Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Or back in reality there are millions of people who genuinely believe that the country is going down a path in which it is going to suffer badly.
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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (77 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Or back in reality there are millions of people who genuinely believe that the country is going down a path in which it is going to suffer badly.
Opinion polls. Massive march. Petition. In discussion in parliament. And you haven’t noticed a change in mood?
If it easy to rig the petition, why haven’t leave, who have proven experience in manipulating the internet, managed to get their petition over 0,5m?
There are controls. No major cheating has been picked up. Especially from abroad. Why don’t you sign the no deal petition multiple times to balance your theory?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
All of those posts about how easy Brexit would be and how the UK held the upper hand in negotiations seem to have disappeared
Well it's definitely been made harder by being undermined by remainers in fairness.
It may not be the biggest reason, or the main reason. Surely you cannot deny it's had a negative impact though?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
God, it's so desperate.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I saw some bird on Twitter had admitted to signing it 10 times.
Some people are so in the woods they cannot see how desperate it looks.
I totally get some are unhappy with the result and in their eyes want what is best for the country, but some of this straw clutching really needs to stop now. It's beyond embarrassing.
There isn't a change in mood, it's just that the Remainers have become more vocal and active........ because they can't abide the vote result. Just supposing it's turned over, what happens to the issues that pushed people towards Brexit.....swept under the carpet again as usual ?!
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
As usual, it’s the fault of someone else, isn’t it? Why can’t the leavers take responsibility for their actions and inability to deliver?
Or perhaps even admit that the promises made during the referendum were undeliverable?
Unless you’re a fan of Uri Geller and think it’s some kind of bizarre collective plot?
I‘d hardly call Brexit swept under the carpet.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
All of those posts about how easy Brexit would be and how the UK held the upper hand in negotiations seem to have disappeared
Well we saw how easy it could have been when the EU started to waiver when a hard Brexit looked a reality. It could have been very easy if the government wanted to honour the commitment rather than shadow box
Sign the no deal petition 10 times to balance it out. Lots are claiming that. All leavers funnily enough. There are checks and apparently if they find fraud they delete it. But, I bet some get away with it by creating new addresses. Still, both petitions are equally vulnerable. Why aren’t the leave hackers boosting their petition for no deal if it is so easy? Make that 5,5 million too.
In what meaningful way have the EU waivered? How come we don’t hold all the cards as we were told? What happened to the cards? How come they are now dictating? Do you think trade deal negotiations with the EU and others will go better when we are out? I don’t. We will be in an even weaker position. German industry confidence is going up again as they think they can withstand a hard Brexit now. Jus saw that on the news.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Letwin vote wins.looks like indicative votes on Wednesday
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So basically what should have happened in the first place is finally happening.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I've lost track of this a bit, to be honest I got sick to death of it and tuned out. Can someone catch me up on what is happening tonight.
There's a possible extension to 22 May if the PM gets her deal through this week but she's now said she's not putting it to another vote so presumably that's ruled out. How could she even put it to a vote after Bercow said they couldn't vote a third time on the same thing?
If its not Mays deal we have to go back by 12 April with an alternative. Is that about right?
What does MPs voting to take control actually mean? May has already said she's going to ignore them so it all seems a pointless waste of time.
There's a possible extension to 22 May if the PM gets her deal through this week but she's now said she's not putting it to another vote so presumably that's ruled out. How could she even put it to a vote after Bercow said they couldn't vote a third time on the same thing?
If its not Mays deal we have to go back by 12 April with an alternative. Is that about right?
What does MPs voting to take control actually mean? May has already said she's going to ignore them so it all seems a pointless waste of time.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
More tantrums, basically.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Rock Paper Scissors
Astute
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
Good news?
MPs back votes on Brexit alternatives
And here is the bad that could happen as I mentioned
UK urged to guarantee EU citizens' benefits
MPs back votes on Brexit alternatives
And here is the bad that could happen as I mentioned
UK urged to guarantee EU citizens' benefits
dutchman
Well-Known Member
My understanding is it's May's deal or no deal since the EU is unwilling to negotiate any alternative.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I can't see it happening. Nobody who is in a position to decide wants either.
The EU won't move because they hold all the cards now. No deal is off the table although it could still happen. But whilst it is off the table the EU can say what they want and backtrack making it look for the benefit of others than us if needed.
The EU doesn’t have to negotiate any alternative. They have spent 2 years negotiating and have got a withdrawal agreement agreed by the 27 remaining EU countries and by the UK.
No deal would put us in the weakest negotiating position possible when it comes to trade deals. We would be a distressed trading partner and have to take any old crap to avoid being stuck in WTO rules. No responsible government would put us in that position.
If the EU wanted to punish a country by expelling them, the worse they could do is to throw them out with „no deal“. To use no deal, a punishment, as a bargaining tool is insane.
Sovereign parliament takes control from weakening government. Sovereignty innit.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The EU hasn't negotiated. They have told us what they will allow us. No proper negotiations have taken place.
When it looked like a no deal could happen they said nothing would change for at least a year to allow the other 27 countries to adapt. This also wasn't a negotiation.
There are different time limits in different areas. There is not a blanket one year. They have negotiated. The EU is a rule based organisation. We know that, we helped write the rules. Those are their red lines. They offered us deals at the beginning. May turned them down and set her red lines. The WA fits in with May’s red lines and EU rules. May won’t move on her red lines, and the ERG and DUP won’t move on theirs. So we have an impasse. Now parliament has voted itself more power and their will be indicative votes on the agenda. Other ideas will be voted on which may break the impasse. At some point there will be a people’s vote on the agenda. A trade off: back a deal in exchange for a PV to ratify the deal, or scrap Brexit. Tom Watson has already said he will back it and he was elected as deputy leader by party members.
The EU has said that in a no deal there will not be a transition period, but there would be some leeway, for example for financial services, to avoid problems, but that is not to be confused with the transition period and would be much more limited.
The UK would have to negotiate a temporary transition for a couple of months to facilitate the change to WTO conditions.
I don’t know where you get a no change situation with no deal. They made the point strongly that there won’t be the transition period as with a deal.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m pretty worried if I’m honest. Can see no deal this Friday and we’ll be ok but it will be chaos for a while
tisza
Well-Known Member
A couple of things need discussing.
1. For a House some people believe wants to solidly remain yesterday's vote was far too close.
2. More leave options put up by Parliament on Wednesday greater or lesser chance that one will find a majority in the house.
3. Putting up a range of leave measures which have not been discussed with EU or really properly researched by Parliament is still a strange way to go. Smacks of desperation rather than responsible govt.
4. If you try and end up with a single leave option picked by Parliament vs. Remain on a referendum still falls short of what the electoral commission could allow as ignores all other leave possibilities ( would be boycotted by hard leavers)
5.govt still not bound by outcome even though in a weak position.
6.parliament still voted yesterday not to extend deadlines. Still hoping they can get a deal by April 11 but also aware if a leave deal can be agreed by then then they can still try and avoid a 2nd referendum. Let's not believe Labour will support a 2nd referendum if Corbyn's leave deal is the one selected.
1. For a House some people believe wants to solidly remain yesterday's vote was far too close.
2. More leave options put up by Parliament on Wednesday greater or lesser chance that one will find a majority in the house.
3. Putting up a range of leave measures which have not been discussed with EU or really properly researched by Parliament is still a strange way to go. Smacks of desperation rather than responsible govt.
4. If you try and end up with a single leave option picked by Parliament vs. Remain on a referendum still falls short of what the electoral commission could allow as ignores all other leave possibilities ( would be boycotted by hard leavers)
5.govt still not bound by outcome even though in a weak position.
6.parliament still voted yesterday not to extend deadlines. Still hoping they can get a deal by April 11 but also aware if a leave deal can be agreed by then then they can still try and avoid a 2nd referendum. Let's not believe Labour will support a 2nd referendum if Corbyn's leave deal is the one selected.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Triangulation. It’s not one data point suggesting Remain is the will of the people, it’s all of them.
Sorry, you and the hedge funds will have to accept you’re pushing through damage to the country from a minority position.
Still, I assume youve got funds betting on that like the other traitors, sorry Brexiters. You wouldn’t have been conned into fucking yourself over to enrich a few public schoolboys would you?
It’s almost like negotiating from a position of weakness doesn’t get you good deals. Whodathunk?
We won’t be ok as regards getting favourable trade deals. We will survive, but be weakened. Great. Brexit is really not in the UKs interests.
The ERG and DUP have voted against the government. They are not Remoaners. How have the remainers done anything? May drew the redlines. The ERG and DUP drew theirs. The Remoaners were not listened to from the word go. It is a Tory + Leave clusterf**k. Enjoy.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
We won't be leaving this Friday now anyway. At the moment it's either mid April or towards the end of May.