The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (50 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Just something I came across today, does it have any relevance here? Either way what do you read from this

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[SkyblueBazza]

It’s definitely become more prevalent in recent years. The Tories are terrible for abusing statistics and avoiding the question.

I don't think they are any better or worse than others when pressed

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[SkyblueBazza]

It shows you have much less insight into French attitudes than you like to think then. The suggestion that areas of the country would collapse if it wasn’t for the British is absurd .

Whilst anyone suggesting any, or the whole of the UK will collapse upon leaving the EU would get a like from yourself & the usual suspects everytime

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[Sick Boy]

Whilst anyone suggesting any, or the whole of the UK will collapse upon leaving the EU would get a like from yourself & the usual suspects everytime

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Believe it or not but the sun and the world does not revolve around the UK.

 

[Sick Boy]

Just something I came across today, does it have any relevance here? Either way what do you read from this

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So basically migration from the EEA has a positive impact?

 

[skybluetony176]

So basically migration from the EEA has a positive impact?

That’s not news either. The interesting thing is that ultimately unless the government deliberately shrinks the economy (which no government is ever going to do) to keep the economy going and growing we’re going to use the type of immigration that costs the treasury as a make weight for the loss of migration that has a positive impact on the treasury.

 

[Astute]

Even how religion is a top priority?

For many it is. Or would you like to say different just because I said so?

So how about showing where I said regions in France would collapse like you said I mentioned? This is getting silly. How about keeping to the truth?

 

[Astute]

So basically migration from the EEA has a positive impact?

As you know it has positive and negative impacts. But you only like the negative impacts to be mentioned. Or you find someone else to blame for the negative impacts.

But never mind. It always gets you a pat on the back from certain people on here even when you make false accusations.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

...unless the government deliberately shrinks the economy (which no government is ever going to do) to keep the economy going and growing...

How the hell does that work?

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[Sick Boy]

For many it is. Or would you like to say different just because I said so?

So how about showing where I said regions in France would collapse like you said I mentioned? This is getting silly. How about keeping to the truth?

@Astute

France is a great country (as long as you keep away from Paris). People are worried about the direction that Macron is taking them in. And now we could be leaving without a deal they are even more worried. It is more than top line and bottom line. They have whole districts kept afloat by the British £. I am in one right now. But I suppose those who have never been here before will kniw better.

 

[Sick Boy]

As you know it has positive and negative impacts. But you only like the negative impacts to be mentioned. Or you find someone else to blame for the negative impacts.

But never mind. It always gets you a pat on the back from certain people on here even when you make false accusations.

What are you on about now? I'd much rather the positive case for EU migration was made.

 

[Astute]

@Astute

Kept apfloat isn't stopping from crashing. Brits are moving in yet the population is dropping. This isn't financial. This was in reply to you having a go at those leaving the UK and moving to France pushing up their house prices although they are dirt cheap.....then you not mentioning a thing about how high prices are in the UK for the same reason.

Nice try though.

 

[Astute]

What are you on about now? I'd much rather the positive case for EU migration was made.

Anything positive and nothing negative. Yet you call it a debate. A debate is looking at both sides however much you want or need one side to happen.

 

[skybluetony176]

How the hell does that work?

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The government curbs immigration, job vacancies don’t get filled as there’s a shortage of immigration to fill those positions, that forces productivity down, that forces a shrinkage of the economy. It’s basic maths. No government is going to stand on a menifesto of deliberately shrinking the economy whether the PM/party leader stood on a manifesto of taking back control in a referendum, in a party leadership campaign or indeed a general election whether they’ve been ranting about taking back control for the last 4 years or not. In other words nothing is going to change in terms of immigration numbers for the simple point that the economy demands immigration. Unless you deliberately shrink it by blocking immigration. The only thing that’s going to change is the demographic of immigration and as the chart shows brexit is going to cause smaller numbers of the demographic that contributes to the treasury and that is going to be replaced by the demographic that tends to cost the treasury.

We spend £360M a week on EU membership, let’s spend it funding a different demographic of immigration that costs the treasury money to keep the economy going post brexit instead. They should have put that on the side of a bus.

 

[skybluetony176]

As you know it has positive and negative impacts. But you only like the negative impacts to be mentioned. Or you find someone else to blame for the negative impacts.

But never mind. It always gets you a pat on the back from certain people on here even when you make false accusations.

The point is that non eu immigration has a negative and negative impact. Why is it so you think immigration from outside the EU is a deficit to the treasury while EU migration is a plus to the treasury?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The government curbs immigration, job vacancies don’t get filled as there’s a shortage of immigration to fill those positions, that forces productivity down, that forces a shrinkage of the economy. It’s basic maths. No government is going to stand on a menifesto of deliberately shrinking the economy whether the PM/party leader stood on a manifesto of taking back control in a referendum, in a party leadership campaign or indeed a general election whether they’ve been ranting about taking back control for the last 4 years or not. In other words nothing is going to change in terms of immigration numbers for the simple point that the economy demands immigration. Unless you deliberately shrink it by blocking immigration. The only thing that’s going to change is the demographic of immigration and as the chart shows brexit is going to cause smaller numbers of the demographic that contributes to the treasury and that is going to be replaced by the demographic that tends to cost the treasury.

We spend £360M a week on EU membership, let’s spend it funding a different demographic of immigration that costs the treasury money to keep the economy going post brexit instead. They should have put that on the side of a bus.

Nah, I'm not getting it. The government stops immigration deliberately...to shrink the economy...which keeps it going and growing - that is what you said

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[skybluetony176]

Nah, I'm not getting it. The government stops immigration deliberately...to shrink the economy...which keeps it going and growing - that is what you said

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No surprise. I’ll dumb it down for you. The growth of our economy over the last couple of decades has been significantly because of immigration filling jobs that otherwise couldn’t be filled thus growing the economy. This has largely been taken up by EU immigration under freedom of movement and that demographic has been a nett contributor to the treasury ie they put in more than they take out. That demographic of immigration will need replacing when freedom of movement ends post brexit, unless of course you deliberately shrink the economy so the economy doesn’t rely on an immigrant workforce as it currently does.

 

[Sick Boy]

Kept apfloat isn't stopping from crashing. Brits are moving in yet the population is dropping. This isn't financial. This was in reply to you having a go at those leaving the UK and moving to France pushing up their house prices although they are dirt cheap.....then you not mentioning a thing about how high prices are in the UK for the same reason.

Nice try though.

hahaha...classic.

I wasn't having a go at anyone. I have family who moved over to the south of France from Ireland after buying up cheap properties over then doing them up and reselling them. I've spent a lot of time over, especially in the Dordogne, and the notion that it is only the generous Brits and their precious £s keeping parts of France afloat is incredibly blinkered and insulting to the French.

 

[Grendel]

No surprise. I’ll dumb it down for you. The growth of our economy over the last couple of decades has been significantly because of immigration filling jobs that otherwise couldn’t be filled thus growing the economy. This has largely been taken up by EU immigration under freedom of movement and that demographic has been a nett contributor to the treasury ie they put in more than they take out. That demographic of immigration will need replacing when freedom of movement ends post brexit, unless of course you deliberately shrink the economy so the economy doesn’t rely on an immigrant workforce as it currently does.

Does the nett contribution include any increased cost In required infrastructure?

 

[skybluetony176]

Does the nett contribution include any increased cost In required infrastructure?

More so than the negative contribution from non EU migrants at the very least I would imagine.

 

[Astute]

hahaha...classic.

I wasn't having a go at anyone.

Two lines that show you to be untruthful yet again.

So how about showing where I said what you said I did? If it wasn't having a go at me it was just you being untruthful as usual.

So how about your previous comment about Brits making house prices in France unaffordable for the French when they are a fraction of prices in the UK in the majority of France? How about always sidestepping the question on what it does to house prices in the UK other than to blame someone else for it?

Not having a go? When was that?

 

[Grendel]

More so than the negative contribution from non EU migrants at the very least I would imagine.

No it doesn’t then

 

[Astute]

Does the nett contribution include any increased cost In required infrastructure?

Remain whatever=all about extra revenue but not additional costs.

Leave whatever=all about additional costs but not extra revenue.

 

[Astute]

That demographic of immigration will need replacing when freedom of movement ends post brexit, unless of course you deliberately shrink the economy so the economy doesn’t rely on an immigrant workforce as it currently does.

Make your mind up.

A no deal Brexit is supposed to shrink the UK economy. So by your way of thought we won't suffer because immigration will stop.

Wrong in so many ways.

 

[skybluetony176]

No it doesn’t then

How do you work that out then? Are you seriously suggesting that a demographic of immigrant that are a negative contributor to the treasury contributes the same as a demographic that is a contributor to the treasury tote cost of required infrastructure? You’re going to need some fancy maths to explain that one.

 

[skybluetony176]

Make your mind up.

A no deal Brexit is supposed to shrink the UK economy. So by your way of thought we won't suffer because immigration will stop.

Wrong in so many ways.

Are you aiming that question to me or the people who think brexit is the promised land of low immigration and a booming economy. You’re missing my point completely by inadvertently making the exact point.

 

[Astute]

Are you aiming that question to me or the people who think brexit is the promised land of low immigration and a booming economy. You’re missing my point completely by inadvertently making the exact point.

I replied to your post. Take a look. I even quoted your post.

So how about a proper reply?

 

[Grendel]

How do you work that out then? Are you seriously suggesting that a demographic of immigrant that are a negative contributor to the treasury contributes the same as a demographic that is a contributor to the treasury tote cost of required infrastructure? You’re going to need some fancy maths to explain that one.

I’m suggesting you have zero idea either way

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m suggesting you have zero idea either way

So if someone puts a fiver in your wallet and someone else has taken a fiver out of your wallet who has contributed to the amount of money in your wallet In a positive way?

 

[skybluetony176]

I replied to your post. Take a look. I even quoted your post.

So how about a proper reply?

I’ve given you a proper reply. My point is you can’t have it both ways. You’ve 100% made the same point. You’ve agreed with me without even realising it. Well done.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Just something I came across today, does it have any relevance here? Either way what do you read from this

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The graphic could be a bit confusing given the title but from that graph it says migrants from the European Economic Area (the vast majority of which are EU members) help reduce public sector borrowing.

However, migrants from outside the EEA (and thus something that Brexit will make no practical difference to) massively increase public sector borrowing.

So the migrants which the UK has control of via UK laws to refuse entry to are the ones increasing borrowing the most. Those largely that have freedom of movement via the EU reduce borrowing.

 

[Grendel]

So if someone puts a fiver in your wallet and someone else has taken a fiver out of your wallet who has contributed to the amount of money in your wallet In a positive way?

Depends if you have to don’t have to put £6 back in to provide infrastructure to support the family of the guy who has given the fiver

 

[Grendel]

I’ve given you a proper reply. My point is you can’t have it both ways. You’ve 100% made the same point. You’ve agreed with me without even realising it. Well done.

Looking forward to Halloween Tony?

 

[skybluetony176]

Depends if you have to don’t have to put £6 back in to provide infrastructure to support the family of the guy who has given the fiver

Surely the £6 is a given for both EU and non EU migrants in that scenario. In which case the EU migrant has had a pound out of your wallet whereas the non EU migrant has had £11. I thought you were supposed to be clever.

 

[skybluetony176]

Looking forward to Halloween Tony?

Every year. We have a party for friends and family, the kids love it. You? I’m guessing you’ll be sitting at home on your own feeling lonely as usual.