The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (75 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Irrespective of the paper and its background... This is what will happen

'Never vote Corbyn!' Even mining town Castleford switching Tory in fury at Brexit betrayal

 

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[chiefdave]

Most constituencies in England voted leave. Remain was mainly London and the south. Mainly Tory areas. The polls have all shown more willing to vote Tory since BJ took over and Corbyn went against everything. This doesn't look good for Labour. If it wasn't true Bliar wouldn't have been advising against going for a GE and Corbyn would have taken the chance.

How confident can we be on the reliability of polling given the mess they've made of predicting recent votes?

There's a strong sense of deja vu here. May called an election as Corbyn was going to cause a collapse in the Labour vote and look at the mess that caused.

I know its only one person but my Mum, now in her 70s, is the archetypal believes everything she reads in the Daily Mail Conservative voter. She always votes and has always voted Conservative. She intends to vote Labour this time as, in her words, the Conservatives can't be trusted.

 

[Grappa]

Interesting...

 

[RegTheDonk]

A harder proposition, but I think the Lib Dem’s have lost a bit of momentum with Swinson taking too long to ‘join’ the rebel alliance. Plus there is a very real prospect she will lose her seat.

Commitment to a PV may bring some back because of the domestic policy offer.

I hope she has a mauling and loses her seat Ian - this woman and her party are the most undemocratic Lib Democrats I can remember. Despite saying they would honor the ref, they now tout "bollocks to brexit" and openly say they want to reverse the deomcratic vote. At least they are up front about putting two fingers up to the elecorate.

She was on 5Live this morning going on about there's no mandate for a no deal. Agreed - but there's certainly no mandate for a complete 180 Jo.

 

[Grendel]

I thought John Redwood was dead until I saw him the other night on TV

 

[Grendel]

Just had a thought. Us remoamers can no longer claim that the leave campaign was all bullshit. We have took back control and Parliaments sovereignty has been protected. Just like they promised. I mean it was against their will but fairs fair, it’s no longer all bullshit.

They haven’t took control as they are refusing to allow the Brexit government to leave office.

 

[skybluetony176]

but there's certainly no mandate for a complete 180 Jo.

I think you’re confusing manifesto for mandate. She’s seeking a mandate through her manifesto. Not nearly the same thing.

 

[skybluetony176]

They haven’t took control as they are refusing to allow the Brexit government to leave office.

That’s the very definition of Parliament taking back control. As per the wishes of leavers apparently. Today should be a celebration for you, two of Boris’ promises have been delivered. Not by him but still. Stop acting like you’re at a funeral.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Mind you I suppose remainers treat for acting in total distain for their fellow countrymen and women for 3 years will be they get to have a majority parliament made up of centre to far right politicians for the next few years.... Enjoy

You've worked hard for it

It already is

 

[fernandopartridge]

Guy fawkes had the right idea

This is sovereignty friend

 

[Astute]

How confident can we be on the reliability of polling given the mess they've made of predicting recent votes?

There's a strong sense of deja vu here. May called an election as Corbyn was going to cause a collapse in the Labour vote and look at the mess that caused.

I know its only one person but my Mum, now in her 70s, is the archetypal believes everything she reads in the Daily Mail Conservative voter. She always votes and has always voted Conservative. She intends to vote Labour this time as, in her words, the Conservatives can't be trusted.

It is more than just the polls though. Labour strongholds voted for Brexit. The Labour party is trying to stop Brexit happening.

 

[skybluetony176]

Oh brother where art thou

PM's brother quits as Tory MP and minister

 

[skybluetony176]

It is more than just the polls though. Labour strongholds voted for Brexit. The Labour party is trying to stop Brexit happening.

The Labour Party is trying to stop a no deal brexit happening. Stick to the facts please like you claim you always do.

 

[Grendel]

The Labour Party is trying to stop a no deal brexit happening. Stick to the facts please like you claim you always do.

No it isn’t it’s trying to stop it altogether

 

[Sick Boy]

So if I liked a post which included saying that BJ is doing an amazing job what would you say?

And if you know that May didn't do an amazing job why didn't you comment about it?

In that case you’ve full on endorsed the very pro leave posts that I quoted the other day.

 

[Astute]

The Labour Party is trying to stop a no deal brexit happening. Stick to the facts please like you claim you always do.

Most MP's are trying to stop Brexit from happening. But most don't have the bottle to come out with it outright. All they do is vote everything down unless it delays Brexit. And this is MP's from all sides other than the so called Brexit party.

The difference between Labour and the Tories is one has a leader saying he wants to take us out.

Then you have this from the other one. And yes it contradicts what you say. But who has said it?

Europe needs to change... but I am voting to stay: Corbyn's full speech on the EU - LabourList

 

[Astute]

In that case you’ve full on endorsed the very pro leave posts that I quoted the other day.

In what way is that?

You liked a post saying May did an amazing job. But you always wait looking for a post from me where you can twist my words.

So as I asked you what would you say if I liked a post saying BJ is doing an amazing job?

 

[Grendel]

The Labour Party stance is ridiculous. It’s to negotiate a better deal then have a referendum and recommend remain in that referendum

There’s clearly a lot of effort going to be made in that negotiation

 

[fernandopartridge]

The Labour Party stance is ridiculous. It’s to negotiate a better deal then have a referendum and recommend remain in that referendum

There’s clearly a lot of effort going to be made in that negotiation

It's called planning for eventualities, if the subsequent referendum result is leave then there is a deal in place.

 

[Grendel]

It's called planning for eventualities, if the subsequent referendum result is leave then there is a deal in place.

On the Andrew Neil show last night the labour guy was saying they’d recommend staying so in other words the deal they will negotiate will be one to get a remain vote

In the end at least the election now will be a straight choice between the two camps

 

[skybluetony176]

No it isn’t it’s trying to stop it altogether

Wipe your tears. The people that fronted the Trojan horse Brexit campaigns that promised an orderly withdrawal from the EU while clearly secretly wanted a no deal disorderly withdrawal have exposed themselves for the charlatans they are. Labour’s policy is to deliver what was campaigned for. Grow up and deal with it.

 

[skybluetony176]

The Labour Party stance is ridiculous. It’s to negotiate a better deal then have a referendum and recommend remain in that referendum

There’s clearly a lot of effort going to be made in that negotiation

How do you think Boris’ negotiations are going? They’re working very hard on it apparently and the could show (former) Party members and standing MP’s the details but they won’t.

 

[Grendel]

Wipe your tears. The people that fronted the Trojan horse Brexit campaigns that promised an orderly withdrawal from the EU while clearly secretly wanted a no deal disorderly withdrawal have exposed themselves for the charlatans they are. Labour’s policy is to deliver what was campaigned for. Grow up and deal with it.

Er I want a general election Tony so the people can make a choice. Labours policy is to betray the voters in the northern cities and remain

 

[Grendel]

How do you think Boris’ negotiations are going? They’re working very hard on it apparently and the could show (former) Party members and standing MP’s the details but they won’t.

Again Tony let’s see what the people think in a general election

 

[fernandopartridge]

Er I want a general election Tony so the people can make a choice. Labours policy is to betray the voters in the northern cities and remain

These northern cities all voted remain: Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, York

 

[Grendel]

These northern cities all voted remain: Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, York

The majority of northern labour held constituencies did not

 

[RegTheDonk]

I think you’re confusing manifesto for mandate. She’s seeking a mandate through her manifesto. Not nearly the same thing.

lol...fair enough, I know the difference but perhaps haven't worded my thoughts correctly. I'm saying "mandate" because they are using it so much to justify their actions. If the terminology is incorrect, I'll appreciate your putting me right while I try to get across these couple of points:

They have "bollocks to brexit" as their slogan. Luciana Berger has jumped ship to her party today, saying they are "the strongest party to stop brexit". So clearly they have nailed their colours to the mast.

They will vote against no deal (or any deal) because they want to stop Brexit, and use "no mandate" as a reason.

However...

IF there was a vote to scrap Brexit tomorrow - would they vote against it, as clearly there is "no mandate" to stop Brexit.

That's why this is so frustrating - they bang on about "no madate" because it suits them - but ignore the actual result.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The majority of northern labour held constituencies did not

Make your mind up

 

[skybluetony176]

I think leavers need to consider their original motives for voting leave when voting in a snap general election. Should it happen.

If you voted leave hoping for the so so called clean break, WTO, hard brexit or whatever you want to call it then fair enough you have a straight choice between the Brexit Party and Boris’ New Conservative party.

If you voted leave expecting the campaigned for orderly withdrawal promised but have since changed your mind and would now prefer a clean break etc. Brexit, it’s your right to change your mind as much as the next leaver or remainer and again you have a straight choice between the Brexit Party and New Conservatives.

If you voted leave expecting the campaigned for orderly withdrawal promised and still expect the orderly withdrawal promised then you have some soul searching to do. If you haven’t changed your mind I can’t see how you can vote anyone but labour as they’re clearly the only party still offering what both the official and unofficial leave campaigns campaigned for.

 

[skybluetony176]

Again Tony let’s see what the people think in a general election

If Boris truly wants to put it to the people then he needs to either get serious about his negotiations and show his hand to the negotiators and put forward this fabled proposal that he could show them but won’t and agree a deal with them, or come clean, say it’s a hard brexit or remain and then put either to a non advisory legally binding referendum. It’s so easy he won’t do it. He’s trying to con a hard brexit and shame on you for supporting him in that con.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Wipe your tears.

hahahaha I just love your gloating triumphalism of the last couple of days.

Let's see who's crying in a few months time.

 

[skybluetony176]

hahahaha I just love your gloating triumphalism of the last couple of days.

Let's see who's crying in a few months time.

This week has been a magnificent week for democracy and it’s also happened on the terms of the leave campaign. The reality is we should all be winners this week regardless of what you voted in the referendum, there shouldn’t be an opportunity for gloating from either remainers or leavers but when some leavers start using words like betrayal and acting like they’re at a funeral then they invite gloating in my opinion.

 

[Grendel]

These northern cities all voted remain: Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, York

Many constituencies exist in each city

How did different constituencies vote in the 2016 EU referendum?

 

[Grendel]

I think leavers need to consider their original motives for voting leave when voting in a snap general election. Should it happen.

If you voted leave hoping for the so so called clean break, WTO, hard brexit or whatever you want to call it then fair enough you have a straight choice between the Brexit Party and Boris’ New Conservative party.

If you voted leave expecting the campaigned for orderly withdrawal promised but have since changed your mind and would now prefer a clean break etc. Brexit, it’s your right to change your mind as much as the next leaver or remainer and again you have a straight choice between the Brexit Party and New Conservatives.

If you voted leave expecting the campaigned for orderly withdrawal promised and still expect the orderly withdrawal promised then you have some soul searching to do. If you haven’t changed your mind I can’t see how you can vote anyone but labour as they’re clearly the only party still offering what both the official and unofficial leave campaigns campaigned for.

Labour want to remain Tony that is their policy

 

[djr8369]

hahahaha I just love your gloating triumphalism of the last couple of days.

Let's see who's crying in a few months time.

To be fair remainers have faced language like this constantly for three years. You can hardly now criticise it when it’s semi-ironically thrown back.


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