The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (90 Viewers)

[martcov]

Exactly what? 34% would be a majority which is his point

Criminal if true. Merkel got around that at the last Bundestag election and people on here were taking that as a disaster and that Merkel had lost. Now, it would be enough to govern the UK when a right wing, or Labour party is polling similar figures. We need PR to respect at least some of the 66%‘s wishes in such cases.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Exactly what? 34% would be a majority which is his point

In a general election?

 

[Grendel]

In a general election?

Parties have had very comfortable majorities with a 35% of the vote in recent times - the last election was unique as the smaller parties votes collapsed

Labour would have 317 seats with 27% based on the latest polls

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Parties have had very comfortable majorities with a 35% of the vote in recent times - the last election was unique as the smaller parties votes collapsed

Labour would have 317 seats with 27% based on the latest polls

35% gave Labour a reasonably comfortable majority in 2005.

 

[Grendel]

35% gave Labour a reasonably comfortable majority in 2005.

Exactly 356 seats

 

[martcov]

Out of interest:

Sonntagsfrage – Umfragen zur Europawahl 2019

How the parties are doing in Germany.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Exactly 356 seats

It is, tbf, the failing of FPTP - it also set Labour up for almost inevitable defeat the next election, much as the massive majority in 2001 meant they'd have had to go some to lose in 2005.

But then... we've seen with the current charade, how 'coalition' gives dispraportionate weight to certain views over others too, so not sure PR solves the problem.

 

[martcov]

It is, tbf, the failing of FPTP - it also set Labour up for almost inevitable defeat the next election, much as the massive majority in 2001 meant they'd have had to go some to lose in 2005.

But then... we've seen with the current charade, how 'coalition' gives dispraportionate weight to certain views over others too, so not sure PR solves the problem.

It certainly does as it gives options of coalition partners. Germany could have had Lib, Green and CDU/CSU at the general election. The CDU wouldn’t give the FDP what they wanted, so they declined the coalition. CDU/CSU had the Option of SPD or a minority government. They took SPD and SPD voters got at least some parts of the manifesto through. Next time will probably be CDU/CSU and Greens as the Greens are growing throughout Germany. The Greens here are super pro EU. More chance of achieving their climate and environmental aims by working through the EU.

The CDU couldn’t have got their policies through with only around 32% of the vote. With the SPD more than 50% of voters „won“.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It certainly does as it gives options of coalition partners. Germany could have had Lib, Green and CDU/CSU at the general election. The CDU wouldn’t give the FDP what they wanted, so they declined the coalition. CDU/CSU had the Option of SPD or a minority government. They took SPD and SPD voters got at least some parts of the manifesto through. Next time will probably be CDU/CSU and Greens as the Greens are growing throughout Germany. The Greens here are super pro EU. More chance of achieving their climate and environmental aims by working through the EU.

The CDU couldn’t have got their policies through with only around 32% of the vote. With the SPD more than 50% of voters „won“.

Or 0% won, as nobody got what they voted for.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes to have a load of seats in a parliament they don’t want to have any part in....

Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo

 

[Grendel]

Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo

You find all those catagories in labour members if you want - some who are in the inner circle

 

[martcov]

Or 0% won, as nobody got what they voted for.

They all got some part of their manifesto through ( governing parties). Much better than 0%. It is not black or white.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Heidi Allen Vs Ferage.

Heidi going out to bat then? Out first ball to a yorker I reckon.

 

[dutchman]

50% didn’t vote to leave on a hard brexit. The brexit Party polling at 29-34% only confirms that.

What percentage of the electorate voted for this city council?

 

[dutchman]

Really? Any facts to back up your statement?

When was the last time a government won a majority of the entire electorate?

 

[dutchman]

Just found the data that you’re quoting and Labour took 40% of the votes. Where exactly is Dutchman getting his notion that the Brexit Party could form a government.

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.

 

[skybluetony176]

Heidi going out to bat then? Out first ball to a yorker I reckon.

Ferage has declined the opportunity. Seems he wants election on rhetoric not substance.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out it has never been necessary to win a majority of the lectorate in order to form a government.

You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.

 

[dutchman]

You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.

In which general election was it a requirement to win a majority of the electorate?

 

[Grendel]

You said every election in history. That clearly isn’t the case.

It is - no party would ever have to command 50% to win a majority

 

[skybluetony176]

In which general election was it a requirement to win a majority of the electorate?

Again. That’s not what you said. You claimed what the brexit Party is polling at would have won them every election in history. Clearly not the case.
UK Election Statistics: 1918-2018 - 100 years of elections - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament

 

[RegTheDonk]

Ferage has declined the opportunity. Seems he wants election on rhetoric not substance.

lol "who is she?"
Bit dissapointing of Ferage that - after his bouts in the EU chamber, that would be light sparring session. I guess when you're the heavyweight, the contender has to prove themselves before getting in the ring.

 

[dutchman]

Again. That’s not what you said. You claimed what the brexit Party is polling at would have won them every election in history. Clearly not the case.

It's neither what I said not what I was suggesting. I was actually refering to the referendum result which remainers claim was not a 'majority' of the electorate.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is - no party would ever have to command 50% to win a majority

I never said they would. I’m disputing that 29-34% of votes would have won you a majority in every election in history. As per Dutchman’s claim. Two examples being 2010 & 17, something you confirmed yourself when you corrected one of my figures. When you look at the link I’ve just posted of electoral history of the last 100 years they aren’t even isolated cases.

 

[skybluetony176]

It's neither what I said not what I was suggesting. I was actually refering to the referendum result which remainers claim was not a 'majority' of the electorate.

You said and I quote you in full “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” in response to me saying that 29-34% isn’t a majority.

It’s pretty clear what you said.

 

[bezzer]

I got a Brexit Party leaflet through the door yesterday - a right pile of guff it was.

But they are the only people to have sent me a leaflet so far.

Out of interest, how did they know my name? Are they allowed to get that from the electoral register, even if I ask to go private on it?

My son received a leaflet from them yesterday. He's just turned 17 so can't even vote.

 

[dutchman]

You said and I quote you in full “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” in response to me saying that 29-34% isn’t a majority.

It’s pretty clear what you said.

And again my point was that it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.

 

[Grendel]

I never said they would. I’m disputing that 29-34% of votes would have won you a majority in every election in history. As per Dutchman’s claim. Two examples being 2010 & 17, something you confirmed yourself when you corrected one of my figures. When you look at the link I’ve just posted of electoral history of the last 100 years they aren’t even isolated cases.

You can’t count 100 years - the party make up now only started to happen in the 70’s

 

[skybluetony176]

And again my point was that it has never been necessary to win a majority of the electorate in order to form a government.

That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”

 

[dutchman]

That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”

I'm not changing anything, there has never been a general election where it was necessary to win a majority of the electorate.

 

[Grendel]

That’s your point now, it isn’t what you said initially. You’re changing your tune which is fine but don’t pretend that you didn’t say what you clearly said. Again “According to every General Election result in history, it is.”

In modern times there’s hardly been any occasions where the leading party in the polls hasn’t been then the official government

If this was a general election the split of votes would make the leading party the winner in the commons by some distance as the voting is suggesting all parties will have very split votes

 

[Ian1779]

Mysoginists, homophobes, empirists, facists, racists you can vote for them all in the brexit party whippey doo

Of course..... but this does not get exposed because the only noise is 'affront to democracy'

 

[skybluetony176]

You can’t count 100 years - the party make up now only started to happen in the 70’s

There’s not a single election from 1970 until now (13 GE’s in total) where 34% would have won you an election. The nearest would have been 2005 but he still would have needed at least another 1.2% and for his vote not to be concentrated to avoid a situation like 1974 where the Tories had the largest share of the votes but labour won the most seats.

 

[Grendel]

There’s not a single election from 1970 until now (13 GE’s in total) where 34% would have won you an election. The nearest would have been 2005 but he still would have needed at least another 1.2% and for his vote not to be concentrated to avoid a situation like 1974 where the Tories had the largest share of the votes but labour won the most seats.

Labour would have with 34% and the point still stands the party with that vote would be the government - given you seemed confused about this election being first past the post then it’s a bit rich to try and point score

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm not changing anything, there has never been a general election where it was necessary to win a majority of the electorate.

Again again. That’s not what you said. You said “According to every General Election result in history, it is.” it wouldn’t have won him any of the last 13 for starters.