The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (123 Viewers)

[Grendel]

So you’re talking about a very narrow aspect of the employment window then and using it as a broad stroke. Your argument doesn’t stand up for the simple reason you’re trying to weight it with misinformation.

Er no I’m staring a fact and according to you hardly anyone is in the minimum wage so actually the employment impact it will effect the most - according to you - is that sector.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Er no I’m staring a fact and according to you hardly anyone is in the minimum wage so actually the employment impact it will effect the most - according to you - is that sector.

No you’re not. You’re quite deliberately not distinguishing the correlation between age group and minimum wage for that age group. You’re deliberately blurring the facts and when anyone does that the only point you make is that you don’t have a point.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Labour has an issue with anti-semitism, which is complex. Ignorance, a lack of education and yes in a very minute amount of cases - pure and adulterated racism. There is also a massive issue with the fact that lots of Labour members, supporters, MP’s and the leadership openly support Palestine. To ignore this as a factor is missing the issue. There needs to be a comprehensive education program for ALL members and this should also be extended and offered to voters. The same thing needs to happen with Islamaphobia and most certainly needs to happen with the Tories - where the problem of intolerance is even greater.

Labour has an issue with anti-semitism, but much of what is perceived as such it is just criticism of Israeli policy such occupation and disproportionate responses, much of which is justified to some extent or another. The problem is that those who are genuinely anti-Semitic latch onto this to peddle their hatred, which then deflects from the genuine justifiable criticsm.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course there’s also the other points that a decent wage gives people self respect and makes illegitimate means of income less attractive. The potential is there for a far greater impact than just money in people’s pockets.

 

[Grendel]

No you’re not. You’re quite deliberately not distinguishing the correlation between age group and minimum wage for that age group. You’re deliberately blurring the facts and when anyone does that the only point you make is that you don’t have a point.

Er I also said that a 25% increase on those at £7.50 could have detrimental impacts - you said everyone over 18 earns that anyway?

 

[Grendel]

Of course there’s also the other points that a decent wage gives people self respect and makes illegitimate means of income less attractive. The potential is there for a far greater impact than just money in people’s pockets.

Everyone over 18 earns more than £10 Tony you said so

 

[skybluetony176]

Everyone over 18 earns more than £10 Tony you said so

No I didn’t. I said no one I know, I’ve never claimed to know everyone over 18. Any chance you can stick to the facts.

 

[Grendel]

I thought you were fed up of oversubscribed universities full of dumbed down students?

Under 18? I doubt it - also student time jobs will become a thing of the past won’t they? How will they supplement their income to survive? Corbynomics that’s the answer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Everyone over 18 earns more than £10 Tony you said so

Everyone he knows

You’re defending a position that either wants people to continue receiving government support to live, or that incentivises not working in the first place.

 

[Grendel]

I’m really struggling to think of anyone I know who will get a wage rise if minimum wage is increased to £10 an hour and I can’t. Even my nephew who’s 19 left school with minimal qualifications and works in a warehouse stacking boxes gets more .

Classic Tony

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Under 18? I doubt it - also student time jobs will become a thing of the past won’t they? How will they supplement their income to survive? Corbynomics that’s the answer.

The full living wage at present is denied to those under 21...

You know we could always turn this on it’s head and argue for the abolishing of a minimum wage so that everyone can get a job. They’ll earn fuck all but great for business eh

Explain to me why the government should be subsidising low incomes. Also give your thoughts on the BoJo Bridge...

 

[Grendel]

Everyone he knows

You’re defending a position that either wants people to continue receiving government support to live, or that incentivises not working in the first place.

If he made the point and was not attempting to make it a wider point why make it at all?

 

[skybluetony176]

Classic Tony

“I’m really struggling to think of anyone I know”

Classic Grendull.

 

[Grendel]

“I’m really struggling to think of anyone I know”

Classic Grendull.

Unless you are trying to equate that to a larger element of the population why say it all - what was the point you were trying to make?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If he made the point and was not attempting to make it a wider point why make it at all?

Comment on the bridge and I’ll answer that question

 

[Grendel]

The full living wage at present is denied to those under 21...

You know we could always turn this on it’s head and argue for the abolishing of a minimum wage so that everyone can get a job. They’ll earn fuck all but great for business eh

...

Well that’s the process in Italy

Also when you use average £ to euro conversion we are already on a par with France and Germany and ahead of Spain

 

[skybluetony176]

If he made the point and was not attempting to make it a wider point why make it at all?

WTF are you talking about. Under what law am I not allowed to make a specific point unless I’m talking about a wider point.

 

[Grendel]

Comment on the bridge and I’ll answer that question

I have no interest in the bridge. Why would I? We surrendered Ireland really in 1922 and finished the job in the Appeasement process. We should give them a unification referendum and be done with it.

 

[Grendel]

WTF are you talking about. Under what law am I not allowed to make a specific point unless I’m talking about a wider point.

So If I say the majority of people I know don’t like gardening it’s adding value to yhe debate

Swell

 

[skybluetony176]

Unless you are trying to equate that to a larger element of the population why say it all - what was the point you were trying to make?

Hold up. You’ve just tried to use the minimum wage for under 18’s as a broad stroke for the minimum wage rate and now you’re accusing me of some sort of deception. I quite clearly stated my point. I don’t know anyone who will get a wage rise from this. I’ve said it in plain English. Just admit that you got it wrong when you claimed that I said all 18 year olds are on more than minimum wage. Are you not embarrassed by your constant charades you go through instead of admitting that you got wrong?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I have no interest in the bridge. Why would I? We surrendered Ireland really in 1922 and finished the job in the Appeasement process. We should give them a unification referendum and be done with it.

You truly are Victorian aren't you.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well that’s the process in Italy

Also when you use average £ to euro conversion we are already on a par with France and Germany and ahead of Spain

Does that mean they shouldn’t raise minimum wages either?

 

[skybluetony176]

So If I say the majority of people I know don’t like gardening it’s adding value to yhe debate

Swell

No, it means you don’t know many people who like gardening and as a grown up I accept that. We’ve met and I can confirm I hate gardening so it’s not unbelievable that the majority of people you know don’t like gardening. What I wouldn’t do though is twist what you said and claim that you said everyone hates gardening.

 

[Grendel]

Hold up. You’ve just tried to use the minimum wage for under 18’s as a broad stroke for the minimum wage rate and now you’re accusing me of some sort of deception. I quite clearly stated my point. I don’t know anyone who will get a wage rise from this. I’ve said it in plain English. Just admit that you got it wrong when you claimed that I said all 18 year olds are on more than minimum wage. Are you not embarrassed by your constant charades you go through instead of admitting that you got wrong?

Er you got it wrong Tony you said I was wrong when I said the minimum wage wiykd be doubled - is that correct?

I know someone at 21 who was earning close to £100,000 a year

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I have no interest in the bridge. Why would I? We surrendered Ireland really in 1922 and finished the job in the Appeasement process. We should give them a unification referendum and be done with it.

So in summary

1. We should have tried harder to keep Ireland in the union against its will and didn’t use enough military force

2. Business profits matter more than workers having enough to live

3. You have no interest in the PM wanting to spend £15 billion on a pointless bridge even though you regularly accuse the opposition of throwing money away

4. Tony’s mates comprise the whole UK adult population

Give up old man Joe Biden makes more sense

 

[skybluetony176]

I have no interest in the bridge. Why would I? We surrendered Ireland really in 1922 and finished the job in the Appeasement process. We should give them a unification referendum and be done with it.

So if they vote to remain part of the U.K. would you build the bridge?

 

[skybluetony176]

So in summary

1. We should have tried harder to keep Ireland in the union against its will and didn’t use enough military force

2. Business profits matter more than workers having enough to live

3. You have no interest in the PM wanting to spend £15 billion on a pointless bridge even though you regularly accuse the opposition of throwing money away

4. Tony’s mates comprise the whole UK adult population

Give up old man Joe Biden makes more sense

He’s making Diane Abbott look quite the mathematician this morning also.

 

[Astute]

Labour has an issue with anti-semitism, which is complex. Ignorance, a lack of education and yes in a very minute amount of cases - pure and adulterated racism. There is also a massive issue with the fact that lots of Labour members, supporters, MP’s and the leadership openly support Palestine. To ignore this as a factor is missing the issue. There needs to be a comprehensive education program for ALL members and this should also be extended and offered to voters. The same thing needs to happen with Islamaphobia and most certainly needs to happen with the Tories - where the problem of intolerance is even greater.

The problem I have with Ian Austin (and others) is that despite all I’ve said the proportion is tiny within the Labour members (less than 1%) and even within voters it is a tiny minority (albeit much harder to measure). These people are weaponising the problem, they don’t really care about it. If they did they would support the new systems to deal with it after the old ones were found to be unfit for purpose. They’d be involved in the education process... they don’t want to know.
Angela ‘funny tinge’ Smith is a champion of an openly apartheid regime. She was filmed taking money from The Israeli administration to influence and target British politicians (Tory & Labour) - are you telling me these actions are in line with people abhorred by anti-semitism.

He hates the leadership - I get it. Then say what you’d do better, how your ideas are better. He just comes across a bitter angry person that will look for anything to berate Corbyn. He’s left the party for Christ’s sake - that’s how much he cares about Labour.

If you don't like what you see and can't change anything what choice are you left with?

I don't agree with everything said about Corbyn. But is he the person to take us forward? Is he worth defending?

 

[Astute]

G’s maths: £7.50 x 2 = £10

You’re right another £2.50 an hour will send every business to the wall

Easy to say. But how many companies can afford to spend 33% more on pay? Then there is the associated expenses.

Yes £7.50 to £10 is a 33% pay rise.

 

[Ian1779]

If you don't like what you see and can't change anything what choice are you left with?

I don't agree with everything said about Corbyn. But is he the person to take us forward? Is he worth defending?

Maybe his purpose is to be the link to someone that will take it forward. In that case is it worth it?

 

[Grendel]

So in summary

1. We should have tried harder to keep Ireland in the union against its will and didn’t use enough military force

2. Business profits matter more than workers having enough to live

3. You have no interest in the PM wanting to spend £15 billion on a pointless bridge even though you regularly accuse the opposition of throwing money away

4. Tony’s mates comprise the whole UK adult population

Give up old man Joe Biden makes more sense

No

1. The act of partial independence caused significant issues for decades to come. Oddly your Sinn Fein hugging buddies would I’m sure welcome the unification opportunity - especially the shadow chancellor who opposed the GFA

2. It’s emotive drivel. Most Eu countries agree the wage we have is a reasonable balance. It’s a sound bite that will cause misery for many of those it’s supposed to benefit. The last labour government has ruined many working class people’s long term prosperity by raidng the pension pots to reward the indolent in it’s bloating if the welfare state

3. This is a random comment - I don’t get the fixation on it. I suppose at least the indolent May get a job working on it but as I don’t see the point of it i don’t understand the discussion. The real IRA would probably blow it up which would give the gruesome Sinn Fein twosome a giggle so I’d pass

4. Tony’s made a comment to try and be smart. Tony is a fool who spent more time defending UKiP against a racist accusation than ever commenting on football. He tries to sound smart but lacks any style or substance and changes sides to attempt some form of populism.

Ultimately it’s you who sounds utterly ridiculous and is developing a very large chip on your shoulder

The private schooling hasn’t suited you. It’s given you a sense of privilege and entitlement which you do not understand has to be earned

 

[skybluetony176]

Easy to say. But how many companies can afford to spend 33% more on pay? Then there is the associated expenses.

Yes £7.50 to £10 is a 33% pay rise.

How many companies employment is 100% on minimum wage?

 

[Astute]

Businesses will respond by increasing prices. Go and look at the studies and data yourself-what you’re arguing for instead is that welfare should continue to be used to meet the shortfall. The effect of a rise is usually that workers have more to spend and put it back into the economy. Poverty goes down and the cost to the government does also.

Now about the bridge...

So far you have ignored me saying about it sending inflation flying. Wages shoot up = higher prices. Higher prices = higher inflation. Have you got a mortgage? Do you like your cheap mortgage. Because mortgage rates would multiply. And all for a £2.50 an hour pay rise.

Inflation has been kept low for years for a reason. But you champion changing it. A typical blind old Labour plan. Are you too young to remember what happened last time Labour was in power and it happened?

 

[Grendel]

He’s making Diane Abbott look quite the mathematician this morning also.

It’s you that’s struggling Tony - you seem to think £10 is not more than twice £4.35

 

[Astute]

How many companies employment is 100% on minimum wage?

How many skilled workers would want more than unskilled workers?