The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (28 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Are you thinking that he might reinstate the rebels?

No I’m not, I think he’d gamble on it being voted through by Labour. If not then no deal and a GE.

 

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[Sick Boy]

It will be voted down. The labour conference will end with remain as their stance

I’m not so sure they’ll come out as a fully fledged party of remain

 

[Grendel]

No I’m not, I think he’d gamble on it being voted through by Labour. If not then no deal and a GE.

Labour will reject it

 

[Sick Boy]

Labour will reject it

Then I think it would get interesting as I’m not sure what would happen, I think the country would crash out without a deal.

 

[Grendel]

Then I think it would get interesting as I’m not sure what would happen, I think the country would crash out without a deal.

Why?

There are plenty of options available to labour - they could do a no confidence motion and throw all sorts of rewards to get support and form s government . Referendum to the Scots, ministerial positions for the Lib Dem’s and crucially a second referendum on this deal or remain

 

[Grendel]

I see the Lib Dem’s will have revoke article 50 as their manifesto headline

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting article in the Guardian

Johnson can’t escape the clutches of May’s zombie Brexit deal | Rafael Behr

 

[Sick Boy]

Why?

There are plenty of options available to labour - they could do a no confidence motion and throw all sorts of rewards to get support and form s government . Referendum to the Scots, ministerial positions for the Lib Dem’s and crucially a second referendum on this deal or remain

Not sure with JC as leader

 

[CCFCSteve]

Interesting article in the Guardian

Johnson can’t escape the clutches of May’s zombie Brexit deal | Rafael Behr

It is an interesting article although possibly a little unfair. It’s suggesting at the end that Johnson has reconsidered ‘no deal’, which isnt true. Two things, firstly, Parliament have scuppered his ability to pursue this option (at least for now). Secondly, I’ve said all along that I don’t believe this was his preferred option but if needs must on the 31 Oct, if it was the only option available, he would go ahead with it.

Ps there are other elements of the article I agree with though (wants to be liked and whatever people say about being racist etc, he is no Trump)

 

[fernandopartridge]

It is an interesting article although possibly a little unfair. It’s suggesting at the end that Johnson has reconsidered ‘no deal’, which isnt true. Two things, firstly, Parliament have scuppered his ability to pursue this option (at least for now). Secondly, I’ve said all along that I don’t believe this was his preferred option but if needs must on the 31 Oct, if it was the only option available, he would go ahead with it.

Ps there are other elements of the article I agree with though (wants to be liked and whatever people say about being racist etc, he is no Trump)

The 31 October is an arbitrary date

 

[stupot07]

The 31 October is an arbitrary date

A self imposed arbitrary date at that.

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[CCFCSteve]

The 31 October is an arbitrary date

Not really, it’s the one the EU gave us

 

[skybluetony176]

What’s the betting we cancel HS2 and spend it trying to build a Brexit bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland instead.

Exclusive: Johnson considering building bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not really, it’s the one the EU gave us

It's still arbitrary in as much as it was plucked out of the air

 

[skybluetony176]

And it’s predicted that any gains the Tories get from labour they’ll lose to SNP and Lib Dem’s elsewhere in a general election meaning hung parliament and the same number of seats the Tories currently has.

General election may not end Brexit impasse, poll analysis suggests

A legally binding Second referendum with No deal or May’s err I mean Boris’ deal vs remain seems it will be the only way to move forward with this.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If there’s a will of course there’s a way.

Regarding the point on border control, as I’ve said I don’t doubt that we as a country have been lax out of choice. I don’t know how much is true about the Blair migration conspiracy (ie wanting to change the make up of the electorate) but either way since then consecutive governments appear to have had limited will in controlling our borders. Also, I’ve never been able to get my head around having total freedom of movement from the EU but then proper visa/points type based system for skilled workers outside of the EU.

My personal belief is that it should be a country's own choice and nobody else’s....based on what the country needs and what the infrastructure and public services can handle. I’m all for freedom of movement but only to a point (for example I’d have accepted a continued freedom for say under 24 or 25s as part of the negotiations) but after than it’s got to be a decision for the country.

Its no coincidence that the reduction in available labour (less EU migrants) has lead to a bigger increase in wages since 16/17. That’s another dynamic as you’ve got big business (wanting cheap and plentiful labour) and a lot on the left (wanting better pay and conditions) both wanting remain. As I’ve said before it’s a funny old world brexit.

Again, like everything, people have to weigh up the pros and cons. But it’s a lot harder to generate consistently higher wage increases and cheaper house prices if you have high net migration (just on basic supply and demand). So, that’s a call for the young to make. I think many would still go for the freedom of being in the EU but then again, they have got to be a bit more understanding of the ramifications of that decision.

Of course if there's a will there's a way. But that works both ways. Very often legislation is brought in and before long someone has found a loophole. It's why the tax laws are so convulted. We get business people saying "simplify the tax laws" but the reason they're not simplified is because someone somewhere has got around it and they've had to amend the legislation to close the loophole. It's not uncommon to have legal people draft the legislation and as soon as their contractly allowed they join a big business and explain who the law is set up and how to avoid it. Nice work if you can get it.

With this I can see it going through court as a restriction of trade.

I agree that we should be able to have more of a say in EU borders, but I'm not entirely sure we don't, just that we don't use tje powers available to us. Like with a number of things parliament say 'we will pass legislation' when there is already legislation on the books covering it. Why not try actually applying the law rather than creating new ones. Also with allowing freedom of movement for an age group or whatever that as well is dangerous because they could then apply for spouses, kids or even parents to join them. There are some instances, such as refugees, that my view on many on here would consider to be quite right wing (for me if you're genuinely in fear of your life due to persecution then having to agree to stay in less than ideal, but safe, living conditions while your case is considered and then agreeing to regular checks etc would be a small price to pay.)

 

[fernandopartridge]

I see the most of the bills that might have "strengthened our hand" in negotiation with the EU have fallen because of prorogation. Yet you Tory mugs on here swallow all the shite you're fed.

 

[Astute]

Jesus mate, just post a link to the Express website and save us all the trouble.

Why not just post a link to you saying how May did an amazing job. Everyone disagrees with you but those who shout the loudest agreed with your post. No surprise there.

I want and need remain as much as anyone else. But no way could I even try to pretend to believe the bullshit several on here come out with.

 

[Astute]

It wasn't sticking up for Tony. You were the one that was going on about the maths, so I did the maths and it didn't match your assertion.

Come on then. Explain simply how I was wrong and I will show you.

Tony says 30% go to university. It is much more but lets do the Tony 30%. This leaves 70% that don't go to University. If the votes are bought of those who go to university only 21% of the 70% remaining that didn't go to university are needed to get a majority of the younger voters. This is just 30% of the remaining 70%. So if 70% of those who don't go to university vote against the policies of having students fees paid there is still a majority that vote for it.

Now explain where I am wrong.

 

[Astute]

I see the most of the bills that might have "strengthened our hand" in negotiation with the EU have fallen because of prorogation. Yet you Tory mugs on here swallow all the shite you're fed.

Well done. Good to see you back with another insult.

We are all proud of you.

 

[Astute]

I’m not so sure they’ll come out as a fully fledged party of remain

Labour's deputy leader wants them to be fully remain.

Labour deputy urges Brexit vote before election

The problem with Corbyn is that he just seems to want the exact opposite of whatever the Tories want. But what do they want when some of them are leaving their party because of BJ trying to force Brexit through? So he is trying to keep both remain and leave voters happy.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well done. Good to see you back with another insult.

We are all proud of you.

You're not a Tory are you Mr Neutral?

 

[Astute]

You're not a Tory are you Mr Neutral?

No. I have never voted Tory and never will. And I also don't insult anyone just because they don't agree with myself. It is pathetic how childish many have become over this debacle.

Throwing insults around won't suddenly make people change their minds. If anything it will entrench their views even more.

 

[djr8369]

What’s the betting we cancel HS2 and spend it trying to build a Brexit bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland instead.

Exclusive: Johnson considering building bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland

Why is his answer to everything a fucking bridge?


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[djr8369]

Come on then. Explain simply how I was wrong and I will show you.

Tony says 30% go to university. It is much more but lets do the Tony 30%. This leaves 70% that don't go to University. If the votes are bought of those who go to university only 21% of the 70% remaining that didn't go to university are needed to get a majority of the younger voters. This is just 30% of the remaining 70%. So if 70% of those who don't go to university vote against the policies of having students fees paid there is still a majority that vote for it.

Now explain where I am wrong.

Because what you got picked up on was assuming every young voter who goes to university votes labour.


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[Grendel]

Because what you got picked up on was assuming every young voter who goes to university votes labour.


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Well was it you or dreamer blathering on about not voting green as a proof of self interest

 

[Astute]

Because what you got picked up on was assuming every young voter who goes to university votes labour.


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So are you saying students would vote against not having to pay fees while studying?

If so the younger generation are supposed to vote for policies that are good but not if they are good for themselves.

 

[Astute]

And now it gets very interesting.....

Boris Johnson's suspension of parliament IS unlawful, Scottish judges rule | Daily Mail Online

I kniw it is the Mail. And those who dislike how biased it is won't want to read it. But this is one of the exceptions these same people will enjoy.

A Scottish judge has called the suspension of parliament unlawful.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why is his answer to everything a fucking bridge?


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Arlene Foster may have poured water on this already as Boris apparently promised her a no backstop Brexit yesterday during their meeting.

Then again we are talking about a Boris promise so...

 

[skybluetony176]

So are you saying students would vote against not having to pay fees while studying?

Well almost every university in the country has a conservative association so clearly some do.

 

[Otis]

And now it gets very interesting.....

Boris Johnson's suspension of parliament IS unlawful, Scottish judges rule | Daily Mail Online

I kniw it is the Mail. And those who dislike how biased it is won't want to read it. But this is one of the exceptions these same people will enjoy.

A Scottish judge has called the suspension of parliament unlawful.

Prefer this to be honest.

BBC News - Scottish judges rule Parliament suspension is unlawful
Judges rule Parliament suspension is unlawful

Haven't got enough anti-bacterial gel in the house to deal with the Mail at the moment.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Traitors the lot of them, should be ashamed

 

[SBAndy]

Traitors the lot of them, should be ashamed

Sound bite Dom returns.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Come on then. Explain simply how I was wrong and I will show you.

Tony says 30% go to university. It is much more but lets do the Tony 30%. This leaves 70% that don't go to University. If the votes are bought of those who go to university only 21% of the 70% remaining that didn't go to university are needed to get a majority of the younger voters. This is just 30% of the remaining 70%. So if 70% of those who don't go to university vote against the policies of having students fees paid there is still a majority that vote for it.

Now explain where I am wrong.

Because not all uni students vote Labour. It's about 65% of them. Read back through my original post - it's all there.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Sound bite Dom returns.

Ironic when MPs are moaning about being undemocratic yet are trying to overturn the majority vote, embarrassing