The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (29 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

From what I read it was more that those who can afford treatment outside the NH should do so. And I agree with this. I went private 3 years ago when needed and my treatment lasted well over 2 years.

Can we stop pretending Farage isn’t a bog standard far right Tory?

He’s not a man of the people. He’s a financial trader on a scam FFS.

People are so naive.

 

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[SIR ERNIE]

Can we stop pretending Farage isn’t a bog standard far right Tory?

He’s not a man of the people. He’s a financial trader on a scam FFS.

People are so naive.

Rattled

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Brexit deal 'must include confirmatory vote'

I have to ask why on earth it isn't policy without the caveats, then.

As it stands, there's no reason whatsoever to vote Labour in Euro elections. Want to Leave? They don't seem overly committed to that. Want to stay? They don't have any policy that suggests that as an option.

 

[Grendel]

Brexit deal 'must include confirmatory vote'

I have to ask why on earth it isn't policy without the caveats, then.

As it stands, there's no reason whatsoever to vote Labour in Euro elections. Want to Leave? They don't seem overly committed to that. Want to stay? They don't have any policy that suggests that as an option.

I think it’s away in their head to force a general election and the actual subject is irrelevant

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think it’s away in their head to force a general election and the actual subject is irrelevant

Indeed, but it's pretty suicidal really. They'll still end up with about 20% who'll vote for them whatever they put out, as will the Tories, but if they don't commit to *something* they'll lose any ability to shape the conversation.

And that's not the sign of a party that wants to lead.

 

[Astute]

Hang on...am I getting this right? You are moving to somewhere in France (?) where there are restrictions on the free movement of people?

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There are restrictions yes. Just like there is in the UK and just about everywhere else.

 

[Astute]

Can we stop pretending Farage isn’t a bog standard far right Tory?

He’s not a man of the people. He’s a financial trader on a scam FFS.

People are so naive.

And here we go again.

So would you like to point out where I have said what you make out I have? Same old every time. Me saying what I saw Farage doing isn't me saying I fully agree with it. The difference is that I have an open mind when looking at things. The whole thing has been a disaster for me and my family. Yet people like yourself keep saying that I am all for it. That is not true.

Some things said about Farage is true. Some things are made up. He uses people like they use him. Remain has fucked up by trying to ignore those who want to leave. It was continually said on here that they would never have an impact like those who marched for remain. I was shouted down as usual for trying to explain what I thought would happen. And now it is happening.

So yes it is a complete joke.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think it’s away in their head to force a general election and the actual subject is irrelevant

That becomes more obvious with every passing day. Yesterday it was the youth vote & raising minimum wage.
People think this cost will come from some magic money tree rather than the viscious circle it merely exacerbates & speeds-up while demoralising low-middle earners who after deductions earn a pick-up little more than the not so low earners.

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[SkyblueBazza]

There are restrictions yes. Just like there is in the UK and just about everywhere else.

Well I never! So the UK enter into the true spirit of an EU pillar, whilst the others give it lip-service? I'd like to say "that's a new one"...but I can't really can I?

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[Grendel]

Lol you’re the one voting for someone very much aligned and part of the alt-right.

Outrage after Farage appears on 'disgusting' conspiracy theorist show

Marr tried to challenge him on this and failed spectacularly - Farage saw his ratings climb even more - he just played the establishment card and boom another few points for Nigel

 

[skybluetony176]

Well I never! So the UK enter into the true spirit of an EU pillar, whilst the others give it lip-service? I'd like to say "that's a new one"...but I can't really can I?

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It’s the sovereign British governments decision not to do what France do. We’re well within our rights as EU members to be tougher on EU migration should we wish but successive British governments chose not to. Hardly the EU’s fault. Same as the British government could drop VAT tomorrow and not fall foul of EU rules but some would prefer to believe that the EU is setting our VAT rates. Same as it’s our governments choice to divy out a large percentage of our fishing quota to large factory trawlers owned by foreign companies and crewed by foreigners but happen to be registered conveniently in the U.K. rather than divy it to our own local, British owned, British crewed fishing fleets.

 

[shmmeee]

And here we go again.

So would you like to point out where I have said what you make out I have? Same old every time. Me saying what I saw Farage doing isn't me saying I fully agree with it. The difference is that I have an open mind when looking at things. The whole thing has been a disaster for me and my family. Yet people like yourself keep saying that I am all for it. That is not true.

Some things said about Farage is true. Some things are made up. He uses people like they use him. Remain has fucked up by trying to ignore those who want to leave. It was continually said on here that they would never have an impact like those who marched for remain. I was shouted down as usual for trying to explain what I thought would happen. And now it is happening.

So yes it is a complete joke.

He wants a private NHS. Every party he’s lead has had some form of policy around this. The “take the pressure off” wheeze is a standard rouse for people who want to privatise the NHS because that’s rightly seen as madness by the public.

He (like every other Tory that wants this) want this so he can make money from the system. He wants a hard Brexit so he can make money off the collapse of the UK.

If you take his words at face value, as you did in your post, I’ll stand by my accusation of naivety.

 

[shmmeee]

Well I never! So the UK enter into the true spirit of an EU pillar, whilst the others give it lip-service? I'd like to say "that's a new one"...but I can't really can I?

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Not really

The UK public elected governments (Blair and Cameron) that valued GDP growth over immigration concerns. So they decided not to implement the rules everyone else did so we could attract more Eastern European immigrants and reap the economic benefit.

If the EU didn’t want transition controls, they wouldn’t have been available.

 

[Grendel]

It’s the sovereign British governments decision not to do what France do. We’re well within our rights as EU members to be tougher on EU migration should we wish but successive British governments chose not to. Hardly the EU’s fault. Same as the British government could drop VAT tomorrow and not fall foul of EU rules but some would prefer to believe that the EU is setting our VAT rates. Same as it’s our governments choice to divy out a large percentage of our fishing quota to large factory trawlers owned by foreign companies and crewed by foreigners but happen to be registered conveniently in the U.K. rather than divy it to our own local, British owned, British crewed fishing fleets.

So we can refuse EU members who have work here and drop VAT to below 4% is that what you are saying Tony?

 

[Grendel]

Not really

The UK public elected governments (Blair and Cameron) that valued GDP growth over immigration concerns. So they decided not to implement the rules everyone else did so we could attract more Eastern European immigrants and reap the economic benefit.

So we could ban them for eternity and not a set period? Are you sure?

 

[skybluetony176]

So we can refuse EU members who have work here and drop VAT to below 4% is that what you are saying Tony?

No that’s not what I’m saying. Which is why you’re trying to make out that is what I said with your typically leading and loaded question that isn’t actually the point you want to make but you prefer to be a prat rather than just make your point in the first place.

 

[Ian1779]

That becomes more obvious with every passing day. Yesterday it was the youth vote & raising minimum wage.
People think this cost will come from some magic money tree rather than the viscious circle it merely exacerbates & speeds-up while demoralising low-middle earners who after deductions earn a pick-up little more than the not so low earners.

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Why would they not? This government could fall at any moment, and when that happens they are the only party that is anti-austerity. Does any other party have any idea what would be in their manifesto?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Why would they not? This government could fall at any moment, and when that happens they are the only party that is anti-austerity. Does any other party have any idea what would be in their manifesto?

Why not? I thought getting to some Brexit outcomes would be the top priority - until we know what that is going to look like this is potentially a promise they will/can not fulfil

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[skybluetony176]

Why not? I thought getting to some Brexit outcomes would be the top priority - until we know what that is going to look like this is potentially a promise they will/can not fulfil

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Shame no one pointed that out to May when she called an early election under the misguided notion that she could increase her majority on the strength of opinion polls.

 

[Ian1779]

Why not? I thought getting to some Brexit outcomes would be the top priority - until we know what that is going to look like this is potentially a promise they will/can not fulfil

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Labour do not have the majority in the house. Nothing has the majority of the house, except for not wanting a no-deal Brexit. These negotiations can keep happening as much as they like, but the reality is that unless the Tories concede ground there is no deal, because May's deal won't get through.

So what's the one thing you can control - what you will do if you were in government.

The Brexit party will win these EU elections - let them have their seats in a European Council that they supposedly don't want to even be part of. They also don't have a single other policy, and at some point that will bite them in the arse.

 

[skybluetony176]

They also don't have a single other policy, and at some point that will bite them in the arse.

I bet dropping VAT below 4% isn’t one of their policies.

 

[Ian1779]

I bet dropping VAT below 4% isn’t one of their policies.

He doesn't have to discuss any policy as he is just running around shouting 'affront to democracy' at anyone who will listen. He could do with his legs being cut out from beneath him. That only will happen if they agree a deal.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not really

The UK public elected governments (Blair and Cameron) that valued GDP growth over immigration concerns. So they decided not to implement the rules everyone else did so we could attract more Eastern European immigrants and reap the economic benefit.

If the EU didn’t want transition controls, they wouldn’t have been available.

No party I can recall has ever put a policy in their manifesto where they would have to l admit that they’re going to shrink the economy because as you point out that is reality of tougher control of EU migrants.

 

[skybluetony176]

He doesn't have to discuss any policy as he is just running around shouting 'affront to democracy' at anyone who will listen. He could do with his legs being cut out from beneath him. That only will happen if they agree a deal.

And that doesn’t look likely at this moment in time.

 

[Grendel]

I bet dropping VAT below 4% isn’t one of their policies.

It can’t be can it?

 

[skybluetony176]

It can’t be can it?

If the brexit Party are ever elected to government their one and only policy is hard brexit. What’s stopping them doing it once they’ve been elected and we’ve had their hard brexit other than economic sanity? Will VAT below 4% be in their manifesto? Yes or No?

 

[Grendel]

If the brexit Party are ever elected to government their one and only policy is hard brexit. What’s stopping them doing it once they’ve been elected and we’ve had their hard brexit other than economic sanity? Will VAT below 4% be in their manifesto? Yes or No?

With respect I asked the question regarding VAT rates first - we both know Brussels decided what that can be

 

[skybluetony176]

With respect I asked the question regarding VAT rates first - we both know Brussels decided what that can be

Brussels has told the government to set VAT at 20%? I don’t think so. The government could drop it to 15% tomorrow and the EU couldn’t say a word and you know it despite pretending not too.

So anyway, back to “the man’s” manifesto. Will it include dropping VAT to below 4%? Yes or No?

 

[Grendel]

Brussels has told the government to set VAT at 20%? I don’t think so. The government could drop it to 15% tomorrow and the EU couldn’t say a word and you know it despite pretending not too.

So anyway, back to “the man’s” manifesto. Will it include dropping VAT to below 4%? Yes or No?

His manifesto is honouring the will of the people and preserving democracy - I’ve never voted for him but you have and I assume you felt the same way at the time

 

[shmmeee]

Rattled

I couldn’t give a shit mate. I’ve got enough skills to work wherever I want if this country goes tits up.

Just find the endless idiocy pretty hilarious. That lot must piss themselves that they’ve managed to convince so many people they’re “man of the people” or whatever. You couldn’t make it up, bunch of posh boy traders convince a load of white van men they’re on their side.

 

[Ian1779]

His manifesto is honouring the will of the people and preserving democracy - I’ve never voted for him but you have and I assume you felt the same way at the time

His only ‘real’ manifesto is his own personal gain. He is however a shrewd operator and knew there was a gaping hole to exploit once it was evident we were not exiting on 29th March.

Democracy is to leave, but it doesn’t have to be the way he wants it. He will always have some supporters that will want the Hard Brexit line, or buy into his immigration bollocks.

There has been a massive underestimation of those people who want to leave because it’s been so shit for the last 10/20 years.

 

[Ian1779]

I couldn’t give a shit mate. I’ve got enough skills to work wherever I want if this country goes tits up.

Just find the endless idiocy pretty hilarious. That lot must piss themselves that they’ve managed to convince so many people they’re “man of the people” or whatever. You couldn’t make it up, bunch of posh boy traders convince a load of white van men they’re on their side.

This is Farage in a nutshell... makes out he’s one of us, having a cheeky pint down the social club - man of the people... he plans to win big off the back of the chaos... fuck everyone else once he’s cashed in.

 

[shmmeee]

This is Farage in a nutshell... makes out he’s one of us, having a cheeky pint down the social club - man of the people... he plans to win big off the back of the chaos... fuck everyone else once he’s cashed in.

It’s amazing. I’m literally stunned people can’t see through it.

Especially when they’re normally so quick with a conspiracy theory about how “they” are trying to fuck them over. Then one of “them” turns up and they all fawn like schoolgirls at a pop concert.

Same as the Alex Jones fans buying “brain pills” or whatever.

Saw Derren Brown once and he said the easiest people to fool were those that thought they weren’t foolable. Maybe the same applies here with conspiracy theorists.

 

[skybluetony176]

His manifesto is honouring the will of the people and preserving democracy - I’ve never voted for him but you have and I assume you felt the same way at the time

That’s a no then.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s amazing. I’m literally stunned people can’t see through it.

Especially when they’re normally so quick with a conspiracy theory about how “they” are trying to fuck them over. Then one of “them” turns up and they all fawn like schoolgirls at a pop concert.

Same as the Alex Jones fans buying “brain pills” or whatever.

Saw Derren Brown once and he said the easiest people to fool were those that thought they weren’t foolable. Maybe the same applies here with conspiracy theorists.

My grandfather always told me to question whatever a politician tells you. Especially if they’re telling you what you want to hear. Best advice I ever had concerning politics.