Whilst there are concerns, there are also EU elections every 5 years. The EU council is composed of people who stand for elections every few years. The EU doesn’t replace countries own government for law making. Countries are not restricted to minimum standards, but having minimum standards creates a more equal Europe. The EU is about creating a Europe without wars and where all Europeans have protected minimum rights.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Whilst there are concerns, there are also EU elections every 5 years. The EU council is composed of people who stand for elections every few years. The EU doesn’t replace countries own government for law making. Countries are not restricted to minimum standards, but having minimum standards creates a more equal Europe. The EU is about creating a Europe without wars and where all Europeans have protected minimum rights.
I feel like the UK has endured worse than leaving the European Union.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Fundamentally flawed representation mep to population ratios.
Still the issue of how policies can be universally relevant over a large and diverse cultural and geographical spectrum.
EU commission appointed not elected. The Commission initiates legislation and implements it if passed.
Council of Europe is 28 members - 1 per country regardless of population. Members not elected by selected by ruling parties to represent them. Has many formats eg agricultural Council would tend to the 28 agricultural ministers from each country etc.
European Council is the 28 prime ministers plus 2 non-elected members. Can set policy but not legislation.
Of course European Parliament sets laws that can supercede national law in many areas. Much the same as the ECJ can overrule national courts in certain areas.
One of the first issues with the Ricoh was use of state aid and whether it broke EU laws.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
You tried to blame the JLR problems on Brexit. You said you didn't. But the quote from CVD shows that you blamed Brexit on JLR problems. Would you like more quotes?
So where have I said you blame everything on Brexit?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Back from your flounce?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It was originally Ralf Speth who said that the three day week and other things happening at JLR had something to do with Brexit.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Flounce?
As I said was bored waiting for the kids and wife to get up. Made the mistake of looking at this thread. Saw lots of insults then the usual false information.
Isn't it amazing how you pick someone up straight away at the slightest insult or the slightest misinformation if they don't agree with everything you say but if they agree with everything you say you don't mind them constantly swearing, big insults and massive misinformation (And this is being polite)
Then some call it a debate.
No but a kick in the bollocks does not mean 'the end' of either the UK or in fact your bollocks.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Good for Ralf. Please also put doctor before his name. One could say it’s an excuse for his own abysmal failings of course - I guess we will have to see what the ultimate judgment is on that
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
He kept you in a job while you spend your working days on here so I guess it’s only fair his judgment is called into question.
tisza
Well-Known Member
I am not going to go down this rabbit hole. CD understood it differently, but, anyway, my latest comment was about the German car industry no where in sight to bully Merkel to give in to UK demands.
Not as you describe it and you only quote half the truth. But, I am not going down that rabbit hole either.
No. People‘s vote is the only way to see what the country now wants. Brexit has floundered.
We will see what happens, but the longer the uncertainty goes on, the worse it will get.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I’ve been sworn at and abused by leavers and I don’t remember you saying anything, weird that.
Westendlad
Well-Known Member
Pointless vote this evening......Means sod all.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Brexit as such has not floundered. The lack of a clear plan that satisfies enough vested parties has failed.
Still nowhere near a parliamentary majority for a 2nd referendum.
If you think now is a mess the battle (if there was a 2nd referendum) would be far uglier and more divisive then anything we've seen before in British politics.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Slip and slide. Did May learn her trade from you?
Deliberately so
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is left?
Mays deal or no deal? Not now.
The EU doesn't look to want to offer anything. So no other deal is on the table. So all that is on the table is the May deal. To extend article 50 every leader in the EU must agree. It just takes one to say no for no extension to happen. Not leaving without a deal isn't a legal entity. But they won't go against it willingly.
So while May is MP I can't see anything else happening.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Ever been called a c**t or a wanker on here ?
By a remainer?
You may be right that it will be ugly, but crashing the country and putting ourselves at the mercy of the USA is a worse scenario. Every country now knows that we are a distressed trading partner. Farage‘s bullshit about „our friends speak English“ ended with the comment „utter bollocks“ from Australia.
That is what Brexit has turned out to be. No tangible benefits, but plenty of potential problems. Utter bollocks.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Qualify that No by saying deal won't go through by March 31st.
Lot of reshuffling will happen. The large block of no deal brexiteers will have to reexamine their position.
Also a large number of labour mps who support Brexit will have to work out their positions.
Corbyns own position as a Brexiteer will come under pressure if EU insist there is no further room for change.
Maybe a new PM could force it through but even now a leadership battle would wreak internal havoc on the Conservative party whilst moving it nowhere a solution.
The EU will only extend article 50 if there is a purpose. People‘s vote would get an extension.
I don’t think so. There was never a plan and there is still no agreement as to how we leave. How could that ever work?
tisza
Well-Known Member
Absolutely no evidence for these types of remain statements. As incendiary as some of the pro Brexit rhetoric.
No one can make such sweeping statements. No matter what type of Brexit there may be there is no solid evidence of what type of trade deals would happen with Britain and the EU, USA or other trade blocks.
All sides exploiting and misleading people.
There will be trade deals and other deals in areas of mutual interest.
There will be no crashing out. No deal was never an option just a theoretical bargaining tool.
There probably will be an organised Brexit. It will cause pain on all sides but as always with trade it will smooth itself out.
tisza
Well-Known Member
No extension then puts a no deal brexit back on the table.
An extension until EU elections or even the EU Parliament reconvening possible. A 2nd referendum is unlikely to get an extension for 2 reasons. 1 the legal time requirements it takes for a referendum and that does not include any legal challenges to holding a 2nd referendum.
2 still no absolute guarantee how a 2nd referendum would go and also whether it would be the final one
The USA already listed what they want from trade deals.
The USA has massive agricultural production for example. I can see the benefits of a trade deal for them. An extra 65 million consumers. What do we intend exporting that we do not export to the USA already?
Of course at the end of the day we will have some trade deals. The question is what have we gained? We have international trade deals through the EU and we are at the table when it comes to defining the rules of the SM and CU. We have passporting for our financial services. What do we gain by leaving that we don’t already have?
Why should countries give us beneficial deals for us when they know we are out on our own?
At the moment we are not getting the promised 40 roll over deals because the countries know they can get better deals by waiting until we are out. This is not fantasy, it is fact. You can check how much of our existing exports are covered by roll over deals.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
It is looking like the ERG may win.
Unless an act of parliament is passed by 28th March to enforce a deal of sorts and revise the current legislation Brexit will occur without a formal deal.
If you believe the scare stories you may wish to stock up on loo rolls, get lots of tinned food and scream at your Doctor for a longer prescription.
Unless an act of parliament is passed by 28th March to enforce a deal of sorts and revise the current legislation Brexit will occur without a formal deal.
If you believe the scare stories you may wish to stock up on loo rolls, get lots of tinned food and scream at your Doctor for a longer prescription.
They have already said that they would back an extension for a people‘s vote. If a people’s vote failed ( for remain), with people being aware that Brexit is not what was promised, I don’t see what you could argue for asking again. The argument that Brexit was built on lies and a fraudulent referendum ( still being investigated) seems to be fair enough. With what we now know, to as ask for the voters‘ opinion seems reasonable to me. If they still say we want to leave, what can you say against that?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You may be counting your chickens there. Another big day in Parliament tomorrow.