ESB1 Surgery (4 Viewers)

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys,

Before I get started, this not an end of the world tale or indeed a dramatic life changing problem, but as there are a good bunch of people on here with smart brains. I'm hoping you'll be able to help me with something.

I started a new job around 9 months ago. Since I've been working at this place I have had to endure 80+ hour weeks and spend a lot of time away travelling. To put it into perspective I fly to Dublin in the morning and it is my 26th flight this year.

Taking the above out of the picture, what has made the whole thing unbearable is one particular colleague who was essentially assigned as my mentor. I end up out on-site with this guy for days on end with almost no other outside support. To put it bluntly, this guy has bullied me pretty severely for most of the last 9 months.

Humiliating me in front of customers, backstabbing me to colleagues and also bitching about my performance to other staff members and my boss. 99.9% is false and unwarranted. This shit has been constant and he's had it in for me since my very early days in the company.

It started to bother me a lot outside of work so I raised it with my boss. He basically did nothing and told me I was paranoid and that this guy was nothing like how I was describing him. Since this time I have reported him a second time, and only when other management stepped in did my boss actually bother to listen to me.

The end result? He said I needed to resolve the fallout as the other guy has been at the company for five years. He said if it is 'me against him', I will be the one that sees the door.

The play is now that this guy is on his best behaviour in front of my boss, copying him into all the nice emails he sends me. Only to then shout at me and treat me like shit whenever he gets me in a 1 on 1 situation.

The guy is calculated and is quite frankly ruining my life. I am looking for another job but I'm struggling to think in a measured way to be able to formulate an exit plan and try and somehow find someone else in authority to report him to later on. I can't do so now as I fear for my job and think it would be stupid to set myself up for a clubbing without new employment lined up.

Anyone been in a similar situation or have any external perspective advice to either help me keep my sanity or actually get out of dodge?

Sorry for the essay, I could include various examples of what he's done to me but it would only lengthen this even more. Happy to include them later.

Thanks for your help, and sorry for moaning on like an old hag. It really has been a nightmare and it's fucking me up a bit.

Cheers SBT.
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Get him 1 to 1, threaten to kick fuck out of him and to tell his Mrs he's been playing away if he doesn't back off. Then never repeat it in case he records you and always deny it to others if questioned. If things don't change follow through on one or both threats but not before you have another job lined up.
 
ajsccfc

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The end result? He said I needed to resolve the fallout as the other guy has been at the company for five years. He said if it is 'me against him', I will be the one that sees the door.
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I don't know a great deal about work disputes, but surely this can't be legal.
 
fellatio_Martinez

fellatio_Martinez

Well-Known Member
Try to record him whenever you think he's going say something untoward. Then you have proof.

If your boss is useless then if possible go above his head to HR or someone who understands that workplace bullying is very serious. They would nip it in the bud sharpish, especially if you mention a union or taking it to an employment tribunal. Even without proof you can still push things up the ladder.

Is the guy physically intimidating or threatening? Do you think you could handle yourself in a fight because unfortunately most times bullies are cowards and once they feel any danger they will run a mile.

That's a last resort of course.

If all else fails just quit your job. As scary as that sounds you'll be far happier and get that prick out of your life.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Hi Guys,

Before I get started, this not an end of the world tale or indeed a dramatic life changing problem, but as there are a good bunch of people on here with smart brains. I'm hoping you'll be able to help me with something.

I started a new job around 9 months ago. Since I've been working at this place I have had to endure 80+ hour weeks and spend a lot of time away travelling. To put it into perspective I fly to Dublin in the morning and it is my 26th flight this year.

Taking the above out of the picture, what has made the whole thing unbearable is one particular colleague who was essentially assigned as my mentor. I end up out on-site with this guy for days on end with almost no other outside support. To put it bluntly, this guy has bullied me pretty severely for most of the last 9 months.

Humiliating me in front of customers, backstabbing me to colleagues and also bitching about my performance to other staff members and my boss. 99.9% is false and unwarranted. This shit has been constant and he's had it in for me since my very early days in the company.

It started to bother me a lot outside of work so I raised it with my boss. He basically did nothing and told me I was paranoid and that this guy was nothing like how I was describing him. Since this time I have reported him a second time, and only when other management stepped in did my boss actually bother to listen to me.

The end result? He said I needed to resolve the fallout as the other guy has been at the company for five years. He said if it is 'me against him', I will be the one that sees the door.

The play is now that this guy is on his best behaviour in front of my boss, copying him into all the nice emails he sends me. Only to then shout at me and treat me like shit whenever he gets me in a 1 on 1 situation.

The guy is calculated and is quite frankly ruining my life. I am looking for another job but I'm struggling to think in a measured way to be able to formulate an exit plan and try and somehow find someone else in authority to report him to later on. I can't do so now as I fear for my job and think it would be stupid to set myself up for a clubbing without new employment lined up.

Anyone been in a similar situation or have any external perspective advice to either help me keep my sanity or actually get out of dodge?

Sorry for the essay, I could include various examples of what he's done to me but it would only lengthen this even more. Happy to include them later.

Thanks for your help, and sorry for moaning on like an old hag. It really has been a nightmare and it's fucking me up a bit.

Cheers SBT.
Click to expand...
Discreetly record conversations & keep them along with dates, times & notes of them...along with dates, times & notes of your reporting the previous incidents...take to a higher level or a solicitor later & claim compensation. It sounds like they have failed in their duty of care to investigate things properly.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
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Covrock

Well-Known Member
Do you have some form of employee handbook? It should explain the procedure for reporting bullying/harassment, follow the company procedures to the letter. As some have already said, record dates, times, locations and what was said, I always keep a little note book in my pocket. If nothing is done, whistleblow. Bi pass the managers. As a manager, I detest bullies, staff have come to me complaining, first thing I ask for are dates,times etc. Then I follow the company procedures, if at the end it's bye bye bully, so be it. Have you spoken to any of your colleagues, ask them how he treats them. One serious note, keep your fists in your pocket.Good luck mate.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
First off, violence isn't the answer here. It'll end up with one or both of you sacked for gross misconduct and possibly with a criminal record, and the other hurting, resentful and looking for revenge. How does that help things now or in the future?

I'd start by having a few days off sick so that you can get your head straight and maybe start looking around for something else. You could either say it's stress-related as a result of the continual bullying and the management's refusal to deal with it, or you could save that for later and just say that you've got a stomach bug.

Either way though, the stress-related absence would probably force the issue with the company, and it might be one to consider if you're getting nowhere with anything else. It may still end up with you leaving, but at least there's a chance they'll try to deal with the issue.

My gut feel is that you probably need to consider moving on, this doesn't sound like the sort of place to be stuck in for a long time...
 
eastwoodsdustman

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
Keep a daily diary of everything that goes on and whatever conversations you have with managers etc. Build a case then present it to hr/senior management and if need be use it in a tribunal if you do leave.
The manager clearly isn’t backing you so needs dealing with just as much as the prick you work with.
 
SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Feel for you mate, that's a horrible position to be in.

It takes strength to recognise that some situations are un-winnable and this sounds like it's definitely one of them. What's the point in prolonging the pain by trying to fight against it? You'll lose for sure and you'll wreck yourself in the process.

You can still take control. Get out of there fast, take any sort of job as a stop gap while you get a better one lined up.


You'll be taking a step backwards and then eventually one forward but you'll retain your sanity and health.


Then find him and deck him.
 
We'll_live_and_die

We'll_live_and_die

Super Moderator
Sorry to read about your situation mate. Looks like a good job made shit by one arsehole.

I found myself in a similar situation a few years back. I began working at a business where the MD was hardly there, there was a culture of bullying. Accounts had 5 different assistants in the 2 years I was there, all left because of the couple that took umbrance with everyone.

Eventually they turned their attentions to me. Unfortunately there is only one way out of that situation.

I found myself another position, served all but a couple of days of my notice period. When I was nearing the end one of the bullies tried to have a go at me, so I walked out and that was that.

I nearly had a breakdown and very nearly lost my family as a result of my depression in the last 6 months of that job. DO NOT MAN IT OUT. Admit this one's not for you and get out, before it affects your mental health.
 
Mr Panda

Mr Panda

Well-Known Member
I'd follow what a few people have said here and record him on your phone. Open a voice memo in anticipation and just flick the record button discreetly when he starts.

From what you've said it won't be too long before he slips up and you get something pretty damning on him.

These things can really bring a person down so make sure you know when enough is enough and when to walk away.
 
S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
if it is a fairly big company - Straight complaint to HR and advise that you will also take legal advice (But Document everything!)
A small company is much harder, and may lead to you having to leave, but still with legal advice if nothing is done you will have a claim against the company
 
Sky_Blue_Daz

Sky_Blue_Daz

Well-Known Member
No matter how tempting don’t hit him , I echo the sentiment of many on here get a union rep, if you can try to record as much of his conversations as you can

Most of all try not to take it out on those you are close to

Bloke sounds a right prick though, I would also suggest going off with work related stress
 
Sky_Blue_Daz

Sky_Blue_Daz

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Not while he works there, if so, don't do it himself ;)

Stick a 2 footer on the prick by the photocopier, stand up and say you got the ball. straighten your tie and get on with the day.*

*Don't really, it wouldn't help things at all.
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Well I suppose if your going in two footed you might as well elbow him in the throat
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Nah, be more subtle - tread on him 'accidentally', then help him up by gripping the hair and skin underneath his armpits ;)
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I don’t get the relationship thing? Is he a superior or someone who is a level player in the organisation?

Is there an actual HR department in the company?
 
S

SAJ

Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear this tale.
Think you have had some good advice particularly off Eastwoodsdustman Covrock and SkyblueBazza. I have a fair amount of experience in this type of thing and would suggest not resigning at present, as I think you would have a strong legal case against the company that would in a tribunal earn you quite an amount of compensation should you leave at a later stage one you have supplied them with all the evidence.
Remember you haven’t done anything wrong, your company has a legal duty of care which at the moment your manager is failing in.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
What a terrible situation.
I'm not sure what advise I can offer but hope your job hunting proves fruitful and you get out of there ASAP.
I would echo what people have said about gathering evidence/recording him as however this pans out it may come in useful further down the line.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it's just me but I wouldn't just leave. I wouldn't want to put some other unsuspecting person in the same position and I'd want to take the fucker down.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Liquid Gold said:
I don't know if it's just me but I wouldn't just leave. I wouldn't want to put some other unsuspecting person in the same position and I'd want to take the fucker down.
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FWIW I had similar once, and I can see both POVs because I ended up doing both... neither satisfactorally!

I remember going to the union rep and him saying 'oh hi, surprised it took you this long, you're the last staff member to come and see me'. That didn't bode well for the culture around the place!

So I stuck it out for a while as I've been brought up not to quit and yep, made myself ill. Then I left without a job to go to just as the recession hit, then took a job temporarily below my previous level as a stop-gap, but ended up pigeon-holded at that level.

What I do kind of regret is not taking them down with me. I remember the union rep saying I had great cause for a grievance, but I could wave goodbye to any references if I took them on. But, I feel I let others down in a way who were there, and who followed. Really, it needed *somebody* to stick their head above the parapit, and more would have followed. But then, rationally, self-preservation takes over.

Leaving it for a while before going was the worst thing to happen though. Had I been brave enough to jump, I'd have looked for another job in that field. As it is, a cold sweat comes over me whenever I think about it! But holding off and jumping into no job didn't help - there are things like mortgages to pay, after all, and the stress doesn't get any less when you don't have the income to do so.

In short ESB1, good luck. Get some advice off those you feel you can trust in the workplace, in unions, in HR. And talk to family too. I suppose ultimately it boils down to, you have to do what's right for you.
 
Covstu

Covstu

Well-Known Member
A few things you can do here:

1) Diary/recording of events - Any HR dept cannot move this forward without some 'real' data to rely on so diary everything on what was said 'verbatim', dates, times locations and best case any witnesses. If you know you are about to get some grief, try and record it on the phone. This will be unauthorised surveillance however this is not admissible in a grievance proceeding and/or tribunal setting.
2) Address it with him - If you are feeling up to it, have it out with him in a civil manner and demonstrate what effect he is having on your worklife and see how he reacts. You may want to back this up in an email summarising the discussions and therefore again another clear piece of evidence for your case.
3) Manager involvement - clearly he isn't supportive but do you have to work with this guy to conduct your role, if not can you be moved or not interact with him?

Ultimately all of the above needs to lead to a grievance into the HR dept but without any evidence this will not be upheld. If you have a union then great, they will support but again will ask for information to utilise. If you really want to make an impact then go off with Work related stress but don't do this unless you have clear evidence as they may treat you as a 'problem' rather than someone who needs genuine support. In respect to any further action, you must follow your companies internal proceedings for grievance/Bullying and Harassment. If its a small company then they may not have this or an HR department which you will then have to follow ACAS guidelines and send this to someone more senior.

Sadly a lot of B&H cases are unfounded due to 'me vs him' incidents which can never be proven. One thing I would say is that they rarely end up as a happy outcome and usually results in someone being displaced or moved but if this is you then you need to ensure you are in a good position prior to making that decision.
 
Mcbean

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Arse of a position to be in - Put your case together as others have suggested - recordings , diary etc - once this is with HR they may decide that they might pay you off and this has to be to your advantage - sometime insurance policies ( home, buildings) may have a advice line that may be able to help , might be worth a check - i guess you should confide in your family - a problem shared is one halved - good luck
 
rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Mcbean said:
Arse of a position to be in - Put your case together as others have suggested - recordings , diary etc - once this is with HR they may decide that they might pay you off and this has to be to your advantage - sometime insurance policies ( home, buildings) may have a advice line that may be able to help , might be worth a check - i guess you should confide in your family - a problem shared is one halved - good luck
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A problem shared is someone else's, fkn burden :)
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Covstu said:
A few things you can do here:

1) Diary/recording of events - Any HR dept cannot move this forward without some 'real' data to rely on so diary everything on what was said 'verbatim', dates, times locations and best case any witnesses. If you know you are about to get some grief, try and record it on the phone. This will be unauthorised surveillance however this is not admissible in a grievance proceeding and/or tribunal setting.
2) Address it with him - If you are feeling up to it, have it out with him in a civil manner and demonstrate what effect he is having on your worklife and see how he reacts. You may want to back this up in an email summarising the discussions and therefore again another clear piece of evidence for your case.
3) Manager involvement - clearly he isn't supportive but do you have to work with this guy to conduct your role, if not can you be moved or not interact with him?

Ultimately all of the above needs to lead to a grievance into the HR dept but without any evidence this will not be upheld. If you have a union then great, they will support but again will ask for information to utilise. If you really want to make an impact then go off with Work related stress but don't do this unless you have clear evidence as they may treat you as a 'problem' rather than someone who needs genuine support. In respect to any further action, you must follow your companies internal proceedings for grievance/Bullying and Harassment. If its a small company then they may not have this or an HR department which you will then have to follow ACAS guidelines and send this to someone more senior.

Sadly a lot of B&H cases are unfounded due to 'me vs him' incidents which can never be proven. One thing I would say is that they rarely end up as a happy outcome and usually results in someone being displaced or moved but if this is you then you need to ensure you are in a good position prior to making that decision.
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Are recordings made without the other persons permission usable in a grievance situation?
 
We'll_live_and_die

We'll_live_and_die

Super Moderator
I see plenty about making a case and keeping records etc.

What's the point, if it's a stressful situation just get out before it gets worse.

When I left a similar position, the MD took £200 out of my final salary for "damage" to the company vehicle. There was none, but I wasn't going to start any grievance procedure as I just needed to close that chapter and move on.
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Are recordings made without the other persons permission usable in a grievance situation?
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I would say it would be circumstantial at worst. But try to avoid concocting a situation that could be argued by the other party as being entrapment.

ESB1: Does anyone else get affected by this person's behaviour, do you know? Any murmurings in the coffee room, or evidence of people avoiding this person, or behaving differently with them around? Could get them on board in a "joint action".
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Rich said:
I see plenty about making a case and keeping records etc.

What's the point, if it's a stressful situation just get out before it gets worse.

When I left a similar position, the MD took £200 out of my final salary for "damage" to the company vehicle. There was none, but I wasn't going to start any grievance procedure as I just needed to close that chapter and move on.
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It’s a balance you face it and do what you can professionally and taking the higher ground until you recognise you can’t. Represented two people at work Over the last 12 months who have grown and matured and found they are much stronger than they first thought going through one informal and one formal bullying and harassment cases against colleagues and managers. They have both been promoted since and I’m very proud of them. Absolutely agree if it’s gone too far you need to get out
 
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