The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (140 Viewers)

[martcov]

How did you get to the point of over zealous commanders? So you don't know the history on something you are trying to preach.

So it was necessary for Germany to bomb our citizens throughout the war? I suppose Coventry cathedral was a military target. IIRC Coventry had about 1/3 of the civilian homes lost to bombs in 1 night.

You say you are from Coventry yet you are more concerned about what eventually happened to Germany. Yes the same Germany that started it all off by trying to take over the whole of Europe. And Germany would have succeeded if it wasn't for England.

Crazy. Madman.

I answered a hypothetical question and gave a hypothetical answer. No doubt the Nazis would have argued differently to you. That doesn’t make me a Nazi. It just means I know that they wanted to try Curchill for war crimes if they had won. Your post is irrelevant.

 

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[martcov]

Eisenhower, Stalin and Churchill agreed the strategy in 1943 to target cities. The US bombers did actually I think outnumber the uk ones.

The notion you actually believe The National Sociallst Party would have conducted legitimate trials rather than commit wholesale executatioms suggests a legitimacy of their behaviours.

It’s genuinely a fascinating insight into who you really are and what you really think

No. It is what they thought. A propaganda trial followed by execution. A bill for reparations as they were given after WWI.

That is fact, not what I think.

I am not the Nazi government and have nothing to do with extreme right nationists. You should have got that by now.

Those are more like the Neon Nazi high vis, Bannon and Tommy fans. Not my world and I don’t stick up for concentration camp apologists either. Unlike you.

 

[skybluetony176]

In terms of Dresden no I’ve absolutely no idea. Nice to see the German ally has landed though

That’s funny coming from the nearest thing we have to a Nazi on here.

 

[Grendel]

That’s funny coming from the nearest thing we have to a Nazi on here.

Lol. Ukip are not a racist party, monkey boy, GMK

 

[skybluetony176]

Probably not but that doesn’t matter to the likes Mart and Tony who spend 24/7 on here trawling for anything negative they can find about the UK and then liking each others posts.

On the subject of the Left’s attempts to rewrite history, Dan Hannan wrote an excellent article in The Telegraph last week:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/16/left-wing-slurs-churchill-part-bigger-war-british-history/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AsCjWylj8mb6

I’ve actually said I recognise that he’s not some infallible deity but just a man and therefore it’s understandable that he has failings as well as achievements, especially given the period in history he lived through and served his country in. I’m actually pretty neutral on this. I’m willing to accept he’s not infallible. Perhaps if you did some trawling yourself your reply would have some context rather than blindly following someone who try’s to justify the use of concentration camps.

 

[skybluetony176]

Lol. Ukip are not a racist party, monkey boy, GMK

Predictable. You’ll be blocking me next because you think it proves you right.

 

[martcov]

Probably not but that doesn’t matter to the likes Mart and Tony who spend 24/7 on here trawling for anything negative they can find about the UK and then liking each others posts.

On the subject of the Left’s attempts to rewrite history, Dan Hannan wrote an excellent article in The Telegraph last week:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/16/left-wing-slurs-churchill-part-bigger-war-british-history/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AsCjWylj8mb6

Dan Hannan is a liar and is corrupt.

Google him if you want something negative. Plenty there.

You don’t have to scout the Internet to find negatives onChurchill.

I went to school and I presume Tony did as well. Some of you seem to have been missing in some lessons.

 

[martcov]

On a side note my grandmothers brother was involved in Dresden and once he learned about what happened on the ground immediately after the war he felt a great deal of shame over it. Having watched a few documentaries on it it also seems to be the common theme amongst the airmen involved.

Some of those involved, both sides, attended the opening of the rebuilt Frauenkirche in Dresden. The old RAF guys wanted to do that. I think the Queen attended as well. Expect another rant from Astute who cannot understand these things.

 

[Grendel]

Dan Hannan is a liar and is corrupt.

Google him if you want something negative. Plenty there.

You don’t have to scout the Internet to find negatives onChurchill.

I went to school and I presume Tony did as well. Some of you seem to have been missing in some lessons.

I think you went to a German school judging by your curious slant on everything

It’s funny how you like to expose the flaws of a British hero yet when the same happens to German heroes their people try and hush it up

 

[skybluetony176]

Some of those involved, both sides, attended the opening of the rebuilt Frauenkirche in Dresden. The old RAF guys wanted to do that. I think the Queen attended as well. Expect another rant from Astute who cannot understand these things.

No doubt these people are disgusting

Patrons | The Dresden Trust

The Dresden Trust

 

[skybluetony176]

I think you went to a German school judging by your curious slant on everything

It’s funny how you like to expose the flaws of a British hero yet when the same happens to German heroes their people try and hush it up

Expose? I think Churchill’s history good and bad is well documented. Just because you choose to ignore one side of it doesn’t mean that the other side has been exposed. It was always known.

 

[Grendel]

Expose? I think Churchill’s history good and bad is well documented. Just because you choose to ignore one side of it doesn’t mean that the other side has been exposed. It was always known.

I’m talking to your Nazi boyfriend - does he call you Eva when you get together?

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m talking to your Nazi boyfriend - does he call you Eva when you get together?

You really are struggling to string something even close to an argument together aren’t you. I’m going to take that as an acknowledgment that you know you’re wrong and talking bollocks because you’re too small to admit it.

 

[martcov]

I think you went to a German school judging by your curious slant on everything

It’s funny how you like to expose the flaws of a British hero yet when the same happens to German heroes their people try and hush it up[/QUOTE

Someone else brought the subject up, and suggested, asked, whether, that Churchill may have been tried if the Germans had won, and you asked why?

I said what I know from school.. in Coventry.

Where is the curious slant? That carpet bombing of civilians is a war crime?

That Coventry, except for certain citizens, is world renowned for it’s work for reconciliation? It actually says that on the signs coming into Coventry. peace and reconciliation. Astute missed that.

Reconciliation actually involves seeing both sides and learning from it. The Brexit fans on here, and in the media, still think of wartime. We’re not at war. Most of the sensible ones among us have got that. Some others haven’t. I am actually a member of the successor organisation of Friends of Coventry set up after the war. They want to come on a goodwill visit this year to show that our friendship carries on even after Brexit.

If they only knew what some right wing nationalists post on here....

I won’t mention it. It is too embarrassing.

 

[martcov]

I’m talking to your Nazi boyfriend - does he call you Eva when you get together?

You’ve lost when you sink to this crap. You’ve soiled yourself today, and recently, with your right wing bigotry. You are actually intelligent enough to know it. But resort to low digs.

 

[Grendel]

You really are struggling to string something even close to an argument together aren’t you. I’m going to take that as an acknowledgment that you know you’re wrong and talking bollocks because you’re too small to admit it.

I’ve strung together an argument.

I think anyone who makes a statement that the Nazis would have tried Churchill for a war crime for a collective strategy from all the western allies without seeing the irony of that statement is clearly someone who is more interested in the logic of German analysts and not British ones - especially when he then suggests the Nuremberg trials were rigged and therefore illegitimate.

I also constantly asked what question was asked on question time and why as no one can answer it. The why is significant. There was no defending of internment camps (they were not camps where a single race were moved for extermination) but a sensible historic perspective. The point again is the question initially raised in its correct context was nothing to do with concentration camps. It was made because of a comment made by a certain shadow chancellor regarding a uk incident - so it’s not ironic to see someone who sees fit to criticise a national hero while standing proudly by an organisation which ritually slaughtered innocent women and children? That’s the real point

Then we have post war Germany and when it’s greatest chancellor was exposed via hidden papers to have been a “very enthusiastic National Socialist” the German view was it should not be debated as its long in the past.

Strange contrast to what we see here. I wonder why,

 

[Grendel]

You’ve lost when you sink to this crap. You’ve soiled yourself today, and recently, with your right wing bigotry. You are actually intelligent enough to know it. But resort to low digs.

I’ve resorted to your level. You’ve shown yourself as a sympathiser of the national socialists - other than your buddy you are finished on here.

I’ve always said you were a bigoted Nazi and now you’ve proved it

I’m glad you’ve said what you have. Now we all see the sick twisted monster you really are

 

[martcov]

I’ve strung together an argument.

I think anyone who makes a statement that the Nazis would have tried Churchill for a war crime for a collective strategy from all the western allies without seeing the irony of that statement is clearly someone who is more interested in the logic of German analysts and not British ones - especially when he then suggests the Nuremberg trials were rigged and therefore illegitimate.

I also constantly asked what question was asked on question time and why as no one can answer it. The why is significant. There was no defending of internment camps (they were not camps where a single race were moved for extermination) but a sensible historic perspective. The point again is the question initially raised in its correct context was nothing to do with concentration camps. It was made because of a comment made by a certain shadow chancellor regarding a uk incident - so it’s not ironic to see someone who sees fit to criticise a national hero while standing proudly by an organisation which ritually slaughtered innocent women and children? That’s the real point

Then we have post war Germany and when it’s greatest chancellor was exposed via hidden papers to have been a “very enthusiastic National Socialist” the German view was it should not be debated as its long in the past.

Strange contrast to what we see here. I wonder why,

I said what the Nazis said. Are you saying that they didn’t do show trials? They did. Are you claiming they didn’t see acts of the allies as war crimes against them? They did. Are you claiming they weren’t going to give a reparations bill? They were.

That is not my opinion. It was their intent.

I haven’t said the Nürnberg trials were rigged. They didn’t meet modern day peacetime standards, but were a good attempt to bring people to justice under the circumstances. A remarkable feat and praiseworthy.

The Nazis would have had show trials, and based on past show trials, they would not have met the standards of the Nürnberg trials.

Well I cannot comment on your Kanzler thing as I don’t know which one you mean. Yes, things were hushed up after the war and there are still things coming out now. But that is not what we were talking about and nothing to do with theUK debate on Churchill.

Which murderous organisation am I standing by?

And where did I criticise Churchill? A question was asked as how the Nazis would have dealt with and why? I answered how they would and why quoting their criticism.

Yes, he was a great wartime leader. No, he wasn’t perfect and was involved in big mistakes which cost lives, and in suppressing workers. So, you should take a balanced view and accept both sides. Or, at least that’s what I do.

 

[Grendel]

The backtracking begins

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ve strung together an argument.

I think anyone who makes a statement that the Nazis would have tried Churchill for a war crime for a collective strategy from all the western allies without seeing the irony of that statement is clearly someone who is more interested in the logic of German analysts and not British ones - especially when he then suggests the Nuremberg trials were rigged and therefore illegitimate.

I also constantly asked what question was asked on question time and why as no one can answer it. The why is significant. There was no defending of internment camps (they were not camps where a single race were moved for extermination) but a sensible historic perspective. The point again is the question initially raised in its correct context was nothing to do with concentration camps. It was made because of a comment made by a certain shadow chancellor regarding a uk incident - so it’s not ironic to see someone who sees fit to criticise a national hero while standing proudly by an organisation which ritually slaughtered innocent women and children? That’s the real point

Then we have post war Germany and when it’s greatest chancellor was exposed via hidden papers to have been a “very enthusiastic National Socialist” the German view was it should not be debated as its long in the past.

Strange contrast to what we see here. I wonder why,

So you’re seriously saying that the Nazi’s, a dictatorship that manufactured a reason to exterminate millions of Jews without cause in no way would have found a way to prosecute Churchill? Maybe they would have let Starlin off with a wag of the finger telling him he’s a cheeky scamp. You’re presumptions that the Nazi’s wouldn’t have sought retribution to their enemies had they won the war is laughable.

The question is irrelevant. There’s no justification for the concentration camps in South Africa. Did you look at the pictures in the link I provided? Justify the scenes in those pictures. I challenge you to do that. Justify the scorched earth policy that led to them, justify the salting of land and poisoning of wells to deliberately starve people. Justify the deliberate starving of women and children in the camps, justify deliberately not treating disease in the camps. Explain to me how just because John McDonald said Churchill is a villain that means the camps are justified and anyone who disagrees is a Nazi.

 

[martcov]

The backtracking begins

How? I answered the question that he would be put on trial. That the bombing of civilians would be a major point that they would try him on, and bomber Harris.

 

[martcov]

I’ve resorted to your level. You’ve shown yourself as a sympathiser of the national socialists - other than your buddy you are finished on here.

I’ve always said you were a bigoted Nazi and now you’ve proved it

I’m glad you’ve said what you have. Now we all see the sick twisted monster you really are

Lucky for you that this is anonymous and we are not in Germany. I could sue the arse of you if we were.

You are one of the most right wing bigoted posters on here. You constantly get your history „confused“. Your lack of knowledge on some European matters is embarrassing.

Now you have made an unfounded accusation against me. Which I would get you for ( legally ) if it were possible.

And all because your bigotry and sick apologies for concentration camps on behalf of Lord Snooty a well known Brexit bullshitter. No mate, anyone reading this thread will see you for the right wing tosser that you are. Some on your low level will probably praise you for your stupid comments. Whatever turns you on.

 

[Grendel]

Lucky for you that this is anonymous and we are not in Germany. I could sue the arse of you if we were.

You are one of the most right wing bigoted posters on here. You constantly get your history „confused“. Your lack of knowledge on some European matters is embarrassing.

Now you have made an unfounded accusation against me. Which I would get you for ( legally ) if it were possible.

And all because your bigotry and sick apologies for concentration camps on behalf of Lord Snooty a well known Brexit bullshitter. No mate, anyone reading this thread will see you for the right wing tosser that you are. Some on your low level will probably praise you for your stupid comments. Whatever turns you on.

So you could sue the arse off me for calling you a national socialist but you can call me a racist a Nazi a c**t - man you truly are on form today

 

[martcov]

So you could sue the arse off me for calling you a national socialist but you can call me a racist a Nazi a c**t - man you truly are on form today

I haven’t called you a Nazi or a racist. Maybe a cxxt though. And claiming someone is a Nazi here is sueable. I think your memory is going.

 

[martcov]

Anyway.. back to the present day.. 18 countries have now objected to us rolling over our EU WTO terms. More bad news. No I didn’t scour the Internet in the hope of finding bad Brexit news. It just pours in every day. Awaits another rant about being a traitor.

 

[Astute]

Where the absolute fuck is it written that commenting on one action means you approve of another?

I will tell you exactly. Mart always attacks England. He is after seeing Churchill being seen as a war criminal. And as usual you arrive to defend him. And you also miss certain lines from me in defence of someone who acts an absolute twat because of Brexit?

So do you want Churchill seen as a war criminal because we bombed some cities in Germany? Most probably not. But let's ignore the innocent people murdered and aim it at Churchill because Mart says so.

It is absolutely disgusting to come out with crap like this. I thought this thread couldn't go lower. But I have been proven wrong. Then someone like you comes along to back him up with a comment. Well done.

 

[Astute]

What? You fxxking bigot. You are implying you are for the mass bombing of civilians. Go fxxk yourself you right wing bigot.

You have a go at England for bombing Germany and strangely enough never mentioned the mass murder caused and perpetrated by Germany. You are a pathetic little creature.

 

[Astute]

Churchill was our wartime leader. They would have done the same we did. Arrest the leaders and charge them with war crimes.

Or do you think they would have bestowed Churchill with honours?

Priceless. You’ve shown your true right wing colours. As you did trying to deflect from Rees Mogg claiming that we invented concentration camps in the Boer War to be nice to the people whose farms and livestock we had destroyed. That a quarter died, mainly women and children was just bad luck.

All part of the current claims about plucky Brits and how exceptional we are. We aren’t. Some of us good people, but there a lot of tossers in our population. As can be seen from the Brexit debate.

Latest dumb embarrassment for the UK. The foreign minister claiming that Slovenia was a Russian Vassal state. Even mixed up the nationality of his wife whilst in Japan.

Shows the lack of general knowledge in the UK. ( the wife bit was just his own stupidity),

Germans were done for MURDER of innocent people. They MURDERED millions of innocent civilians.

 

[Astute]

Anyway.. back to the present day.. 18 countries have now objected to us rolling over our EU WTO terms. More bad news. No I didn’t scour the Internet in the hope of finding bad Brexit news. It just pours in every day. Awaits another rant about being a traitor.

You are not a traitor. Just a pathetic little creature who has lived in Germany most of his life and always defends Germany while constantly having a go at the UK and England

 

[Astute]

Pity it went over your thick bigoted skull. I was asked what if the Germans had won. Read the fxxking post you clown.

If Germany would have won?

At best all Jews would have been exterminated and we would have been speaking German if we were not all exterminated.

 

[martcov]

If Germany would have won?

At best all Jews would have been exterminated and we would have been speaking German if we were not all exterminated.

Maybe, but that wasn’t the question asked.

 

[skybluetony176]

Germans were done for MURDER of innocent people. They MURDERED millions of innocent civilians.

No need to shout. No one is questioning what Nazi Germany did. It’s well documented. As is Britain’s actions in the Boer Wars. Not our proudest moment but not an excuse to brush it under the carpet like some sort of holocaust denier just because it’s Britain. It happened, Churchill had a hand in it, deal with it like an adult. The man isn’t infallible and therefore prone to achieving good or bad the same as anyone.

 

[martcov]

You are not a traitor. Just a pathetic little creature who has lived in Germany most of his life and always defends Germany while constantly having a go at the UK and England

Absolute bollocks. Someone asked a question specifically about Germany and the Nazis. Has nothing to do with defending present day Germany. As for having a go at the UK, the second question was why would they try Churchill. Because of the bombing of civilians by the RAF, especially Dresden. Loads of people in the UK didn’t agree with that, and the Queen was even at the reconsecration of the Frauenkirche along with some RAF aircrew who took part. It was a gesture of reconciliation. Are you saying the Queen should not have gone as it looks like people are having a go at the UK?

 

[martcov]

Germans were done for MURDER of innocent people. They MURDERED millions of innocent civilians.

Yes, but what has that to do with the question about Churchill?

 

[martcov]

You have a go at England for bombing Germany and strangely enough never mentioned the mass murder caused and perpetrated by Germany. You are a pathetic little creature.

The question was not about mass murder by the Germans. It was hypothetical about Churchill. Read the question.