The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (150 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Helps when the media treats the Tories with kid gloves on the orders of Mr Murdoch

How much if the press does he own?

 

---

[Ian1779]

I am not a tory voter but just shows what a shambles the opposition is if they cant raise their game get the genuine public to vote for them.

You’ll never know what the public really want unless you take it to them. It’s no wonder that collectively the splitters all oppose Brexit. Amazingly out of touch with the voters of any party.

 

[martcov]

Ok. Myth is a good word. Myth is a story to tell a universal truth much like many of the major world religions creation stories. I’d hope if we were friends you could respect my life and Christian beliefs in the same way I respect you and your beliefs in random events affecting life and living well being a consequence of where you were born, your family and friends beliefs , the country you were born in and the age in history and your choices and abilities to work hard and persevere. I believe that Jesus was a real living person and that there is order in this chaos through god. I also believe that a life lived well in community and charity with those around us is possible with or without faith and should be applauded and loved. We are so much better as a people together than apart.

You seem to be a considerate guy, and I respect you for that. You would probably be good with or without your beliefs. But, I don’t respect your belief, although it’s up to you what you believe.

 

[chiefdave]

I just can't see how they will do it, 7 of them

They are calling for a peoples vote, while also refusing by-elections as they no longer represent the party or manifesto they were elected on.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most of their PMs have come from exactly the same institutions as Labour in education terms in the last 50 years

Rewrite history all you like but that’s the fact. The only reason there has been an increase with Mr Cameron and The Blair Creature is only due to the absurd grammar educated minister for education to make it a comprehensive cesspit for all but her children and most politicians

Which party has the most public school alumni as MPs? Which party historically has had the most?

 

[chiefdave]

I am not a tory voter but just shows what a shambles the opposition is if they cant raise their game get the genuine public to vote for them.

Don't think you can underplay the role the media plays in this.

We can all laugh at the bollocks the likes of the Mail and Sun print but people take it in. And while they are the obvious examples there's not many places in the main stream media you don't find a tory bias.

Just millionaires and billionaires protecting their own interests.

Unfortunately most people these days just take what is fed to them and aren't willing to dig a little deeper.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You seem to be a considerate guy, and I respect you for that. You would probably be good with or without your beliefs. But, I don’t respect your belief, although it’s up to you what you believe.

Ditto

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They are calling for a peoples vote, while also refusing by-elections as they no longer represent the party or manifesto they were elected on.

The law now allows a by-election to be called if sufficient numbers of constituents request it

 

[skybluetony176]

I am not a tory voter but just shows what a shambles the opposition is if they cant raise their game get the genuine public to vote for them.

Equally it shows what a shambles the Tories are when an opposition that’s such a shambles can run them so close in a general election.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just watched Chuka Unumma on C4 and one point he made that was very interesting is that both the Tories and Labour are parties that are a coalition within themselves. Sounds like there’s some more MP’s from both sides of the house to join them yet. Or not. Either way it sounds like we’re in for a couple of interesting weeks in politics.

 

[Grendel]

Which party has the most public school alumni as MPs? Which party historically has had the most?

Which conveniently swerves the point

 

[Ian1779]

Just watched Chuka Unumma on C4 and one point he made that was very interesting is that both the Tories and Labour are parties that are a coalition within themselves. Sounds like there’s some more MP’s from both sides of the house to join them yet. Or not. Either way it sounds like we’re in for a couple of interesting weeks in politics.

I personally think we’ve hit a point where centre ground politics is finished. Centre ground politics facilitated the referendum vote, and arguably contributed to a leave vote winning.

Ultimately, they have no policies and no real reason for anyone to vote for them. Just interested in securing their pay packets for the foreseeable future.

 

[Astute]

Helps when the media treats the Tories with kid gloves on the orders of Mr Murdoch

In your eyes maybe.

The media is constantly having a go at MP's of both sides that prefer to leave the EU.

Then the media is constantly having a go at Labour because of the anti Semitic allegations. Corbyns own MP's are accusing him of not doing enough. Should the media ignore this?

 

[mark82]

The law now allows a by-election to be called if sufficient numbers of constituents request it

Is that true? Have you got a source for that? Asking because I have a friend involved in the local party which one of the defecting MPs sits. They have been desperate to get rid (and they wouldn't have been the candidate at the next election).

 

[Ian1779]

In your eyes maybe.

The media is constantly having a go at MP's of both sides that prefer to leave the EU.

Then the media is constantly having a go at Labour because of the anti Semitic allegations. Corbyns own MP's are accusing him of not doing enough. Should the media ignore this?

You know that the process is controlled by the General Secretary, not the Leader. For someone so knowledgeable you seem to have this blind spot.

You saw the data - 20% of the cases reported were not even Labour members - are you telling me Labour have a bigger problem of anti-Semitsm than the Tories, or on Islamphobia?

 

[Nick]

Just watched Chuka Unumma on C4 and one point he made that was very interesting is that both the Tories and Labour are parties that are a coalition within themselves. Sounds like there’s some more MP’s from both sides of the house to join them yet. Or not. Either way it sounds like we’re in for a couple of interesting weeks in politics.

He was shit for us on loan so I don't see what he's going to do with Brexit.

 

[Astute]

You know that the process is controlled by the General Secretary, not the Leader. For someone so knowledgeable you seem to have this blind spot.

You saw the data - 20% of the cases reported were not even Labour members - are you telling me Labour have a bigger problem of anti-Semitsm than the Tories, or on Islamphobia?

Are you saying that the Tories have a bigger problem with antisemitism than Labour does?

Let me guess they do but the media says nothing about the Tories but everything about Labour.....

So what do you know about antisemitism in the Tory party then?

And why do you try and make out that there is nothing Corbyn can do about antisemitism in the Labour party?

 

[Sick Boy]

In your eyes maybe.

The media is constantly having a go at MP's of both sides that prefer to leave the EU.

Then the media is constantly having a go at Labour because of the anti Semitic allegations. Corbyns own MP's are accusing him of not doing enough. Should the media ignore this?

There’s also media having a go at those who wish to remain.

 

[Captain Dart]

Lol Degsy is back in the camp. Another nail in the coffin.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Which party has the most public school alumni as MPs? Which party historically has had the most?

If ypu don't like it - get off your arse & appeal to your fellow citizens. Ask them to vote for you.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[dancers lance]

Wow... I knew there was some Marxist ideologues, saying they are socialists, using the cloak of Labour to further their political agenda on this site but some of this shit is unbelievable.

 

[mark82]

Are you saying that the Tories have a bigger problem with antisemitism than Labour does?

Let me guess they do but the media says nothing about the Tories but everything about Labour.....

So what do you know about antisemitism in the Tory party then?

And why do you try and make out that there is nothing Corbyn can do about antisemitism in the Labour party?

To be fair (and not downplaying the claim of anti-Semitism) the media are mostly right leaning so will naturally put more stories out that put labour in a bad light. Only really the Guardian and the Mirror that are left leaning.

 

[mark82]

Wow... I knew there was some Marxist ideologues, saying they are socialists, using the cloak of Labour to further their political agenda on this site but some of this shit is unbelievable.

This labelling of relatively centre-left politics as Marxism is tiresome. Do you want to move the Tories towards fascism or Nazism too? People need to get a bit of perspective.

 

[Ian1779]

Are you saying that the Tories have a bigger problem with antisemitism than Labour does?

Let me guess they do but the media says nothing about the Tories but everything about Labour.....

So what do you know about antisemitism in the Tory party then?

And why do you try and make out that there is nothing Corbyn can do about antisemitism in the Labour party?

In reality - there is probably a balance of anti-semitism across the political spectrum, and the majority of this is down to 2 factors. First of all education - people who are making anti-Semitic comments through a lack of understanding and ignorance. Secondly - in the defence of Palestine, which you would largely attribute to those on the left of politics, which then makes out the problem is bigger in Labour.

The main intervention needs to be in educating people. I would suggest that Corbyn could do more here - in tandem with other political leaders.

 

[mark82]

In reality - there is probably a balance of anti-semitism across the political spectrum, and the majority of this is down to 2 factors. First of all education - people who are making anti-Semitic comments through a lack of understanding and ignorance. Secondly - in the defence of Palestine, which you would largely attribute to those on the left of politics, which then makes out the problem is bigger in Labour.

The main intervention needs to be in educating people. I would suggest that Corbyn could do more here - in tandem with other political leaders.

Hit the nail on the head about the defence of Palestine. This all really stems from the fact Corbyn won't cosy up to Israel whilst they are terrorising people living in Palestine.

 

[dancers lance]

This labelling of relatively centre-left politics as Marxism is tiresome. Do you want to move the Tories towards fascism or Nazism too? People need to get a bit of perspective.

I couldn't give two shits how you wish to define the Tories, I hate them. Now, you can say "centre left" as much as you like but that's bullshit, would you like me to explain, with facts, why I know the current Labour party is far closer to a Marxist Ideology than the founding ideology of the labour party (for the urban working man) I don't mind. Ok, I'll start.....John McDonnell quote from last year whilst speaking at a conference “Hello, are you looking forward to having a Marxist in No11?” “Marxism is about the freedom of spirit, the development of life chances, the enhancement of democracy”.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I’m a labour man I like chukka

 

[Ian1779]

I’m a labour man I like chukka

I’m a Labour man and I can’t fucking stand him. Each to their own I suppose.

He epitomises why People’s Vote will never win, and why leave would win all over again.

 

[shmmeee]

Corbyn went to castle house school in Newport Shropshire a fee paying propriety school in his early years and Mc donnell st Josephs a fee paying college in his early years

And my ex went to Leamington Girls. She lives in Canley. There’s private and there’s private.

In your eyes maybe.

The media is constantly having a go at MP's of both sides that prefer to leave the EU.

Then the media is constantly having a go at Labour because of the anti Semitic allegations. Corbyns own MP's are accusing him of not doing enough. Should the media ignore this?

If you think the Murdoch media (whichbis what you’re replying about) is pro Remain then you’ve been on this thread too long.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m a Labour man and I can’t fucking stand him. Each to their own I suppose.

He epitomises why People’s Vote will never win, and why leave would win all over again.

Find me anyone outside Corbyns circle who that doesn’t apply to.

Then find me anyone electable within Corbyns circle.

*Then* find me anyone electable in the Tory party.

This is why a goon like Johnson getting in seriously worries me. When everyone’s dull, people vote for entertainment. See Labour leadership contests, see US election.

 

[mark82]

I couldn't give two shits how you wish to define the Tories, I hate them. Now, you can say "centre left" as much as you like but that's bullshit, would you like me to explain, with facts, why I know the current Labour party is far closer to a Marxist Ideology than the founding ideology of the labour party (for the urban working man) I don't mind. Ok, I'll start.....John McDonnell quote from last year whilst speaking at a conference “Hello, are you looking forward to having a Marxist in No11?” “Marxism is about the freedom of spirit, the development of life chances, the enhancement of democracy”.

Ok, fair enough on McDonnell (I'm not a huge fan). He's also admitted to being influenced by the works of Lenin and Trotsky. Corbyn himself has admitted to not being well read on Marx. Let's remember Marx was a 19th century philosopher, I'm not sure anyone is going to take every word as literal in today's age. There's a huge difference between being influenced by the ideas of someone and having some more moderate policies in common and going to the extreme. All left wing ideologies will have common ground, as all right wing ideologies do. The extremes are what become dangerous where you end up with oppressive dictatorships (on both right and left) which infringe on people's freedom and liberty.

When most play the Marxism card, what they really mean is communism (and mostly Stalinism at that), so apologies if that was not your intention. I get so used to reading BS about how we would become a commumist dictatorship under Corbyn that I become quick to jump on it.

 

[mark82]

Find me anyone outside Corbyns circle who that doesn’t apply to.

Then find me anyone electable within Corbyns circle.

*Then* find me anyone electable in the Tory party.

This is why a goon like Johnson getting in seriously worries me. When everyone’s dull, people vote for entertainment. See Labour leadership contests, see US election.

I don't think people voted for Corbyn for entertainment value in Labour leadership contests. People voted for him because his policies matched their political beliefs. I'm a labour party member, and I initially voted against him in the first leadership election. He's won me over to a certain extent. I was guilty in the past of just listening to the media (I got fed up of reading stuff about being a terrorist sympathiser, etc), but many of his policies make sense (although I certainly don't agree with everything). The media smear campaign helped in the end as it made me research the real facts independently - as things got more wild I felt I had to look into it myself. It changed me as a person and made me question everything I read and fact check independently. What I found was a principled man whose voting record backs up what he says in public. I don't always agree with him, but he does stick by his principles, and he does seem a decent human being despite the media and the right trying to depict him otherwise.

 

[Nick]

Why does Corbyn have a MK3 astra?

 

[dancers lance]

I’m a labour man I like chukka

I'm think he's going "all in" word on the grapevine is he's going

Ok, fair enough on McDonnell (I'm not a huge fan). He's also admitted to being influenced by the works of Lenin and Trotsky. Corbyn himself has admitted to not being well read on Marx. Let's remember Marx was a 19th century philosopher, I'm not sure anyone is going to take every word as literal in today's age. There's a huge difference between being influenced by the ideas of someone and having some more moderate policies in common and going to the extreme. All left wing ideologies will have common ground, as all right wing ideologies do. The extremes are what become dangerous where you end up with oppressive dictatorships (on both right and left) which infringe on people's freedom and liberty.

When most play the Marxism card, what they really mean is communism (and mostly Stalinism at that), so apologies if that was not your intention. I get so used to reading BS about how we would become a commumist dictatorship under Corbyn that I become quick to jump on it.

Why does Corbyn have a MK3 astra?

Because that car is very personal to him, it was where the magic happened. Picture......a rainy night in Swindon, early 90's' he (the submissive) ravaged by an angry Diane Abbott, the smell of Hush Puppies, Jumbo cords, juniper oil and mung beans pierces the very fabric of sexuality as we know it. Thrashing against each other like two hermit crabs fighting over an empty Monster Energy can, the deed was done, as the last waltz and chorus played over the medium wave radio. Jez, being a gentleman and unable to drive, gave Diane the eleventy twelve pound she requested for the taxi home.

 

[Astute]

Ok, fair enough on McDonnell (I'm not a huge fan). He's also admitted to being influenced by the works of Lenin and Trotsky. Corbyn himself has admitted to not being well read on Marx. Let's remember Marx was a 19th century philosopher, I'm not sure anyone is going to take every word as literal in today's age. There's a huge difference between being influenced by the ideas of someone and having some more moderate policies in common and going to the extreme. All left wing ideologies will have common ground, as all right wing ideologies do. The extremes are what become dangerous where you end up with oppressive dictatorships (on both right and left) which infringe on people's freedom and liberty.

When most play the Marxism card, what they really mean is communism (and mostly Stalinism at that), so apologies if that was not your intention. I get so used to reading BS about how we would become a commumist dictatorship under Corbyn that I become quick to jump on it.

The problem with Corbyn is that so much is unexplained. MP's keep calling him out including my local one. One of the MP's that has just resigned from the Labour party is Jewish and she has made comments about him. If there is a terrorist group he will know those at the top most of the time. He has gone to IRA funerals but not innocent people who got killed by the IRA including children. He refuses to make comments about the deaths of innocent civilians especially children. Go back even further and you have meetings with a Russian spy. Most probably innocent on behalf of Corbyn but still unexplained. Or how about two people who also have links to the IRA being given a leading role in the Labour party?

The list is endless. Yet I am supposed to think he is the person to lead the Labour party.

The worse thing is I can't think of anyone who should be leader of the Labour party. It is the worse time for the party I can think of and I am not exactly young. I gave up my membership in the days of Bliar. And I won't renew until I am happy with the direction we are going in.