The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (127 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Yes, he'd be happy with one because he knows he'd have a good chance of winning a GE.
...that's democracy for you.

On the other hand Corbyn's been telling us for the last year that he wants one, so it's got to be VONC now or never.

At least you admit you’ll fall for the trick.

I mean, that’s something.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ruth Davidson to resign as Scottish Tory leader. Must be glad Scottish votes helped the Tories get over the line in 2017

 

[Grendel]

Ruth Davidson to resign as Scottish Tory leader. Must be glad Scottish votes helped the Tories get over the line in 2017

Dribbling publicity seeking liberal. Good riddance

 

[shmmeee]

Amazing that as the charlatans ride roughshod over democracy we’re critiquing a previous labour leader.


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People are depressingly easy to control.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Dribbling publicity seeking liberal. Good riddance

Lol she's taken the Tories to firm 2nd place in Scotland

 

[Ian1779]

Lol she's taken the Tories to firm 2nd place in Scotland

Not for much longer....

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Too right!

50:50 vote is a mandate for a classic British fudge that leaves no one happy.

People’s biases are never clearer than when they criticise Corbyns Brexit policy. He’s shit at a lot but got that spot on. Sadly the country wants a zero sum game.

Must respectfully disagree on that, it would have been suicidal.

 

[Grendel]

Lol she's taken the Tories to firm 2nd place in Scotland

She can spend more time on have I got news for you

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not for much longer....

I don't see who is going to get the SNP out then as the pro-UK vote is split 3 ways. In the constituency I used to live in the SNP guy got re-elected by 2(!) votes for this reason alone.

 

[Grendel]

Not for much longer....

I think the Labour Party in Scotland are equally unhappy at the unholy alliance Corbyn is trying to form with Sturgeon

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

She can spend more time on have I got news for you

Who should replace her then?

 

[Sick Boy]

She can spend more time on have I got news for you

Hopefully with your hero soon as well.

 

[djr8369]

She can spend more time on have I got news for you

Like Johnson did?


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[shmmeee]

Must respectfully disagree on that, it would have been suicidal.

Not talking politically. As I say both sides want the most extreme outcome (including me), but objectively that’s the right result IMO

 

[Astute]

Extraordinary. Whatever your view on Brexit surely suspending the commons is a reversion to a historic form of politics that belongs in the past. Disgusting.


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I had to laugh when MP's called it an affront to democracy. If this is true what do you call MP's going against the wishes of the electorate?

Some of them need a total reality check. They might want what is best. But they don't like being ignored yet ignore the majority.

 

[djr8369]

I had to laugh when MP's called it an affront to democracy. If this is true what do you call MP's going against the wishes of the electorate?

Some of them need a total reality check. They might want what is best. But they don't like being ignored yet ignore the majority.

Why did you laugh when it clearly is?

It’s about time you showed some of your self proclaimed ability to see both sides.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I had to laugh when MP's called it an affront to democracy. If this is true what do you call MP's going against the wishes of the electorate?

Some of them need a total reality check. They might want what is best. But they don't like being ignored yet ignore the majority.

Hopefully you laughed at G calling the Commons the heart of our democracy then supporting the Prime Minister suspending it

 

[shmmeee]

I had to laugh when MP's called it an affront to democracy. If this is true what do you call MP's going against the wishes of the electorate?

Some of them need a total reality check. They might want what is best. But they don't like being ignored yet ignore the majority.

We have a representative democracy. It’s literally impossible for elected representatives to go against the will of the people.

If the will of the people was hard Brexit, May wouldn’t have lost her majority

 

[djr8369]

We have a representative democracy. It’s literally impossible for elected representatives to go against the will of the people.

It’s like banging your head on a wall. Good luck.




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[Astute]

I think Grendel is correct though. It should be a no confidence vote (not some dodgy unprecedented parliamentary manoeuvre).

I think this will flush out positions ie No confidence vote. Either a government of national unity (without corbyn), an election or a stronger position for Johnson to negotiate with the EU.

People need to remember article 50 was passed by a significant majority in the house. The withdrawal agreement which would have avoided a ‘No Deal’ was rejected three times. MPs took control and tried to offer up alternatives, none of which had a majority. As I said earlier they’ve been a disgrace

But BJ could ignore the result of a no confidence vote if it went against him and call an election himself. This could be designed to take us past the leaving date.

 

[Grendel]

Why did you laugh when it clearly is?

It’s about time you showed some of your self proclaimed ability to see both sides.


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Parliament have failed in their commitment to honour a result 83% were elected on. Their latest grubby attempt is to try and rip up centuries of parliament sovereignty and take decisions away from government - oddly you seem happy with this

Johnson is now at least focusing minds.

 

[Grendel]

But BJ could ignore the result of a no confidence vote if it went against him and call an election himself. This could be designed to take us past the leaving date.

Well Andrew Neil believes this but Tony knows better than the famed political correspondent it seems

 

[skybluetony176]

Just been confirmed on Five Live Tony that Johnson can delay post October 31 Tony. It’s amazing you know more than Pinaar and Andrew Neil who also has said it. Shall I tweet Andrew and say there is a bloke called Skybluetony who knows more than him?

Not under the circumstances that you were claiming. As your own link told you. I don’t know more than them and have never claimed to. I do claim to pay attention to the details whether that’s on five live or in a BBC article you linked assuming it confirmed the scenario you were claiming to be right when actually if you paid attention to the details it confirmed that you were wrong. He cannot dictate the timeline if he loses a vote of no confidence in the government. At the end of the 14 day period of no one can form a government that’s approved by parliament whether Boris, Corbyn or Screaming Lord Such is presenting it it’s an automatic GE as confirmed in your own link. I can’t say I heard the five live coverage you’re talking about but given your recent history of failure to understand the details in your own link I’m going to take it for granted that the conversation was beyond you, you put two and two together, came up with eleventy billion and are now misrepresenting what was actually said.

 

[Astute]

We have a representative democracy. It’s literally impossible for elected representatives to go against the will of the people.

If the will of the people was hard Brexit, May wouldn’t have lost her majority

So why are they trying to stop Brexit then?

 

[skybluetony176]

He's using pork pies, shower heads and cauliflowers as bargaining tools. This is the best the clown can do?

Pigs ears. Apparently we can double our sales of pigs ears to China as we’ll no longer have to put a ring through one of the ears. Of course we’ll have to start importing pigs ears from the EU to keep the pet shops stocked as currently the ones you buy there for your dog are the ones that have the ring through.

 

[Grendel]

Not under the circumstances that you were claiming. As your own link told you. I don’t know more than them and have never claimed to. I do claim to pay attention to the details whether that’s on five live or in a BBC article you linked assuming it confirmed the scenario you were claiming to be right when actually if you paid attention to the details it confirmed that you were wrong. He cannot dictate the timeline if he loses a vote of no confidence in the government. At the end of the 14 day period of no one can form a government that’s approved by parliament whether Boris, Corbyn or Screaming Lord Such is presenting it it’s an automatic GE as confirmed in your own link. I can’t say I heard the five live coverage you’re talking about but given your recent history of failure to understand the details in your own link I’m going to take it for granted that the conversation was beyond you, you put two and two together, came up with eleventy billion and are now misrepresenting what was actually said.

Tony the parliament act specifically gives Johnson as the sitting PM the ability to dictate the timing - this has been discussed by many experts and there is not one who I have heard concurring with you

Genuinely you need to get these parties in a room with you and tell them they can force Johnson to hold an election in October as you are an expert in UK law

Seriously do it, you will be s national hero and save the country from a hard Brexit

 

[djr8369]

Parliament have failed in their commitment to honour a result 83% were elected on. Their latest grubby attempt is to try and rip up centuries of parliament sovereignty and take decisions away from government - oddly you seem happy with this

Johnson is now at least focusing minds.

This is desperate. You’re floundering. Look at the cognitive dissonance you’re employing to try and make this seem right.

Parliament legislating is ripping up parliamentary sovereignty but parliament being denied a voice isn’t. Remarkable.




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[skybluetony176]

So why are they trying to stop Brexit then?

Hard brexit. Which is not the manifesto May was elected on. She was elected on a manifesto of getting a deal. Labour also stood on a manifesto of getting a deal. Did any party actually stand on a manifesto of no deal and win a seat?

 

[Astute]

Why are Tony, Brighton and co avoiding this simple basic fact?

They always have. Then gang up on anyone who dares to sgow them to be wrong.

 

[djr8369]

So why are they trying to stop Brexit then?

They’re trying to stop no deal as the vote was won on gaining a better deal. Even the government accept no deal would be damaging. A good deal would have made it through the house.


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[Grendel]

This is desperate. You’re floundering. Look at the cognitive dissonance you’re employing to try and make this seem right.

Parliament legislating is ripping up parliamentary sovereignty but parliament being denied a voice isn’t. Remarkable.




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Genuinely are you dumb? The government is responsible for delivering acts of parliament

What is being suggested is beyond precedent whereas suspending parliament is not. Also again it’s a 5 day suspension and there is nothing, nothing to prevent a no confidence motion being passed and Corbyn being installed on a temporary basis to extend the Brexit date and then call a general election.

That is the democratic process but instead he is trying to usurp centuries of parliament and force a government to pass a bill it will reject. It has no legal basis to even do this - I do not even see how the law can work anyway

Johnson will bring the deal back to parliament soon or will ask permission to call an election when they return in October - I wonder what your wonderful democratic friends will do then

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony the parliament act specifically gives Johnson as the sitting PM the ability to dictate the timing - this has been discussed by many experts and there is not one who I have heard concurring with you

Genuinely you need to get these parties in a room with you and tell them they can force Johnson to hold an election in October as you are an expert in UK law

Seriously do it, you will be s national hero and save the country from a hard Brexit

I’m only quoting your own evidence. You presented it as fact not me. Did you actually read it past the headline? The devil is in the details and you seem to be lacking an eye for that. Go back and read your own evidence. Twice, at least. Then give it an hour or two to digest, then read again.

 

[Grendel]

They’re trying to stop no deal as the vote was won on gaining a better deal. Even the government accept no deal would be damaging. A good deal would have made it through the house.


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Ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They always have. Then gang up on anyone who dares to sgow them to be wrong.

Lol G has claimed:

• There is only 1 way to achieve an early general election
• The Queen has no ability to stop proroguing of Parliament
• The Lords and monarch have no scrutiny over legislation from the Commons
• The Commons represents our democracy but Johnson is right to suspend it so he can force through Brexit

Of course you'll pick him up on these claims.

 

[djr8369]

Genuinely are you dumb? The government is responsible for delivering acts of parliament

What is being suggested is beyond precedent whereas suspending parliament is not. Also again it’s a 5 day suspension and there is nothing, nothing to prevent a no confidence motion being passed and Corbyn being installed on a temporary basis to extend the Brexit date and then call a general election.

That is the democratic process but instead he is trying to usurp centuries of parliament and force a government to pass a bill it will reject. It has no legal basis to even do this - I do not even see how the law can work anyway

Johnson will bring the deal back to parliament soon or will ask permission to call an election when they return in October - I wonder what your wonderful democratic friends will do then

Precedent is hardly relevant in unprecedented times. He is using one process to run down the clock and deny another.


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