D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
In which case, you will know that what I said is correct.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it isn’t. Blair made specific remarks about a referendum - he only chose to backtrack on those commitments a year later
Grendel
Well-Known Member
And of course the heir to the creature was no better
David Cameron admits Lisbon treaty referendum campaign is over
David Cameron admits Lisbon treaty referendum campaign is over
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Who’d have been your ideal PM then?
Yes, I agree with some points. Just not quite sure why you separate the Council from the EU. The council is the power of the EU. Before, people were wanting to move more power to the parliament as it would give the voters more direct power.
Arguments on both sides.
The EU army is now basically an EU defence force with EU countries cooperating with each other to get economies of scale. Most countries have agreed to this cooperation. Ireland, for example, is in for now, but has said it will not necessarily commit to further integration. The idea is not to create another army, but to merge existing forces as a support for NATO, and to cooperate on arms manufacture and purchasing. BoJo said the UK would be a „buttress“, not a member.
I wouldn’t be relying on the US too much long term.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yes it is. Read the article you linked!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I have clearly read it
Astute
Well-Known Member
Is this the next extension that takes us past the EU elections?
May to ask EU for Brexit extension
Looks like Brexit isn't going to happen more every day.
May to ask EU for Brexit extension
Looks like Brexit isn't going to happen more every day.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Just been announced on C4 news Corbyn has apparently agreed to meet with May.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Fucking idiot! It's a trap!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s my gut feeling. Tory leavers blame Tory remainers and Tory remainers are now lining up the opposition to take that blame.
Rees Mogg is spitting feathers apparently at the prospect of the Tories working with “socialists”. Talk of a break in the Tories with ERG leading the charge.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Was he supposed to say he wasn't interested in putting his views over?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
He should find a way of not walking in to it.
She's going to stitch him up.
She knows she can't find a solution, she's looking for a scapegoat.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I would like to say people aren't stupid enough to fall for it but evidence would suggest they are.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I agree - but remember when everyone had a meltdown about him not meeting her.... including lots on here.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
'His views' or the views of his union-boss paymasters?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Some people on here make me laugh.
So we have to do something to stop a disaster from happening. Corbyn comes out with how we must keep close ties. May is said to be useless. Some say the majority is behind remaining. May needs the backing of some of the Labour party to get some kind of deal together otherwise the risk of leaving without a deal becomes substantial.
But don't do it Jeremy. It might be a stitch up.
If Jeremy wants a chance to become PM this is it as long as what some say is right. If they put a plan together he would have to agree with it. They would put it to both of their parties. And if agreeable it would fly through parliament.
Some MP's are giving up their careers in politics with their party for what they see is right. But Corbyn shouldn't take a gamble that could make him PM. And we all know it is what he wants more than anything else.
So we have to do something to stop a disaster from happening. Corbyn comes out with how we must keep close ties. May is said to be useless. Some say the majority is behind remaining. May needs the backing of some of the Labour party to get some kind of deal together otherwise the risk of leaving without a deal becomes substantial.
But don't do it Jeremy. It might be a stitch up.
If Jeremy wants a chance to become PM this is it as long as what some say is right. If they put a plan together he would have to agree with it. They would put it to both of their parties. And if agreeable it would fly through parliament.
Some MP's are giving up their careers in politics with their party for what they see is right. But Corbyn shouldn't take a gamble that could make him PM. And we all know it is what he wants more than anything else.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I am a union man. It isn't like you seem to think. Unions are anti Tory because Tories are anti union. We campaign for Labour as Labour stands for the working man. And we campaign for Corbyn although many of us know that Corbyn isn't the best person for the job. But he is the Labour leader.
Union money doesn't go into helping the Labour party to get favours. It is to try and get a party into power that helps the man on the street and not those who are rich.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I generally find that people who slate unions and protests are quite happy to indulge in all the benefits they've gained for the working man over the years.
If we believe the media.. we have the 5. biggest economy in the world and virtually no one is unemployed under this government. So everything must be Honky Dory. It isn’t.
For decades the right wing press has been blaming labour and/or the EU for the problems of working people.
The biggest problem from what I can see viewing from outside, is wealth distribution. The demise of industry with relatively well paid blue collar jobs, to be replaced by an increase in low paid jobs in Pubs/ Cafés, Hotels, Restaurants, agriculture etc..Together with the wage caps in public services, this has separated millions of people from people in more lucrative sectors.
Something has to give.
Instead of putting money into poorer regions and funding and reforming job training/ education to meet the changes in employment, the right wing has seen the chance to lead us on the current path of leaving the evil EU.
They offer the carrot of massive trade deals to bring back Jobs, coupled with a return to a great powerful nation. Playing on words like „independence“, whilst ignoring our actual independence and the fact that we will have a weakened status by detaching ourselves from a powerful trading block.
We need Labour now. We need someone to oppose what is happening and swing the pendulum back in the direction of helping rebuild areas that have declined. The aim should that of creating a more balanced country. We won’t get that by leaving the EU, which is why we don’t need Corbyn as leader.
So long as the ERG are holding the government to ransom to obtain openings for USA agriculture and industry, and emerging markets which will create wealth for the hedge funds and companies importing from the USA and emerging markets, and for people holding investments in these countries, the poorer sections will not be the priority. In fact there may be a switch to a more American libertarian policy which favours the better educated, more skilled and more flexible work force leaving the rest to accept whatever working conditions they are offered. Companies that cannot compete with the USA will go to the wall in trade deals designed to give the USA the upper hand.
There is so much to be done in the UK and parliament is lamed by a crazy right wing project called Brexit.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You have to find a way to convince the people in these declining areas that if we don't go (or there is a much softer version of Brexit) that something is going to change for them. And it has to be a clear commitment where they can see a definitive improvement in their lives and that for their children in the future. The Labour manifesto is in a better place to deliver that than any other party.
What you can't do is take the PV approach; patronise them, tell them they didn't know what they voted for, and expect them to jump in line with London-centric ideology that a) won't improve anything for them and b) has no understanding for their concerns and insecurities. Trotting out the 'you were lied to' or 'Leave cheated' is not a compelling enough reason for them to change.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
She's not renegotiating the withdrawal agreement anyway, so he's got a way out.
Except, when in power of course they spunk away money like it's going out of fashion, open the floodgates that will ultimately be the downfall of this nation and help themselves to everything they can off the back of pretending to care for the British working man
Until we can learn to work for a dollar an hour, I would suggest it won't make much difference who is in power. Globalization, in short China....have and continue to smash up quality employment all over the West
How much do you think is being spunked up the wall because of Brexit? Thousands of civil servants, border staff and countless measures being taken. The true cost of Brexit preparation will come out years later. No one is going to open that can of worms until the Tories have it safely over the line.
Which is why we need to be in a trading bloc.
The EU aren’t renegotiating her deal again anyway. It has to be something totally different to May‘s red lines.
Yes, whilst it is the truth, they are hardly going to say, „yes we were lied to and didn’t realise it“.
That is why, although I don’t count myself as a labour supporter, I do see that things have moved too far to the capitalist world view. In my business, I would be better off when poverty was reduced and „the many“ had more spending money. The raising of the minimum wage costs me money, but I can raise prices as my customers have more spending money. If the very rich paid higher tax it wouldn’t reduce demand for my goods. More people in better paid jobs would increase demand.
If I lived in the UK, I probably would vote labour now, especially if they guaranteed a people’s vote on whatever Brexit turns out to be, versus remain.
Astute
Well-Known Member
We need more police officers on the streets. Will you get it with the Tories? Most probably will with Labour. But it costs money. How about the needy that have been denied by the Tories? Labour will most probably help. But it costs money. Tax will have to go up. But the Tories always cut tax. That is because they are for the rich and better off.
Personally I am better off with a Tory government. But I remember my roots. I know what it is like to be poor. I haven't suddenly become a Tory voter because I am better off now. I know Labour spends more. But that is mainly because of the vicious cuts brought in by the Tories. Labour always tries to do too much too quickly. But it is better than doing less than nothing about the situation.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yet how much is spunked up the wall by the EU?
Remember when they said they could make savings to make up the shortfall in our contributions?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
This is the key thing. It never ceases to amaze me (on all sides of the political coin) how many people expect good services, while at the same time expecting lower taxes.
Incompatible really. Either accept private and personal liabilities for things, or higher taxes.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I never trust anybody who comes up with the vague 'efficiency savings' as a solution. That usually equals 'cuts'.
I don’t know and I don’t see the relevance to the UK wasting a fortune on a mad project of self harm. Just saw that food prices have increased at the highest rate in 5 years. More crap from Brexit.
I agree with some of what you say but the government is only taking so much from all tax receipts......and that is with high employment at the moment..........but still it spends more than it takes. If we spend more now, it increases the debt and in the future that debt repayment will mean even less to spend for future governments. Whilst extreme poverty shouldn't be tolerated in a Western Nation like the UK, I do still think that many people need to start lowering their expectations for life. When I was younger in the 1970's/80's we never had a lot at all but then neither did our friends and friends parents as a rule so there wasn't the culture of envy we seem to have today...... a lot of which is spread around social media etc.
If there is a way of taxing the super rich, then I'm all for it but as we all know, they have the knack of tax avoidance under any government and seem to just get richer every year.