It is allowed. Maybe I do.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (37 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
It is allowed. Maybe I do.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I have questioned this from the start.
Why put a remainer in charge of leaving?
As we all know I was saying about her playing delay tactics up to the end. The next May deal vote we will no doubt get will have run the clock down. Yet whatever happens the Tories will be shown to the public that they aimed for the wish of the majority even if it wasn't their truthful aim.
And now she has the official Labour view of needing to stay in the EU there will be much less of an obstacle of us remaining or having close ties to the EU if we leave in name. Most MP's want to remain.
I still can't understand how some think May is thick after she has become PM.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which is what I have been saying for ages. Yet I was supposed to be anti Labour for saying so.
He has been forced into a corner. Yet he seems to have put what he wants before what is best.
Leave. Both sides have done things wrong. But you cannot say they are equal. The leave campaign is still being investigated and there are serious questions still coming out. There is no comparison in the gravity of the wrong doings.
If both sides were equally involved in criminal activities though, as you imply, then the referendum was even more flawed.
That alone justifies a people’s vote.
Based on your past posting history... no. ;-)
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course it is allowed.
But it is the same views I have had for ages that you and others have been telling me that are wrong. So yes I was slightly surprised.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Go on then, name a viable leaver who’d have had support of the party?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Maybe.
Surprised the government don't see it as an affront to democracy to keep asking the same question until they get the vote they want, mind...
Astute
Well-Known Member
I haven't implied anything. You keep alleging differently though.
Both sides did wrong. Both sides lied. Both sides spent too much money. Yet I am only supposed to think of one side like yourself.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is that then?
Isn't it strange how you now agree with me when my views haven't changed. Yet you still try and make me out to be wrong or biased.
I don't trust the remainers in politics. I don't trust the leavers in politics. I try and sift through the bullshit and work out what is going on. You look at the leavers only. That is why you only ever get half of the story.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Name a viable remainer. Something could be said against all of them. But none of this doesn't mean that May is or isn't after any certain solution to this shitstorm.
A lot of the time we agree actually, or at least are not totally against each other, but you misunderstand because you jump in too quickly.
We are not far off each in the case of the latest Farage claim. If he has done a deal with a neo fascist party in Italy to block a possible request from the UK government for an extension of article 50, then he is literally a traitor.
All these older people equating events to WWII and saying remainers are traitors, must really rethink the situation. The EU was set up after the war to prevent things like fascism ever taking root in Europe again. Farage has claimed he wants to break the EU, and is now working with neo fascists to do just that. The UK was on the side that defeated fascism. Where are the WWII comparisons from leavers on Farage‘s latest claim?
I think youngsters should definitely start reading up on the growth of fascism through populism instead of watching Dunkirk.
I have clearly said both sides, but they are not equally as bad as each other. Scaremongering both sides. Outright criminality: Banks.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
May was the viable remainer at the time
No. I am saying you have misunderstood what I have said and therefore think that I am totally against what you say. You just did it again when you claimed I only said leave did things wrong. I didn’t say that at all.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
There’s very little chance of half of the coalition in Italy being persuaded by Farage to veto the article 50 extension.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I was thinking that those who accused the EU of doing the same thing have been awfully quiet about it going on in their own country. Even if she loses a 3rd time I think she’d still try and hang onto power, it’s quite extraordinary
Astute
Well-Known Member
I agree but for two things.
Most MP's don't want Brexit.
Nothing else is on the table that a majority is in favour of.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
IMO a second referendum would see the UK vote to remain. At this rate I now think it could happen.
I agree, but his attempt to block the wishes of a democratically elected government by using a neo fascist party is clearly treacherous. I am surprised that the Italian populists haven’t fallen out with each other yet.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It has to be a second vote now, surely? Given parliament are heading for their third, they're losing their own argument about not accepting results.
The way out is to pass may's deal through parliament, subject to a referendum?
Haha you almost sound surprised. Drag the heels for long enough for a few more of those awful old people to die and a few more impressionable youngsters to attain voting age and boom.
Quite frankly I believe the country will survive with either outcome so I'm easy. However what does annoy me is the charade that has been played out since 2016. I would have been happier for them to say "yep nice opinion poll people but it ain't going to happen" the resulting nonsense has not shown the politicians and people of the UK in a great light at all
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Seems like too many are happy for the UK to be bullied (at worst...pressured at best) into holding another referendum - just like other nations before us, so that we vote "correctly"!
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Wonder how May answers her husband when he asks how her day at work has gone?!?
Also wonder if her memoirs would be worth reading, or if they'd just bang on about being strong and stable.
Also wonder if her memoirs would be worth reading, or if they'd just bang on about being strong and stable.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Seems like too many are happy to make nonsensical sweeping statement with no basis in reality.
As a true patriot, I want what's best for my country.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Every page would be the same as nothing has changed.
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Wrong as usual. We have agreed a deal with the EU. We even agreed to the back stop in the beginning until the DUP piped up. The bullying is coming from within the Tory party and from a handful of Unionists.
But blame the EU, it is easier than facing reality.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
And that would be?
Astute
Well-Known Member
They are as bad as each other.
But as you know I suspect that they both want the same result. No Brexit.
Normally a sign of insanity is keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. But is a different result actually the aim?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Having gone down the referendum route and tried to act on it (I agree, btw, that there were different approaches to the rhetoric post referendum) they probably need some kind of people's ratification however.
It's not like May wants to include parliament after all, so we're not exactly heading for consensus, regardless! Shed going down a path of shambolic division.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
One might use the word 'betrayal.'
Astute
Well-Known Member
There is no majority in any direction from anyone who disagrees with May.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
My view, which differs from others, is accept parliament is sovereign and has rejected the deal to leave, along with the option of leaving with no deal.
As May wants to push her deal through and parliament have rejected it, she should choose the democratic option of putting it to the people, if she truly believes in it.
To say I delight in the current shambles is lazy, backward, one-eyed and more insulting than any cheap curse words. Being patriotic isn't restricted to people who wave a flag and remember fondly the 3 day week, being bailed out by the IMF, and colonialism.
(No doubt the last sentence will go flying over some people's heads)