The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (33 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

Just came to see how this thread is getting along.

Mart has posted something like 15 posts in a row.

Nice

 

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[SkyBlueDom26]

expect to see a bounce in Common Market 2.0 - some Tory remainers that abstained 1st time to support it and even SNP are discussing supporting it as a group

The SNP actually trying to sort something out instead of bitching and moaning 24/7 fucking hell!

 

[tisza]

You have to have a certain income each month where we are planning to move to. That is why I am planning to invest money into where we are moving to. I am too young to be able to take my pension by law.

But if we started similar in the UK people would be accused of racism. It would be seen as a way of keeping 'foreigners' out. And it would be by the same people that say it is our fault for not using regulations that we could use now.

Certain income each month? That's assuming there's a Brexit? Normally in EU just proof you can support yourself for the registration period - employment contract, savings or pension are deemed enough. Permanent residency after 3 or 5yrs requires a bit more documented income/savings history but nothing onerous.
A piece of advice( if you know exactly where you are going) see if you can find a local bank which will let you open an account without residency just on your passport Makes things much easier down the road even if it is mainly dormant before you get close to moving

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s not about pretending that they’re equally capable it’s about affording them the opportunity to be equally capable. I went to school with a lad who was from a broken home and disruptive and you would have wrote him of if you had your way. In his last year at high school a switch flicked in his head and he knuckled down, aced his GCSE’s, earned a place in sixth form at a different school, went onto Uni and last I heard he lives in America, works for NASA and is quite literally a rocket scientist. In contrast a lad I started my YTS with was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, was academically gifted at a young age, went to Laurence Sheriff school, was full of entitlement, dropped out of his YTS, got into drugs and last I heard was sucking cock for £10 a go for his next hit. Yet according to you the latter is the one who should have been the one afforded with opportunity not the former.

Yep equality of opportunity absolutely right

 

[tisza]

Surprise, surprise Common market 2.0 may have strings attached that labour may not like, These refer to state aid which would affect nationalisation plans and even the structure of the new National Investment bank.

 

[Sick Boy]

Certain income each month? That's assuming there's a Brexit? Normally in EU just proof you can support yourself for the registration period - employment contract, savings or pension are deemed enough. Permanent residency after 3 or 5yrs requires a bit more documented income/savings history but nothing onerous.
A piece of advice( if you know exactly where you are going) see if you can find a local bank which will let you open an account without residency just on your passport Makes things much easier down the road even if it is mainly dormant before you get close to moving

Each country has a set amount you need to earn over to ensure that you can support yourself, I think this varies from country to country.

It is usually possible to only get a prepaid sort of card without residency, I think!

 

[martcov]

Just came to see how this thread is getting along.

Mart has posted something like 15 posts in a row.

Nice

Waiting at the airport, so I thought I’d look in. Hope to get to Bristol at the WE. ;-)

 

[tisza]

Each country has a set amount you need to earn over to ensure that you can support yourself, I think this varies from country to country.

It is usually possible to only get a prepaid sort of card without residency, I think!

A country by country basis on the banking.
Had to set up 3 accounts for UK cittizens here in Hungary before they applied for registration cards. Just needed the passports and a contact address - not necessarily living address. Could be a lawyer's office.
Don't know what's possible elsewhere but very useful for future residency plans if you already have a domestic bank account. Saves on a lot of paperwork.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Life isn't fair. But you have to make the most of what you have. It isn't down to the government to make a level playing field between the rich and the poor. That is unless you want to hand over most of your wages in tax.

I was the child from the broken home. I was in trouble at school most days. I frequently got the cane. I ended up going to 7 different schools. The last move was with 18 months to go. And of course I ended up with the others that didn't want to learn. But I decided to try a bit. I then only got the cane every couple of months. With two weeks to go I thought I would try learning at school and at home. I nicked text books for all the lessons and spent two weeks solid learning. I crammed all my school years into them 2 weeks.

When I went into school to get my results a teacher stopped me and asked how the f¥#c did I get them results. Didn't have a clue what he was going on about as I hadn't seen them. So I grunted something like 'what?' So he said it again. I just ignored him as I always did and went to get my results. I was easily in the top 5%. I shocked myself.

1, No matter your upbringing the child needs to want to learn.

2, The child needs to have the capability to learn.

I then had to go straight to work. I couldn't afford college. University was certainly not an option in the slightest. Years later I was working up to 12 hours a day up to 7 days a week. Yet I wanted to better myself. I knew nobody owed me a living. So I went into further education while still working full time. It wasn't easy in the slightest. But a few years later it was worth it.

You don't need a silver spoon in tour mouth when you are born. What you need is determination. Yes life is unfair. But if you just sit there blaming everyone and everything but yourself nothing will change. Everyone having a higher education means many will end up in jobs below their education. A higher education for everyone doesn't mean a better job for everyone. All it does is increase your chances.

Yep and it’s why grendel is wrong to say based on an arbitrary selection criteria this person is worthy of investment and that person isn’t

 

[Grendel]

Yep and it’s why grendel is wrong to say based on an arbitrary selection criteria this person is worthy of investment and that person isn’t

It isn’t rich and poor - it’s the ones who are talented and those not. Mixing the morons with the potential achievers inevitably drags everyone down to a lowest common denominator

 

[martcov]

Waiting at the airport, so I thought I’d look in. Hope to get to Bristol at the WE. ;-)

Bristol game ... not Bristol

 

[Astute]

Certain income each month? That's assuming there's a Brexit? Normally in EU just proof you can support yourself for the registration period - employment contract, savings or pension are deemed enough. Permanent residency after 3 or 5yrs requires a bit more documented income/savings history but nothing onerous.
A piece of advice( if you know exactly where you are going) see if you can find a local bank which will let you open an account without residency just on your passport Makes things much easier down the road even if it is mainly dormant before you get close to moving

Yes sorry for whatever sort of deal there is. But different regions have different rules.

France seems to be the same as UK. No need to show earnings when in the EU. But nobody knows for sure what will happen next as the future is so unsure. But the region I am planning to move to has a low earning amount you have to reach. As I have said already have family in France. Have got all the details from people who have made the move. Had dinner with an estate agent who has explained the whole process to me. And yes a French bank account is top priority.

 

[Astute]

Each country has a set amount you need to earn over to ensure that you can support yourself, I think this varies from country to country.

It is usually possible to only get a prepaid sort of card without residency, I think!

My sister doesn't have residency but she has a French bank account. Don't know if it is because she runs a business though. Might be like the UK and only be able to get a basic account to start with.

Seemed more important to work out if we can still move and what would be needed to stay. And then there is the schools. Private or not. Religious or not. How much help for my children. I took the bank account for granted as my sister has one.

 

[Astute]

Yep and it’s why grendel is wrong to say based on an arbitrary selection criteria this person is worthy of investment and that person isn’t

It just isn't simple in any way.

If you pay for your children to be educated your children should get a better education.

We have always sent our children to the local school wherever we have lived. The ones that have studied hard have got good results (my girls) Those ones like me (The boys) have done average/below average. The local senior school here is below average. But my 17 year old daughter did well. She did get invited to look at a local private school before she started there. It would have been on an assisted scheme. But she decided she wanted to stay with her friends. Most of her friends did well.

 

[Astute]

And Brexit in the Commons suddenly gets interesting

Naked environmental protesters storm public gallery in Commons as MPs debate Brexit

 

[tisza]

Norwegian PM to UK: Why would you want our EU deal?
‘You’ll hate it’: why the Norway option amounts to self-inflicted subservience to the EU

Can't see why anyone would want this apart from MPs trying to convince voters they have taken Britain out of EU.
As a nation don't ever see us liking a system in which we don't have a voice. Almost worst of both worlds,
Whether it's No Deal or Remain at least there's a voice.

 

[Astute]

Norwegian PM to UK: Why would you want our EU deal?
‘You’ll hate it’: why the Norway option amounts to self-inflicted subservience to the EU

Can't see why anyone would want this apart from MPs trying to convince voters they have taken Britain out of EU.
As a nation don't ever see us liking a system in which we don't have a voice. Almost worst of both worlds,
Whether it's No Deal or Remain at least there's a voice.

Which is what I have been saying. It is why nobody seems to want it. It isn't in the EU. It isn't leaving the EU. It is paying into the EU but losing the small say we do presently have.

But it is better than a no deal short term. And we don't know how long the short term is. Long term not the best and most probably the worse.

 

[Captain Dart]

Yep and it’s why grendel is wrong to say based on an arbitrary selection criteria this person is worthy of investment and that person isn’t

I've seen people who change their attitude change from being disruptive to perform brilliantly and brilliant people who can't do anything useful. I think the key is providing pathways to change as well as keeping the like minded together.

 

[Sick Boy]

My sister doesn't have residency but she has a French bank account. Don't know if it is because she runs a business though. Might be like the UK and only be able to get a basic account to start with.

Seemed more important to work out if we can still move and what would be needed to stay. And then there is the schools. Private or not. Religious or not. How much help for my children. I took the bank account for granted as my sister has one.

If she is running a business then surely she is classified as a resident? In Italy you have to get residency within 3 months, otherwise it’s difficult to do much in terms of bank accounts, healthcare etc.

Over here the schools and levels of education is much better than the UK and the exams much more difficult. The state/secular schools have crosses over each door, so that tells you a lot

 

[Sick Boy]

Norwegian PM to UK: Why would you want our EU deal?
‘You’ll hate it’: why the Norway option amounts to self-inflicted subservience to the EU

Can't see why anyone would want this apart from MPs trying to convince voters they have taken Britain out of EU.
As a nation don't ever see us liking a system in which we don't have a voice. Almost worst of both worlds,
Whether it's No Deal or Remain at least there's a voice.

It delivers on leaving the EU but goes someway to repairing the damage that has been done and meeting in the middle. It was good enough for Farage before the referendum after all

 

[dancers lance]

If we don’t leave, we save the country. Brexit has already cost us and all signs are that it will continue to cost us. We gain nothing by leaving. We are in a weak position to do trade deals as everyone knows we are a distressed trading partner. EU Migration has dropped, but ROW migration has increased. We have lost agencies and will have to replace them at our cost. The poorer areas have lost EU funding, with no absolute guarantee that future money will be directed to them. We lose frictionless trade with our biggest trading partner. We lose guaranteed rights.

We gain blue passports and a commemorative 50p.

For all this, we have the disadvantage that our parliament is clogged by Brexit and our country is split for the foreseeable future.

Ask yourself why do people hate an organisation that we are part of have helped develop, and during our membership of it have become the fifth largest economy in the world? Most people know very little about the EU under normal circumstances. Their main source of information over four decades has been the popular press or SM targeting.

Farage and co take a large amount of the blame for this mess, but are cashing in on it whilst the country is being wrecked.

Notice how Tommy was attacking the press and praising Trump. The British press is largely right wing, but he is following the agenda of the USA think tanks that support him, and of Bannon. The USA has nothing to do with our debate on the future of the UK, but they want us in their orbit, not the EU. So-called patriots backing the aims of a foreign power. Money talks.

I voted to leave, however, my reasons for voting that way had nothing to do with me buying into the rhetoric of the far right, (as you seem to be suggesting) I have been to the left all my life and when I have not exercised my democratic right to abstain I have always voted Labour. The EU is by far the largest capitalist organisation on the entire planet, they have used their power to allow multi-national companies to exploit workers for decades.

 

[Sick Boy]

I voted to leave, however, my reasons for voting that way had nothing to do with me buying into the rhetoric of the far right, (as you seem to be suggesting) I have been to the left all my life and when I have not exercised my democratic right to abstain I have always voted Labour. The EU is by far the largest capitalist organisation on the entire planet, they have used their power to allow multi-national companies to exploit workers for decades.

Personally, I’d rather be a worker in the EU than anywhere else in the world.

 

[SBAndy]

Personally, I’d rather be a worker in the EU than anywhere else in the world.

I think the response to this would be that just because the EU is the lesser of two (several) evils, doesn’t mean there aren’t better options. The fact that TTIP (and the other similar proposals prior to that) got airtime with senior EU delegates is concerning.

 

[Grendel]

Personally, I’d rather be a worker in the EU than anywhere else in the world.

Why?

 

[martcov]

If she is running a business then surely she is classified as a resident? In Italy you have to get residency within 3 months, otherwise it’s difficult to do much in terms of bank accounts, healthcare etc.

Over here the schools and levels of education is much better than the UK and the exams much more difficult. The state/secular schools have crosses over each door, so that tells you a lot

You have to be a resident here to run a business and work in it. You have to be registered and have a police check to get a licence to sell alcohol ( your sister has a pub ). You need a licence to trade and for that you have to prove you are registered. The tax man has to give you a tax number. She cannot be a non resident if she works in a country for more than 90 days in a year. I think you mean she hasn’t got citizenship.

 

[dancers lance]

Personally, I’d rather be a worker in the EU than anywhere else in the world.

I depends what EU country you are working in SB, I'm guessing you earn slightly more than the 4.90 Euro per hour average for a Bulgarian.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I voted to leave, however, my reasons for voting that way had nothing to do with me buying into the rhetoric of the far right, (as you seem to be suggesting) I have been to the left all my life and when I have not exercised my democratic right to abstain I have always voted Labour. The EU is by far the largest capitalist organisation on the entire planet, they have used their power to allow multi-national companies to exploit workers for decades.

I can sympathise with the sentiment and, if I thought we were anywhere near getting a left-leaning Brexit where we have state aid to help build up a manufacturing base, I might be with you. The prospective EU-USA trade deal was a decent reason to vote leave in isolation, with some worrying things within it.

Alas, we'll end up more right than anything the EU throws at us! Any trade deal we end up with the US will be worse than the EU one, and we showed no inclination to battle that from within anyway. All the (sane!) experts predict we'll be worse off, and we'll find ourselves unable to negotiate as equals with countries such as China.

Therefore... I'm in!

 

[tisza]

You have to be a resident here to run a business and work in it. You have to be registered and have a police check to get a licence to sell alcohol ( your sister has a pub ). You need a licence to trade and for that you have to prove you are registered. The tax man has to give you a tax number. She cannot be a non resident if she works in a country for more than 90 days in a year. I think you mean she hasn’t got citizenship.

I owned businesses and was a managing director in Hungary before I moved here. Automatically got a tax number even though I wasn't drawing a salary.
Know several others (Inc non EU) who are in similar situation and have bank accounts etc.
Lot of others have bought property for rentals even though not resident and have bank accounts to manage properties/rents.
Obvious point is it's a wide variance across EU. Key thing is to find a good lawyer who deals with it. Usually money well spent.

 

[tisza]

She cannot be a non resident if she works in a country for more than 90 days in a year. I think you mean she hasn’t got citizenship.

Thought it was 90 days out of 183 for schengen countries.

 

[dancers lance]

I can sympathise with the sentiment and, if I thought we were anywhere near getting a left-leaning Brexit where we have state aid to help build up a manufacturing base, I might be with you. The prospective EU-USA trade deal was a decent reason to vote leave in isolation, with some worrying things within it.

Alas, we'll end up more right than anything the EU throws at us! Any trade deal we end up with the US will be worse than the EU one, and we showed no inclination to battle that from within anyway. All the (sane!) experts predict we'll be worse off, and we'll find ourselves unable to negotiate as equals with countries such as China.

Therefore... I'm in!

I am of the opinion that we will have a far softer Brexit than most people think, I'm not sure how this will work though. Corbyn will never get the deal he wants with the EU even if he came to power, they will never give in on state aid, we are in a mess.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Bristol game ... not Bristol

We will have to meet for a pint a argue lol

 

[Sick Boy]

I depends what EU country you are working in SB, I'm guessing you earn slightly more than the 4.90 Euro per hour average for a Bulgarian.

Bulgaria only joined in what, 2007? I live and work in the Italy, so life isn’t too bad, the 26c weather today was lovely.

 

[dancers lance]

Bulgaria only joined in what, 2007? I live and work in the Italy, so life isn’t too bad, the 26c weather today was lovely.

Italy is a beautiful country, what do you do for a living SB (please don't say you won the lottery and spend your day's drinking rum from a coconut aboard a private yacht) I couldn't take it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I am of the opinion that we will have a far softer Brexit than most people think, I'm not sure how this will work though. Corbyn will never get the deal he wants with the EU even if he came to power, they will never give in on state aid, we are in a mess.

My previous support for Brexit was on the basis that I recognised the TFEU being incompatible with nationalised utilities (and soon to be railways).
That said, not sure now whether it's a price worth paying as it would require a hard Brexit. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I am of the opinion that we will have a far softer Brexit than most people think, I'm not sure how this will work though. Corbyn will never get the deal he wants with the EU even if he came to power, they will never give in on state aid, we are in a mess.

But then if we have a nice soft one (as it were!) then we stay tied to the EU, without any of the influence we have at present. At least at present we're one of the key nations who can influence direction. Leave in a soft way, and we let other nations influence our direction.

It seems to me soft or hard, all options make us worse off.