cc84cov
Well-Known Member
Change in stance due to no European rugby my guess
This Week (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlueDom26
- Start date
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Need more detail than that? What assurances can the football club provide? The complaint is now out of the hands of the club or its owners.
If they mean they want the football club to cover any financial implication if the council and / or Wasps are found to be in the wrong there's no way the club should agree to that.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Young-ish, thin-ish, beard, very dark hair?
If so, they were taking the pictures!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Latest Coventry City developments.
An attempt to clarify some of the information on the latest in the Ricoh Arena saga after Wasps said last week they had pulled the plug on talks over CCFC staying at the stadium.
Strap yourselves in…
Why did talks stop?
CCFC’s owners filed a complaint to the EU Commission in February about the sale of the Ricoh Arena to the rugby club.
Wasps say this breached the pre-condition for talks – that legal action over the Ricoh Arena should stop before talks.
Why have talks only stopped now if the EU complaint was made in February?
Wasps say they were not aware of the complaint when they entered into negotiations “in good faith”. They started after the conclusion of the UK Court case.
Is this legal action?
CCFC / Sisu don’t think seem to think so. Wasps disagree.
The EU Commission defines this as a “legal process”.
If either side isn’t happy with the outcome of this complaint it could be appealed to the General European Court.
So it could end up in court?
Yes – and more than one.
Judgments of the EU General Court can be appealed before the European Court of Justice (ECJ) by the unsuccessful party.
Is this the same legal action?
No. It’s a new process. The UK Court process died in the Supreme Court.
But Wasps believe “the basis of the complaint to the EU is very similar in all matters of substance to the recent court actions” and “seeks remedial action.”
Isn’t this complaint is against the council, not Wasps?
Yes. But Wasps were not the respondent in the UK court case either.
Both actions appear to focus on the same “state aid” argument - that Wasps underpaid for the stadium by £27m and that amounts to state aid.
So why won’t Wasps talk?
The failed court process, and apparently this one, seeks to force Wasps to pay millions more for the Ricoh Arena.
That would put them under severe financial pressure. So it impacts Wasps – whether they’re the direct subject of the action or not.
If the council hasn’t done anything wrong will it cost Wasps money?
Wasps wouldn’t have to pay more for the Ricoh.
But there are costs to defend this.
Wasps says it spent £0.5m defending the UK case – but costs were eventually awarded to them by the Supreme Court.
Can the complaint be withdrawn?
Not in reality. If the Commission establishes that there is a breach of the competition rules, then it must act and it is irrelevant if the complaint is withdrawn or not.
So if it can’t be stopped, how long will this take?
The complaint hasn’t moved to a full investigation yet – it’s being assessed.
If it does, the investigation is likely to take months.
And if the result of that is appealed through the courts it could take years.
So will CCFC play at the Ricoh next season?
Not at the moment – unless Wasps change their stance or the EU Commission drops the case.
CCFC have said they are accelerating their back-up ground share options.
What does all this mean for CCFC’s future?
On May 29 EFL clubs are due to meet and vote on whether to expel CCFC from the Football League.
That’s unless the club can satisfy the EFL board they have somewhere to play next season.
Where can I read more about the EU Commission process?
Here: Antitrust: Overview – Competition - European Commission
An attempt to clarify some of the information on the latest in the Ricoh Arena saga after Wasps said last week they had pulled the plug on talks over CCFC staying at the stadium.
Strap yourselves in…
Why did talks stop?
CCFC’s owners filed a complaint to the EU Commission in February about the sale of the Ricoh Arena to the rugby club.
Wasps say this breached the pre-condition for talks – that legal action over the Ricoh Arena should stop before talks.
Why have talks only stopped now if the EU complaint was made in February?
Wasps say they were not aware of the complaint when they entered into negotiations “in good faith”. They started after the conclusion of the UK Court case.
Is this legal action?
CCFC / Sisu don’t think seem to think so. Wasps disagree.
The EU Commission defines this as a “legal process”.
If either side isn’t happy with the outcome of this complaint it could be appealed to the General European Court.
So it could end up in court?
Yes – and more than one.
Judgments of the EU General Court can be appealed before the European Court of Justice (ECJ) by the unsuccessful party.
Is this the same legal action?
No. It’s a new process. The UK Court process died in the Supreme Court.
But Wasps believe “the basis of the complaint to the EU is very similar in all matters of substance to the recent court actions” and “seeks remedial action.”
Isn’t this complaint is against the council, not Wasps?
Yes. But Wasps were not the respondent in the UK court case either.
Both actions appear to focus on the same “state aid” argument - that Wasps underpaid for the stadium by £27m and that amounts to state aid.
So why won’t Wasps talk?
The failed court process, and apparently this one, seeks to force Wasps to pay millions more for the Ricoh Arena.
That would put them under severe financial pressure. So it impacts Wasps – whether they’re the direct subject of the action or not.
If the council hasn’t done anything wrong will it cost Wasps money?
Wasps wouldn’t have to pay more for the Ricoh.
But there are costs to defend this.
Wasps says it spent £0.5m defending the UK case – but costs were eventually awarded to them by the Supreme Court.
Can the complaint be withdrawn?
Not in reality. If the Commission establishes that there is a breach of the competition rules, then it must act and it is irrelevant if the complaint is withdrawn or not.
So if it can’t be stopped, how long will this take?
The complaint hasn’t moved to a full investigation yet – it’s being assessed.
If it does, the investigation is likely to take months.
And if the result of that is appealed through the courts it could take years.
So will CCFC play at the Ricoh next season?
Not at the moment – unless Wasps change their stance or the EU Commission drops the case.
CCFC have said they are accelerating their back-up ground share options.
What does all this mean for CCFC’s future?
On May 29 EFL clubs are due to meet and vote on whether to expel CCFC from the Football League.
That’s unless the club can satisfy the EFL board they have somewhere to play next season.
Where can I read more about the EU Commission process?
Here: Antitrust: Overview – Competition - European Commission
Nick
Administrator
Yeah it was said week.
They want SISU / CCFC to cover any compensation they might need to pay out.
Nick
Administrator
Nick
Administrator
We knew all that last week though? He has also missed points out of it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I thought it was that clown Nigel
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
He also peddled it on Twitter ... and got the link to the EC wrong. The one he posted relates to anti-competition regulations (Article 101, including cartels), rather than State Aid (Article 107).
Pure self-promotion, which has now been picked up by David Conn of the Guardian, who criticises no party except SISU.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
This is click bait.
There is no difference between the comments in the link and last week's comments.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
If I were sisu I’d agree to it and if the EC rules against CCC and London Wasps just refuse to pay the cash, I’m sure their legal team would find some way of weaselling out of it and depending on when the payments had to be made the franchise’s cash flow could send them straight to admin.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
I rekon they will agree to it
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
The complaint could take years to work through and that bond issue is due to be repaid shortly.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I'd be amazed if they do.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Not on Twitter - can someone ask Simon if he thinks it’s write that CCFC should pick up the bill if the sale is undervalued? And if so why?
Also can he get wasps to comment on that?
Also can he get wasps to comment on that?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I’d have put a years wages against them agreeing to exclude London Wasps from all legal action a week ago. Who knows what they’re all up to.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I wouldnt imagine its the sort of move which will attract future investors, putting in a complaint about state aid and and then agreeing to cover the losses that result as a consequence of your complaint.
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
Obviously many people disagree with PSB group. As @shepardo01 (the guy in the GlazeATP top) nominated me to hold the flag for a pic I was worried people would think I was him, and kick me. But it looks like people haven’t made that mistake. Phew
Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
As I see it, Wasps have nothing to gain or lose by agreeing a rental agreement with CCFC. The investigation will go ahead regardless of whether an rental is agreed or not. Best to have a rental income whilst the investigation goes ahead than no income at all ?
Nick
Administrator
So surely they have something to gain?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
It would look good if Wasps could re-open discussions with CCFC, the perception it would give of Wasps overall would be positive.
Financially they could also benefit with CCFC being at the Ricoh.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
What do they have to gain though? Wasps severing ties with CCFC doesn't get rid of SISU, nor the EC investigation. CCFC remaining at the Ricoh has the same outcome. If anything Wasps lose out more if they sever ties as at least if we stay they'll bring in extra revenue that's clearly needed after failing to reach the European qualification spot. Their only hope is that by playing hard ball they'll somehow manage to convince SISU to grant them indemnity from the EC investigation. Which is frankly ridiculous.
The question remains though, why are they going to such lengths to seek indemnity and risk severing ties with a significant proportion of Coventry's population? Similarly, why resort to indemnity straight off the bat? It baffles me as a journalist Gilbert isn't asking these questions and instead making himself look incompetent by copying and pasting facts onto his Twitter feed.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The only variable is if Wasps continue to receive rent and other revenues from CCFC. Nothing else can be changed.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Let’s hope the powers at be see sense then as the only logical explanation for Wasps’ stance is they're trying to distress CCFC to essentially make a point.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
When is the next bond instalment and valuation due? As they’ve been saying the whole time the Ricoh is more valuable with sporting teams there if they kick us out the value should drop and possibly below a point that would cover bond security.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
His bias for Wasps is bordering on the embarrassing. Could he be more obvious? Yet again asking the wrong questions on purpose.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
So wasps have told Gilbert that the want any costs covering, no chance sisu will agree to that
Nick
Administrator
We knew last week Wasps had asked for their costs to be covered if it backfires on them.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Do ya rekon sisu might be forced to agree
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
It would explain why there are so many desperate social media accounts in overdrive making things up.
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Nick if it's not too much of a ballache, if you come across any of these weird tweets from these accounts could you create a thread for them? Might be helpful for those on here who don't have twitter/can't use it whilst at work to view what's being said. Cheers.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that - be interesting to see how’s he spins it?
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
Cannot wait to see his response to this.