The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (45 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The point is the student population is the most fickle - 50% voted Lib Dem in 2010 and immediately switched allegiance when they lied about their commitment and then swarmed to Corbyn the next free tuition Pied Piper
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So why was the second and third highest proportion of student votes for parties that gave students nothing? Whereas the party that offered them the most was fourth? Or is this 'students are short termist who only go for whoever offers them the most now' another sweeping generalisation that's just blatantly untrue
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So why was the second and third highest proportion of student votes for parties that gave students nothing? Whereas the party that offered them the most was fourth? Or is this 'students are short termist who only go for whoever offers them the most now' another sweeping generalisation that's just blatantly untrue
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Which party offered the most?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So where are you getting 50% of the population in that age group is going into Higher Education. I know the numbers, I’ve quoted them as I’ve already told you from the source in the link. What I’m asking is how you’ve equated that to be 50% of the population between the ages of 18-24.
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How many 18-24 year olds are there in this country?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
It’s irrelevant. You’re clearly not understanding the data in front of you.
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It’s 5.2 million. How many undergraduates are in university in university degrees? Do we agree 1.6 million - oddly enough 30%
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
The thing with that law is all they'd need to do is set up a new company and sell the land to it. Then the new company can have it for the same length of time before they do the process again. Legally the owner of the land changes, in reality it's the same people in control. They can sit on the land in perpetuity effectively.
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If there’s a will of course there’s a way.

Regarding the point on border control, as I’ve said I don’t doubt that we as a country have been lax out of choice. I don’t know how much is true about the Blair migration conspiracy (ie wanting to change the make up of the electorate) but either way since then consecutive governments appear to have had limited will in controlling our borders. Also, I’ve never been able to get my head around having total freedom of movement from the EU but then proper visa/points type based system for skilled workers outside of the EU.

My personal belief is that it should be a country's own choice and nobody else’s....based on what the country needs and what the infrastructure and public services can handle. I’m all for freedom of movement but only to a point (for example I’d have accepted a continued freedom for say under 24 or 25s as part of the negotiations) but after than it’s got to be a decision for the country.

Its no coincidence that the reduction in available labour (less EU migrants) has lead to a bigger increase in wages since 16/17. That’s another dynamic as you’ve got big business (wanting cheap and plentiful labour) and a lot on the left (wanting better pay and conditions) both wanting remain. As I’ve said before it’s a funny old world brexit.

Again, like everything, people have to weigh up the pros and cons. But it’s a lot harder to generate consistently higher wage increases and cheaper house prices if you have high net migration (just on basic supply and demand). So, that’s a call for the young to make. I think many would still go for the freedom of being in the EU but then again, they have got to be a bit more understanding of the ramifications of that decision.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
We agree now as it is I who said 30% all along. So you’re correcting your earlier statement of 50%?
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No because of post grad courses and repeat courses from drop outs and non university part time courses
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
No because of post grad courses and repeat courses from drop outs and non university part time courses
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So you’re dismissing your own linked data and your own interpretation of your data. You’ve now disagreed with me, agreed with me and are now disagreeing with me again just a matter of minutes after agreeing with me. How do you reason with that? FFS, pick a story and stick to it will you.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
Saw noises of a north of Ireland only backstop - I expect this will ultimately be that substituting the backstop in the existing WA.
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Yeah, saw that as well. Doesn’t feel quite right to me to be honest so I hope it’s not true.

It’s a strange one though as apparently a lot in NI and Ireland would be happy with that solution....just not the DUP (understandably)

I think it has wider issues for the union though and Sturgeon will be all over it when pushing for independence (I’ve talked about strange dynamics above....there’s another one....SNP wanting to leave the UK but wanting to remain in the EU, which is by no means guaranteed as an independent country, and even if it was, likely they would have to join the Euro something the SNP have never accepted as far as I’m aware)
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Is this going to be the same U turn May made after meeting with the DUP and discovering that they wouldn’t accept a border in the Irish Sea?
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That was ridiculous. Watching the BBC doc on Brexit and Barniers teams reaction....not our country’s finest moment !

Why wouldn’t you just have squared any wording with the DUP first?

It’s like the WA though. It should have been put to Parliament before being finalised (If it needed their consent, which it did)
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, saw that as well. Doesn’t feel quite right to me to be honest so I hope it’s not true.

It’s a strange one though as apparently a lot in NI and Ireland would be happy with that solution....just not the DUP (understandably)

I think it has wider issues for the union though and Sturgeon will be all over it when pushing for independence (I’ve talked about strange dynamics above....there’s another one....SNP wanting to leave the UK but wanting to remain in the EU, which is by no means guaranteed as an independent country, and even if it was, likely they would have to join the Euro something the SNP have never accepted as far as I’m aware)
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I think that most in the north would be happy with it apart from the unionists, who would probably then finally realise that the government doesn’t care about them.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
I think that most in the north would be happy with it apart from the unionists, who would probably then finally realise that the government doesn’t care about them.
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To be fair the conservatives (and unionist party) do by and large, care about the union. Not sure there’s much love lost with DUP though
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So you’re dismissing your own linked data and your own interpretation of your data. You’ve now disagreed with me, agreed with me and are now disagreeing with me again just a matter of minutes after agreeing with me. How do you reason with that? FFS, pick a story and stick to it will you.
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?. I was building the figures up by type of education. I said 44% not 50% and that’s from the guardian article that says 49% will have higher education by the time they are 30. There is an age breakdown of the stats that show around 85% of those educated by the time they are 30 are in the 18 - 24 bracket so therefore I have assumed 85% of the 49% which is 44%
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Might have to. I wonder if labour would whip to vote down a revised WA though ? If they do, still no Brexit and impasse remains
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It will be voted down. The labour conference will end with remain as their stance
 
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