The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (94 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Seems like too many are happy to make nonsensical sweeping statement with no basis in reality.

As a true patriot, I want what's best for my country.

And so do I.
And I believe that going back with much humble pie is the worst outcome.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

---

[martcov]

We agreed a deal?

When was that?

The withdrawal agreement. It is agreed with the EU. That’s what Parliament was voting on. May‘s deal. Our parliament won’t accept it in it’s present form.

 

[martcov]

And so do I.
And I believe that going back with much humble pie is the worst outcome.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Yeah, but you blame the EU for the UK not having a clear plan and not being able to ratify May‘s deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

We agreed a deal?

When was that?

Really? What do you think it was that Parliament voted on on Tuesday for the second time?

 

[martcov]

Haha you almost sound surprised. Drag the heels for long enough for a few more of those awful old people to die and a few more impressionable youngsters to attain voting age and boom.

Quite frankly I believe the country will survive with either outcome so I'm easy. However what does annoy me is the charade that has been played out since 2016. I would have been happier for them to say "yep nice opinion poll people but it ain't going to happen" the resulting nonsense has not shown the politicians and people of the UK in a great light at all

Well, it was only an advisory referendum. The mistake was promising to enact an advisory referendum. They should have said, we will take the result as the wish of the people. Make a deal with the EU, and then let the people ratify the deal, or not, with a binding referendum.

 

[Astute]

One might use the word 'betrayal.'

Many will use the word betrayal.

Those who voted leave and not seeing it happen will see it as betrayal. Those voting remain and see nothing to replace what we have as a member of the EU as betrayal.

 

[Astute]

Really? What do you think it was that Parliament voted on on Tuesday for the second time?

Come on then. You want an answer from me. Try having a truthful debate and I won't ignore you.

What was this deal that we agreed on? What was the majority? What was the meaning? Why hasn't it happened?

So the DUP stopped a deal?

 

[Astute]

Well, it was only an advisory referendum. The mistake was promising to enact an advisory referendum. They should have said, we will take the result as the wish of the people. Make a deal with the EU, and then let the people ratify the deal, or not, with a binding referendum.

Should we push through leaving the EU without a deal in a couple of weeks? Because the votes last night were only advisory.

 

[Astute]

Seems like too many are happy for the UK to be bullied (at worst...pressured at best) into holding another referendum - just like other nations before us, so that we vote "correctly"!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I don't have a problem with there being another referendum if it is done right. The first one was voted for by people who didn't have all the details. Half of the details were lies and misinformation. Most didn't understand the difficulties of leaving something where they don't want us to leave. Most didn't understand the repercussions of leaving.

But how could another referendum be done right? We would still get lies from both sides. Would it be a simple in or out again? Give more than 2 things to vote for and you most probably won't get a majority. If only in or out what sort of majority would be needed?

The jokers we have in parliament can't agree on anything. How are they supposed to agree on what type of referendum we would be offered?

It would be good to see what the public still thinks. But my reasoning would be if we did have another we would have to follow the result whatever it is. And it could put us in a worse situation than we are in now.

The only good another referendum would do would be to silence those who say what the public actually wants without any evidence.

 

[Astute]

The withdrawal agreement. It is agreed with the EU. That’s what Parliament was voting on. May‘s deal. Our parliament won’t accept it in it’s present form.

So you are in favour of the May deal now?

Because you have been against it 100% so far.

 

[Astute]

Really? What do you think it was that Parliament voted on on Tuesday for the second time?

And you are in agreement with the May deal now also? Never thought I would see you say that after everything you have said about May and her deal.

 

[martcov]

So you are in favour of the May deal now?

Because you have been against it 100% so far.

??????????? Point out where I said that.

I am for another referendum.

I have said from the word go that Brexit was a stupid decision and that Nothern Ireland would be the biggest problem. There is an interview with me in the Internet at saying that.

 

[martcov]

And you are in agreement with the May deal now also? Never thought I would see you say that after everything you have said about May and her deal.

??????????????????

 

[martcov]

I don't have a problem with there being another referendum if it is done right. The first one was voted for by people who didn't have all the details. Half of the details were lies and misinformation. Most didn't understand the difficulties of leaving something where they don't want us to leave. Most didn't understand the repercussions of leaving.

But how could another referendum be done right? We would still get lies from both sides. Would it be a simple in or out again? Give more than 2 things to vote for and you most probably won't get a majority. If only in or out what sort of majority would be needed?

The jokers we have in parliament can't agree on anything. How are they supposed to agree on what type of referendum we would be offered?

It would be good to see what the public still thinks. But my reasoning would be if we did have another we would have to follow the result whatever it is. And it could put us in a worse situation than we are in now.

The only good another referendum would do would be to silence those who say what the public actually wants without any evidence.

Half agree, but you sort of fudge it at the end.

 

[Astute]

??????????? Point out where I said that.

I am for another referendum.

I have said from the word go that Brexit was a stupid decision and that Nothern Ireland would be the biggest problem. There is an interview with me in the Internet at saying that.

You said that there is an agreement with the EU that we should follow. Now you are saying that we shouldn't follow it?

Just shows you don't care about what you say when you are point scoring or jumping to someone's defence.

Look back at what you are defending. It was said that the agreement was stopped by the DUP. Agreed?

So the votes from the DUP were what stopped the May deal going through?

Of course not.

 

[Astute]

Half agree, but you sort of fudge it at the end.

Nothing fudged. You just don't agree with the end bit. But remember one thing. There are two sides to this. And both sides are saying the same thing. It wasn't aimed at either but both.

 

[Astute]

??????????????????

Exactly. More point scoring.

Either the May deal was scuppered by the DUP or not. Either the deal should have gone through or not.

But not on here. To people like yourself it is a stick to beat others with until it looks good to use it against someone.

 

[martcov]

Exactly. More point scoring.

Either the May deal was scuppered by the DUP or not. Either the deal should have gone through or not.

But not on here. To people like yourself it is a stick to beat others with until it looks good to use it against someone.

What are you on about? I haven’t made a comment either way. I have only said that the people should ratify any deal through a binding referendum. Yes or no on something tangible which you can read through and make an educated decision on.

 

[martcov]

You said that there is an agreement with the EU that we should follow. Now you are saying that we shouldn't follow it?

Just shows you don't care about what you say when you are point scoring or jumping to someone's defence.

Look back at what you are defending. It was said that the agreement was stopped by the DUP. Agreed?

So the votes from the DUP were what stopped the May deal going through?

Of course not.

??????????

No. I said we just voted on the withdrawal agreement. It was rejected twice.

Originally we accepted the backstop as necessary. Then May made a U turn because of DUP and tried, unsuccessfully, to get it dropped.

The DUP and the ERG are against the backstop. I have never claimed otherwise.

I have no idea how you come to your conclusions.

I don’t think you are a bad guy, but you do seem to jump in too quickly and misunderstand things.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Half agree

Both of you, take this as progress!

 

[martcov]

Exactly. More point scoring.

Either the May deal was scuppered by the DUP or not. Either the deal should have gone through or not.

But not on here. To people like yourself it is a stick to beat others with until it looks good to use it against someone.

I am surprised that you didn’t know that the votes this week were on an agreed deal with 27 countries.

That’s all. No point scoring. No using it to beat people with. No comment on the deal at all.

No idea how you come to your conclusions.

 

[martcov]

Both of you, take this as progress!

Personally I think we half agree on most things, but there seems to be a comprehension problem here.

 

[skybluetony176]

Come on then. You want an answer from me. Try having a truthful debate and I won't ignore you.

What was this deal that we agreed on? What was the majority? What was the meaning? Why hasn't it happened?

So the DUP stopped a deal?

Again. Really?

It was the withdrawal agreement that the government and EU agreed.

The majority of parliament voted against the agreement.

The meaning was the terms of our withdrawal from the EU.

The DUP didn’t single handedly stop the deal. The split in the Conservative party voted against it, The indipendant group voted against it. The Lib Dem’s voted against it. Labour voted against it except for 4 rebels IIRC.

And finally. Really?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Personally I think we half agree on most things

More progress!

 

[skybluetony176]

And you are in agreement with the May deal now also? Never thought I would see you say that after everything you have said about May and her deal.

Telling me what I think already. Twisting again already. I was starting to forget how simple life was when you ignore me. Didn’t take long to get a reminder.

 

[skybluetony176]

??????????????????

Baffling isn’t it. If that’s the vain he’s going to continue in he may as well put me back on block now.

 

[skybluetony176]

Fucking ridiculous

PM to bring third Brexit deal vote to MPs

 

[martcov]

Fucking ridiculous

PM to bring third Brexit deal vote to MPs

Best of 7.

 

[Otis]

Fucking ridiculous

PM to bring third Brexit deal vote to MPs

If MP's are true to themselves and it is the exact same deal on offer, they HAVE to turn it down and reject it don't they?

We are already looking like a laughing stock and May's deal has been heavily defeated now twice.

Nothing surprises me, but it will be ludicrous if this same deal now gets the vote and is put through.

 

[Astute]

I am surprised that you didn’t know that the votes this week were on an agreed deal with 27 countries.

That’s all. No point scoring. No using it to beat people with. No comment on the deal at all.

No idea how you come to your conclusions.

I'm not surprised you tried to make out that there was a deal that we should have agreed with when you are fully against it.

 

[Astute]

Personally I think we half agree on most things, but there seems to be a comprehension problem here.

We agree on everything that is on the side of remaining in the EU or having a go at the Tories. Because they are your views.

 

[Astute]

What are you on about? I haven’t made a comment either way. I have only said that the people should ratify any deal through a binding referendum. Yes or no on something tangible which you can read through and make an educated decision on.

You agreed that a deal had been made as though it should have gone through when you detest the deal.

 

[Astute]

Again. Really?

It was the withdrawal agreement that the government and EU agreed.

The majority of parliament voted against the agreement.

The meaning was the terms of our withdrawal from the EU.

The DUP didn’t single handedly stop the deal. The split in the Conservative party voted against it, The indipendant group voted against it. The Lib Dem’s voted against it. Labour voted against it except for 4 rebels IIRC.

And finally. Really?

So the comment wasn't that the DUP stopped it?

That was my point. But as usual any point I make is ignored by some and I am made out to have said something different.

 

[Astute]

Telling me what I think already. Twisting again already. I was starting to forget how simple life was when you ignore me. Didn’t take long to get a reminder.

OK I can see you are after an argument. Argue away as I have had enough. You have no thought of a debate.

 

[Astute]

Fucking ridiculous

PM to bring third Brexit deal vote to MPs

One last comment.

So I was right again......