment of Mr Selmayr was a “coup-like action which stretched and possibly even overstretched the limits of the law”. The Ombudsman agrees with Parliament that “the tradition of non-publication has reached its limits insofar as it does not correspond to modern standards of transparency, the Commission, the European Parliament and other EU institutions should abide“

That is the truth which you deny, and then call me a liar.

Öttinger had a right of reply. Which I linked to.

The Ombudswoman published a final report where she rejected Öttinger‘s statement.. on Monday.

She now says the law was broken because the case of urgency was contrived.

Selmayr will protest. I presume.

He is still there because the final report only came out on Monday.

Now, what about May‘s appointment?

What have I lied about? You were claiming Selmayr was a cover up before the final report and that nothing was being done about it.

That was a lie as the inquiry was still ongoing. Twisting facts and accusations against others. As usual.

 

[Ashdown]

The car companies all seem to be in a mess at the moment and for various reasons. Brexit uncertainty is an issue but I believe certain bosses are using it as an excuse for tightening belts. I think they are more worried about declining sales and relations in and with China than anything else.

 

[Grappa]

The car companies all seem to be in a mess at the moment and for various reasons. Brexit uncertainty is an issue but I believe certain bosses are using it as an excuse for tightening belts. I think they are more worried about declining sales and relations in and with China than anything else.

My goodness me, you have to laugh...

 

[shmmeee]

The car companies all seem to be in a mess at the moment and for various reasons. Brexit uncertainty is an issue but I believe certain bosses are using it as an excuse for tightening belts. I think they are more worried about declining sales and relations in and with China than anything else.

You realise even the mental fringe pro No Deal economist that Leave wheels out predicts Brexit will destroy the UK car industry, don’t you?

Jesus Christ, take the tinfoil hat off.

Vote Leave economist admits Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'

 

[Grendel]

You realise even the mental fringe pro No Deal economist that Leave wheels out predicts Brexit will destroy the UK car industry, don’t you?

Jesus Christ, take the tinfoil hat off.

Vote Leave economist admits Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'

Professor Minford is utterly bonkers - why would you think leaving a free trade arrangement will actually destroy the car industry in the uk when minimal profits are made in euro land?

Also what one thing would happen definitely and probably a second thing would happen that would actually assist the car companies as it did in 2016?

 

[Grappa]

 

[skybluetony176]

Professor Minford is utterly bonkers - why would you think leaving a free trade arrangement will actually destroy the car industry in the uk when minimal profits are made in euro land?

Also what one thing would happen definitely and probably a second thing would happen that would actually assist the car companies as it did in 2016?

Of course he’s bonkers. He’s a leaver. Didn’t your boss say pretty much the same thing?

 

[skybluetony176]

Brexit: UK has rolled over just £16bn out of £117bn trade deals

 

[Astute]

Yeah we’d be screwed, which is why those willing the collapse of the whole thing are insane.

I wouldn't call them insane. Clueless is more like it.

And it isn't a surprise when we have many of the general public that are clueless when we have MP's that should know what they are doing that are clueless with what happens at our docks. Yet the same MP's are still in charge of trying to sort Brexit. That is what I would call insane.

 

[Astute]

You realise even the mental fringe pro No Deal economist that Leave wheels out predicts Brexit will destroy the UK car industry, don’t you?

Jesus Christ, take the tinfoil hat off.

Vote Leave economist admits Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'

Would you like to explain how it would eliminate manufacturing?

If anything without a deal there would be import duties on top of transportation costs and unreliable journey times if what they say about the docks becoming blocked is true. Presently we buy much more than we sell to the EU. It would become cheaper to buy home grown manufacturing than from the EU.

 

[Grendel]

Of course he’s bonkers. He’s a leaver. Didn’t your boss say pretty much the same thing?

No he didn’t and the article in the FT the other day is far more close to the mark. Brexit hasn’t to date had any impact other than provide record profits post announcement

 

[skybluetony176]

No he didn’t and the article in the FT the other day is far more close to the mark. Brexit hasn’t to date had any impact other than provide record profits post announcement

Brexit could kill off entire industries, says Jaguar Land Rover chief

 

[skybluetony176]

Would you like to explain how it would eliminate manufacturing?

If anything without a deal there would be import duties on top of transportation costs and unreliable journey times if what they say about the docks becoming blocked is true. Presently we buy much more than we sell to the EU. It would become cheaper to buy home grown manufacturing than from the EU.

For the things that we do make, maybe. What about the stuff we don’t make? Tariffs also works both ways. What about our exports? How’s tariffs going to help our exports?

 

[Grendel]

Brexit could kill off entire industries, says Jaguar Land Rover chief

Yes an article from last October and even if Brexit was not happening JLR would be in exactly the same position it is now

 

[skybluetony176]

Post-Brexit trade partners ask UK to lower human rights standards

Project fear again.

 

[Grendel]

Tony has subscribed to the left wing version of the Express

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes an article from last October and even if Brexit was not happening JLR would be in exactly the same position it is now

I never said it wasn’t. I said didn’t your boss say pretty much the same thing. You said no. I posted a link showing in fact that he did.

So JLR along with other car manufacturers would be stockpiling parts, diverting investment and stifling cash flow right now if brexit wasn’t happening? For what purpose?

 

[Grendel]

I never said it wasn’t. I said didn’t your boss say pretty much the same thing. You said no. I posted a link showing in fact that he did.

So JLR along with other car manufacturers would be stockpiling parts, diverting investment and stifling cash flow right now if brexit wasn’t happening? For what purpose?

JLR is not stockpiling, investment is being withdrawn due China and a diesel miscalculation and the notion of any cash flow is frankly hysterical right now.

You haven’t a clue

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony has subscribed to the left wing version of the Express

Not sure what the relevance is with where it’s reported, the fact is they're quoting the pro brexit international trade secretary. You know the one. The one who said it would be the easiest deal in history. Now we have countries dictating to us our standards on human rights just to roll forward EU deals where the EU hasn’t had to make any such concessions. It’s hardly a good omen is it.

 

[skybluetony176]

JLR is not stockpiling, investment is being withdrawn due China and a diesel miscalculation and the notion of any cash flow is frankly hysterical right now.

You haven’t a clue

You’re not even aware of what your own boss has said. I don’t think you’re in a position to lecture people on not having a clue. Mr Speth has already confirmed JLR are stockpiling. The CBI estimate that 80% of U.K. businesses are stalling on investment at the moment. I took part in an online webinar on Monday for importers and exporters. People are stockpiling at an average of £6 per pallet per week. It’s good business at the moment for freight forwarders. Other companies are having to commit to investing in full load containers as opposed to RORO in an effort to avoid congestion at RORO ports. This is all being done by stretching cash flow, diverting cash flow and in some cases borrowing.

 

[Grendel]

You’re not even aware of what your own boss has said. I don’t think you’re in a position to lecture people on not having a clue. Mr Speth has already confirmed JLR are stockpiling. The CBI estimate that 80% of U.K. businesses are stalling on investment at the moment. I took part in an online webinar on Monday for importers and exporters. People are stockpiling at an average of £6 per pallet per week. It’s good business at the moment for freight forwarders. Other companies are having to commit to investing in full load containers as opposed to RORO in an effort to avoid congestion at RORO ports. This is all being done by stretching cash flow, diverting cash flow and in some cases borrowing.

Ok Tony you are the expert. Tim fisher said we were building a new stadium so I guess it’s happened.

Oh and it’s Dr Speth - he gets very upset if you address him otherwise

As I say you are utterly clueless about what is happening internally

 

[skybluetony176]

Ok Tony you are the expert. Tim fisher said we were building a new stadium so I guess it’s happened.

Oh and it’s Dr Speth - he gets very upset if you address him otherwise

As I say you are utterly clueless about what is happening internally

I’m sure Mr Speth would be delighted that you’re comparing him to Mr Fisher.

So anyway, back on Topic. You’re seriously suggesting that Mr Speth was lying when he publicly stated that JLR were stockpiling and JLR are the only vehicle manufacturer in the U.K. not stockpiling components?

 

[Ashdown]

Even if they are, so what ?! It's sensible to make provision. They won't be achieving this at financial risk just accounting for some early possibility of disruption........as I guess will the Europeans.

 

[martcov]

Would you like to explain how it would eliminate manufacturing?

If anything without a deal there would be import duties on top of transportation costs and unreliable journey times if what they say about the docks becoming blocked is true. Presently we buy much more than we sell to the EU. It would become cheaper to buy home grown manufacturing than from the EU.

Which rely in part on imported parts. If car plants decide it is more economical to produce in the EU because 450 million people have a higher demand than 65 million, then we will only have imported cars. A bit like Ireland.

 

[Ashdown]

Mmm, when you take out the French buying French and the Germans and Austrians buying German, oh and then there is the Italians you can just about half that number anyway, then reduce that by the countries not doing so well in the EU, so that's probably about another 150 million, leaving what 90 million floating buyers ?! Not worth the expense of moving is it ?!

 

[Ashdown]

I see the German economy is flat lining again, must be Brexit !

 

[Astute]

I see the German economy is flat lining again, must be Brexit !

Germany is in recession. Italy, France and Spain are also struggling. And they are gradually getting worse. Last year we were told by the EU that the UK would be the worse out of the lot. It either shows their lack of knowledge on the subject or they lied. I said at the time I thought they were wrong and got castigated on here for saying so.

We are still looking good for some sort of deal. The EU can't afford to let us go without one. Look at how much we spend in the EU against how much we sell. It is spread out into lots of countries I hear. Yes. But it is billions to all the biggest countries. And they are in trouble now. Yet these same people will say that losing the same value of sales of goods to us would be a major problem. Yet we are not in recession before it starts.

I agree it won't be good for us if it happens. But the only ones that are willing for it to happen seems to be those who run the EU. And that is only so they can keep a hold of the power they have.

 

[shmmeee]

Would you like to explain how it would eliminate manufacturing?

If anything without a deal there would be import duties on top of transportation costs and unreliable journey times if what they say about the docks becoming blocked is true. Presently we buy much more than we sell to the EU. It would become cheaper to buy home grown manufacturing than from the EU.

Assuming all parts are made in the UK. Which they aren’t.

Ask the Leave campaign economist, it’s his prediction.

 

[Ashdown]

Germany is in recession. Italy, France and Spain are also struggling. And they are gradually getting worse. Last year we were told by the EU that the UK would be the worse out of the lot. It either shows their lack of knowledge on the subject or they lied. I said at the time I thought they were wrong and got castigated on here for saying so.

We are still looking good for some sort of deal. The EU can't afford to let us go without one. Look at how much we spend in the EU against how much we sell. It is spread out into lots of countries I hear. Yes. But it is billions to all the biggest countries. And they are in trouble now. Yet these same people will say that losing the same value of sales of goods to us would be a major problem. Yet we are not in recession before it starts.

I agree it won't be good for us if it happens. But the only ones that are willing for it to happen seems to be those who run the EU. And that is only so they can keep a hold of the power they have.

Trade and industry bigwigs will lean on these idiot middle men in Brussels sooner or later and common sense will prevail all round. If trade deals can be forged in the past then they can be forged in the future. I still think the more spiteful members of the EU will try and protect their little cartel by making things as tricky as possible and therefore there will be disruption down to them but it will sort itself out.

 

[skybluetony176]

Even if they are, so what ?! It's sensible to make provision. They won't be achieving this at financial risk just accounting for some early possibility of disruption........as I guess will the Europeans.

It’s absolutely sensible to make the provision. Probably why JLR are doing it. Not sure why Grendull is trying to argue that they aren’t when A) they are and B) like you say, it’s sensible. Project denial I guess.